Forums/Armchair-GM

Will They Regret Trading Hornqvist

Created by: AnalyticsGeek
Initial Creation Date: Nov 26, 2020
Published: Nov 26, 2020 at 3:30
Team: 2020-21 Pittsburgh Penguins
Team Explanation
Though it hasn't been talked about a lot, I feel Hornqvist is gonna have a monster year in Florida next season. If he stays healthy, I bet he can get around 30 goals. He's going to be playing alongside 2 elite playmaking forwards who will be able to get him the puck in scoring areas, plus will see top PP time. I don't really understand why the Penguins didn't give Hornqvist much of an opportunity alongside Crosby over the past 2 seasons. Historically, the Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist line have always done great in terms of generating offence, yet the coach always played inferior guys like Sheary or Simon in that RW position. Honestly if they kept Hornqvist, there would've been no need to give up a 1st and top prospect for Kapanen. They could've used those assets to get an excellent 3C instead.
Trades
PIT
  1. Hörnqvist, Patric
FLA
  1. Matheson, Michael
PIT
  1. Amirov, Rodion [Reserve List]
  2. Hållander, Filip
TOR
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi
PIT
  1. Lowry, Adam
WPG
    2021 1st Round Pick
    Buyouts
    • Jack Johnson: $1,166,667
    Retained Salary Transactions
    • Nick Bjugstad: $2,050,000 (50%)
    Buried
    • Colton Sceviour: $125,000 ($1,200,000)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2021
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    WSH
    ANA
    2022
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    2023
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$81,500,000$79,392,675$0$850,000$2,107,325

    Roster

    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    PIT
    Guentzel, Jake
    $6,000,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 4
    PIT
    Crosby, Sidney
    $8,700,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 5
    FLA
    Hörnqvist, Patric
    $5,300,000
    RW
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    PIT
    Zucker, Jason
    $5,500,000
    LW, RW
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    PIT
    Malkin, Evgeni
    $9,500,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 2
    PIT
    Rust, Bryan
    $3,500,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    PIT
    McCann, Jared
    $2,940,000
    LW, C
    RFA - 2
    WPG
    Lowry, Adam
    $2,916,666
    C
    UFA - 1
    PIT
    Poulin, Samuel
    $894,167
    LW, RW
    RFA - 3
    PIT
    Aston-Reese, Zach
    $1,000,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    PIT
    Blueger, Teddy
    $750,000
    C, LW
    RFA - 1
    PIT
    Tanev, Brandon
    $3,500,000
    RW, LW
    NTC
    UFA - 5
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    PIT
    Dumoulin, Brian
    $4,100,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    PIT
    Letang, Kris
    $7,250,000
    RD
    NMC NTC
    UFA - 2
    PIT
    Jarry, Tristan
    $3,500,000
    G
    UFA - 3
    PIT
    Pettersson, Marcus
    $4,025,175
    LD
    UFA - 5
    PIT
    Marino, John
    $925,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    PIT
    DeSmith, Casey
    $1,250,000
    G
    UFA - 2
    PIT
    Riikola, Juuso
    $1,150,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    PIT
    Ceci, Cody
    $1,250,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    PIT
    Rodrigues, Evan
    $700,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 1
    PIT
    Jankowski, Mark
    $700,000
    LW, C
    RFA - 1
    PIT
    Ruhwedel, Chad
    $700,000
    RD
    UFA - 1

    Special Teams

    Power Play 1
    Hörnqvist, P.
    Crosby, S.
    Poulin, S.
    Letang, K.
    Malkin, E.
    Power Play 2
    Zucker, J.
    McCann, J.
    Guentzel, J.
    Rust, B.
    Marino, J.
    Penalty Kill 1
    Lowry, A.
    Tanev, B.
    Dumoulin, B.
    Letang, K.
    Penalty Kill 2
    Blueger, T.
    Aston-Reese, Z.
    Marino, J.
    Ceci, C.

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    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:46
    #51
    Caps fan idk why
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 8,628
    Likes: 3,187
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    right, he scored 7 goals because he was on the 3rd line and not facing elite comp. You're also assuming he'll last on Sid's wing.
    and guess what, i've watched Matheson play too. He's awful, he has terrible defensive instincts, skates himself into trouble all the time and cant get out of it and he can rarely use his size to his advantage.
    You may not have future Andrew Ladd, but you've got a bottom pairing guy signed to a terrible contract until he's near in his mid 30s


    I’ll give my 2cents here. If Kap scores 25 it’s not bc he’s good it’s bc Sid / Malkin are elite. Rust had elite numbers this year mainly bc Malkin is a fkin monster. Penguins could have easily signed a guy or just kept Kuhun and not wasted a -#15 oa. Also to the guy who said that pick was < kap not true. Leafs drafted maybe one of the biggest sleepers of the draft. That kid is going to be amazing. Remember when people thought Kessel would score 50 goals. In 4 years he broke 30 goals 1x and he’s 3x the player Kap is.
    DartGuy86 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:49
    #52
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 6,439
    Likes: 2,222
    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    I’ll give my 2cents here. If Kap scores 25 it’s not bc he’s good it’s bc Sid / Malkin are elite. Rust had elite numbers this year mainly bc Malkin is a fkin monster. Penguins could have easily signed a guy or just kept Kuhun and not wasted a -#15 oa. Also to the guy who said that pick was < kap not true. Leafs drafted maybe one of the biggest sleepers of the draft. That kid is going to be amazing. Remember when people thought Kessel would score 50 goals. In 4 years he broke 30 goals 1x and he’s 3x the player Kap is.


    if i thought Kap was the type of player who would stick with Sid (or even Geno for that matter) id be comfortable in saying he'd flirt with 25ish goals for the next couple years, but he's just not the type of player who excels with Sid. There is a reason the guys who get massive boosts from him are all grinder type workhorses.
    Capitalfail67 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:50
    #53
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 3,201
    Likes: 1,374
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    Thanks! Hope you like watching a guy skate the puck really fast into the corner a lot!

    Ohhhh and by the way Hallander plays C too!


    The fact you think his ceiling is the same as Kapanens is funny. Even in pittsburgh, everyone projected him to be a 3rd liner at best. TOR got a "meh" prospect on the worst prospect pool in the NHL
    mhockey91 and Pens3lieve liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:53
    #54
    Thread Starter
    Pens were the best
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 5,011
    Likes: 1,636
    Quoting: Theozler
    If I thought they were still top contenders...yes. The fact that they've bombed the last two years makes me think it was worth the risk of an underachieving Matheson. If he can regain that form of a few years ago it allows them to possibly deal dumolin or pettersson for a superior forward to hornqvist which could make them better. Worst case they dont go far in playoffs which was likely the case anyway.


    That’s fair, the Penguins definitely needed a retool after 2 early playoff exits. I just didn’t like the Matheson acquisition since their top 4 defence (Dumo-Letang, Pettersson-Marino) is already set. Matheson will be on the third pair with Riikola which is a waste for his cap hit. The team still needs to sign a legit 3C.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:53
    #55
    Joined: Oct 2020
    Posts: 1,330
    Likes: 454
    Edited Nov 26, 2020 at 6:16
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    you said there were 2 other teams involved in the kapanen hype. One was NJD who was offering the 18th or 19th pick (the devils had the 18th and 20th, so let's just say 18th) and the Pens, who had the 15th over all pick added Hallander.
    so, according to you the offer was a pick 3 spots later and no prospect. If that is what we are going off, the Devils clearly didnt value Kapanen near as much as the Pens did. Now, that leaves us with a mystery 3rd team with no values so we can pretend they did if it helps your argument and the Pens as 2 teams who valued Kapanen that high.


    Google it dude. There was 2 other teams offering a 1st round pick. I don’t know if they were willing to add a prospect or not. Obviously you don’t care to read anything. You can’t even fully understand my posts. It took u twice to understand that post. I forget the other team. Whatever man, you’ll argue about anything. His value was too high?? We’ll 2 other teams gm’s( 3 including ours) didn’t think so. You—we’ll what the pick was 3 spots later. So much difference!! Wow!! You got me!! I’m not arguing with you man, like I said, we’ll see. This is gonna end badly for u. Even more, when Amirov is a bust. He can’t even score in Juniors. Good luck man!! I’m good with the trade!!
    mhockey91 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:53
    #56
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 3,201
    Likes: 1,374
    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    I’ll give my 2cents here. If Kap scores 25 it’s not bc he’s good it’s bc Sid / Malkin are elite. Rust had elite numbers this year mainly bc Malkin is a fkin monster. Penguins could have easily signed a guy or just kept Kuhun and not wasted a -#15 oa. Also to the guy who said that pick was < kap not true. Leafs drafted maybe one of the biggest sleepers of the draft. That kid is going to be amazing. Remember when people thought Kessel would score 50 goals. In 4 years he broke 30 goals 1x and he’s 3x the player Kap is.


    The Crosby/Malkin pumping numbers is not always correct. Yes, it happens. But look at all the wingers who failed playing with them 2. If it were always true, why didnt Simon ever score 10+ goals? Crosby and Malkin can only do so much
    mhockey91 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:54
    #57
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 6,439
    Likes: 2,222
    Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
    The fact you think his ceiling is the same as Kapanens is funny. Even in pittsburgh, everyone projected him to be a 3rd liner at best. TOR got a "meh" prospect on the worst prospect pool in the NHL


    i love how people are thinking the difference between a 2-3rd line tweener (what Kap currently is) and 3rd liner is some sort of massive jump when discussing a prospects ceiling. Of course, now that Kapanen isnt a leaf everyone think's he's a very good 2nd liner or something so that might have something to do with it
    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:54
    #58
    Thread Starter
    Pens were the best
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 5,011
    Likes: 1,636
    Quoting: SevenLeg
    He's overrated as hell. If that's the asking price for him, he'll retire as a Jet. You're better off signing Carl Soderberg for free


    Soderberg played pretty good in 2018/19. But Lowry’s stats prior to last season were insane as well.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:56
    #59
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 3,201
    Likes: 1,374
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    i love how people are thinking the difference between a 2-3rd line tweener (what Kap currently is) and 3rd liner is some sort of massive jump when discussing a prospects ceiling. Of course, now that Kapanen isnt a leaf everyone think's he's a very good 2nd liner or something so that might have something to do with it


    And when he was on the Leafs, Leafs fans were saying he is easily a top 6 winger but blocked by Nylander and Marner. Stop playing stupid, that argument goes both ways
    mhockey91 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:56
    #60
    Joined: Oct 2020
    Posts: 1,330
    Likes: 454
    Here u go. 5:35 u can start!! This is the 1st thing that came up!! Your guys analysis saying 2 other teams were involved and offered a 1st. That was Kapanen’s value. Pittsburgh had to add Hallander. Which like we said, a “C” prospect. You can read your own Leafs insiders stuff to prove that. They even say his ceiling is a bottom 6.

    Nov 26, 2020 at 5:59
    #61
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 6,439
    Likes: 2,222
    Quoting: PGHBOB69
    Google it dude. There was 2 other teams offering a 1st round pick. I don’t know if they were willing to add a prospect or not. Obviously you don’t care to read anything. You can’t even fully understand my posts. It took u twice to understand that post. I forget the other team. Whatever man, you’ll argue about anything. His value was too high?? We’ll 2 other teams gm’s( 3 including ours) didn’t think so. You—we’ll what the pick was 3 spots later. So much difference!! Wow!! You got me!! I’m not arguing with you man, like I see, we’ll see. This is gonna she badly for u. Even more, when Amirov is a bust. He can’t even score in Juniors. Good luck man!! I’m good with the trade!!


    wow, that's a lot right there. You said there were three teams and you cant even come up with a 2nd that valued him the way the pens did. Im not going to find your info for you. You wanna prove a point you do it.
    as far as Amirov not scoring in Jr's,well that'd be something if he was playing in jr instead of the KHL against men. Now, if you actually googled Amirov (its real easy) you could see that he scored at a higher than PPG pace in the MHL (russian jr type league) where the only player on that pace or higher was almost 3 years older than him.
    good luck indeed!
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:02
    #62
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 6,439
    Likes: 2,222
    Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
    And when he was on the Leafs, Leafs fans were saying he is easily a top 6 winger but blocked by Nylander and Marner. Stop playing stupid, that argument goes both ways


    yeah, Leaf fans thought he was an ok 2nd line winger who was blocked by 2 1st line winge
    Quoting: PGHBOB69
    Here u go. 5:35 u can start!! This is the 1st thing that came up!! Your guys analysis saying 2 other teams were involved and offered a 1st. That was Kapanen’s value. Pittsburgh had to add Hallander. Which like we said, a “C” prospect. You can read your own Leafs insiders stuff to prove that. They even say his ceiling is a bottom 6.



    ah yes, everyone's favourite analysts youtube man and his friends with no new info. good job!
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:02
    #63
    Thread Starter
    Pens were the best
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 5,011
    Likes: 1,636
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    i never said that Kap was bad, just underwhelming for the return. As far as 25 goals, well.....good luck with that, he might do it but he probably wont unless Sid figures out how to use him as an elite net front pin ball bumper.
    And Matheson is terrible, he's always been terrible, he's never had earlier season success. He's just a bad defender and he cant contribute offensively. Unless he figures something out or finds a magic amulet or something he is what he is, a bad over paid bottom pairing guy that a couple oldschool GM's fell in love with because he's big and physical kinda


    CbkETcF

    Take a look at Kapanen’s stats from 2018/19 when he played with Matthews, he was impacting his team’s offensive play at an above average level. Considering it was his first full season in the NHL, it’s quite impressive. Considering that he’ll get to play alongside an elite center again, there’s no reason to think he can’t get Regain that form.
    mhockey91 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:03
    #64
    Joined: Oct 2020
    Posts: 1,330
    Likes: 454
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    i love how people are thinking the difference between a 2-3rd line tweener (what Kap currently is) and 3rd liner is some sort of massive jump when discussing a prospects ceiling. Of course, now that Kapanen isnt a leaf everyone think's he's a very good 2nd liner or something so that might have something to do with it



    Lol, wow, now I’m completely done. You just made the blocked list. Big difference bud. A top 6 or a bottom 6. Huge difference. Even a big difference in pay. The 1st two lines are interchangeable. See Leafs line-up and Mariner on the 2nd line!! I guess MRner and your 3rd line wings are even too!! Top 6 players and bottom 6 players are a huge difference!! The 3rd line is more of a defensive, checking line, that can chip in and score a bit. A lot less minutes than a top 6 forward too!! How do u not know this?? Lol. Really man, u need google in your life. Congrats though, u made the block list for that comment!!

    Ohh ya? 18 pick and the 15th is a huge difference though?? That’s your thinking?? And a top 6 and bottom 6 isn’t?? Lol..wow!!

    By the way, the video just confirms that the devils offered their 18 pick and another team offered a 1st too..that’s all. That’s all I was looking for, 1st thing google brought up!!
    mhockey91 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:08
    #65
    Thread Starter
    Pens were the best
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 5,011
    Likes: 1,636
    Quoting: PGHBOB69
    I’ll take Kapanen for the next 3 years over Amirov and Hallander. Hallender is a 3C or 3 LW ceiling. He’s a “C” prospect, “B-“ at best. And once I saw that goalie, Rossi, Seth Jarvis, or Jake Sanderson didn’t fall to 15, and Leafs took Amirov, I was even more happy with the trade. If the Pens kept 15 I would’ve been pissed if they took Amirov. I would have wanted them to take either C.Zary, K.Guhle(who was drafted at 16), or even Hendrix Lapiere(I was mad he went to the Caps). I’ll take Kappy everyday of the week over Amirov and Hallander!!


    Quoting: mhockey91
    Hallender plays LW so clearly you don’t know much about him. His ceiling definitely isn’t kapanen.

    Leafs would’ve been much better taking Schneider, Zary or Lapierre over amirov.


    IDK about your takes on Amirov. I’ve seen a lot of analysts such as Bill Comeau, Kevin Papetti, Nick DeSouza and NHL TapeTalk rank him as the 12th best prospect in the draft, whereas they had Zary at 15, Lapierre 16, Schneider 19 and Guhle out of the first round (his defensive metrics were horrible). Amirov’s advanced analytics are through the roof so he’s a guy Dubas couldn’t pass up.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:12
    #66
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 6,439
    Likes: 2,222
    Quoting: PGHBOB69
    Lol, wow, now I’m completely done. You just made the blocked list. Big difference bud. A top 6 or a bottom 6. Huge difference. Even a big difference in pay. The 1st two lines are interchangeable. See Leafs line-up and Mariner on the 2nd line!! I guess MRner and your 3rd line wings are even too!! Top 6 players and bottom 6 players are a huge difference!! The 3rd line is more of a defensive, checking line, that can chip in and score a bit. A lot less minutes than a top 6 forward too!! How do u not know this?? Lol. Really man, u need google in your life. Congrats though, u made the block list for that comment!!

    Ohh ya? 18 pick and the 15th is a huge difference though?? That’s your thinking?? And a top 6 and bottom 6 isn’t?? Lol..wow!!

    By the way, the video just confirms that the devils offered their 18 pick and another team offered a 1st too..that’s all. That’s all I was looking for, 1st thing google brought up!!


    why is it always people who paint themselves into a corner they cant fake their way out of who block me? i wonder why?
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:13
    #67
    Thread Starter
    Pens were the best
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 5,011
    Likes: 1,636
    Quoting: Pens3lieve
    Hornqvist is NOT going to have a monster year.
    many even said that about Phil last year and I knew that wasn't going to happen. Florida like Arizona stinks. Hornqvist isn't as good as he was in 2016-17. not even close. I would have traded Hornqvist a year or two ago if possible. I like Matheson's potential. if he stinks, cue Seattle. I personally am very optimistic about a turn around for him. bc unlike JJ, he's not a pylon. his analytics are pretty nice on a bad Florida team. he has speed and a good shot. give him a better partner than Ceci and I can see him rebounding to a #4D.


    IDK man, Kessel when he went to Arizona didn’t have get to play with elite players around him (Schmaltz was his center & Crouse was his LW), so he wasn’t exactly put in a position to succeed. Hornqvist will get to share the ice with Barkov, Huberdeau & Ekblad (3 elite players). I just felt Hornqvist never got an opportunity to play with Sid & Jake over the past 2 seasons.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:30
    #68
    Joined: Oct 2020
    Posts: 1,330
    Likes: 454
    Edited Nov 26, 2020 at 8:34
    Lol, Wikipedia knows the difference is huge b/ween a top 6 and bottom 6. If that dude is from Canada. He should have his citizenship revoked for that comment..lol.

    “A team's 1st forward line is composed of their best players, the guys that are the most skilled and usually play on the powerplay. They are out there to score goals.

    The 2nd line is also a scoring line. 2nd line players can be interchanged with top line players based on chemistry and playing style.

    The 3rd and 4th lines can be composed of different players depending on the team, but these are usually the "grinders" or a "checking line"; guys that are usually defensively sound but don't bring much in the way of offense.”

    “Higher end (typically first line) players may be put on the second line to spread scoring across the lineup, making a team more difficult for opponents to defend against. This frequently happens when a team has two high-end players who play the same position”


    “The third line is often called the checking line, and is generally made up of more defensively oriented forwards and grinders. This line is often played against an opponent's first or second lines in an effort to reduce their scoring, and physically wear them down. The third line adds less offense than the first or second lines, but generally more than the fourth.”


    Top 6, bottom 6. Huge difference. Even In pay and minutes. A 2nd line player is interchangeable with the 1st line. A top 6 forward!! Even “in game”!! A bottom 6 will not be put “in game” onto a top line unless an injury. Even if a player is majorly struggling the coach will even wait till the next game to change that. It’s a huge change, putting a bottom 6 on a top line!!

    There is no major difference b/ween the 2nd line and 3rd line. Wow, I can’t believe I wasted my time arguing with that!! I wish he would have posted that earlier so I knew that a was dealing with someone who has no clue about hockey!!
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:36
    #69
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 15,268
    Likes: 3,812
    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    I’ll give my 2cents here. If Kap scores 25 it’s not bc he’s good it’s bc Sid / Malkin are elite. Rust had elite numbers this year mainly bc Malkin is a fkin monster. Penguins could have easily signed a guy or just kept Kuhun and not wasted a -#15 oa. Also to the guy who said that pick was < kap not true. Leafs drafted maybe one of the biggest sleepers of the draft. That kid is going to be amazing. Remember when people thought Kessel would score 50 goals. In 4 years he broke 30 goals 1x and he’s 3x the player Kap is.


    eh Kap got 20 in his 1st full season at the NHL level with spending a lot of time on the 3rd line aka less minutes.
    Last year not so much but lets be honest, their team sucked last year. They had managed to basically play themselves out the playoffs. If it wasn't for Covid, they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs.

    He's a young player, the hardest thing for them is consistency, he has the talent to hit 25, but like any player they can't do it themselves. I honestly don't think they are looking for him to be a goal scorer so I think that whole argument is pointless. They want him to be the glue. Jake and Sid can score the goals, they need the other elements and that's really what's going to define him there.

    say what you want about Kessel, he's a huge reason they won 2 cups, and they actually had a good powerplay with him. It is what it is.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:38
    #70
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 15,268
    Likes: 3,812
    Quoting: PGHBOB69
    Lol, Wikipedia knows the difference is huge b/ween a 1st and 2nd. If that dude is from Canada. He should have his citizenship revoked for that comment..lol.

    “A team's 1st forward line is composed of their best players, the guys that are the most skilled and usually play on the powerplay. They are out there to score goals.

    The 2nd line is also a scoring line. 2nd line players can be interchanged with top line players based on chemistry and playing style.

    The 3rd and 4th lines can be composed of different players depending on the team, but these are usually the "grinders" or a "checking line"; guys that are usually defensively sound but don't bring much in the way of offense.”

    “Higher end (typically first line) players may be put on the second line to spread scoring across the lineup, making a team more difficult for opponents to defend against. This frequently happens when a team has two high-end players who play the same position”


    “The third line is often called the checking line, and is generally made up of more defensively oriented forwards and grinders. This line is often played against an opponent's first or second lines in an effort to reduce their scoring, and physically wear them down. The third line adds less offense than the first or second lines, but generally more than the fourth.”


    Top 6, bottom 6. Huge difference. Even In pay and minutes. A 2nd line player is interchangeable with the 1st line. A top 6 forward!! Even in game!! A bottom 6 will not be put “in game” onto a top line unless an injury. Even if a player is majorly struggling the coach will even wait till the next game to change that. It’s a huge change, putting a bottom 6 on a top line!!

    There is no major difference b/ween the 2nd line and 3rd line. Wow, I can’t believe I wasted my time arguing with that!! I wish he would have posted that earlier so I knew that a was dealing with someone who has no clue about hockey!!


    you shouldn't say such things, Canada is turning into a fascist state.
    #FreeAdamSkelly
    PGHBOB69 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:56
    #71
    Joined: Oct 2020
    Posts: 1,330
    Likes: 454
    Quoting: pharrow
    eh Kap got 20 in his 1st full season at the NHL level with spending a lot of time on the 3rd line aka less minutes.
    Last year not so much but lets be honest, their team sucked last year. They had managed to basically play themselves out the playoffs. If it wasn't for Covid, they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs.

    He's a young player, the hardest thing for them is consistency, he has the talent to hit 25, but like any player they can't do it themselves. I honestly don't think they are looking for him to be a goal scorer so I think that whole argument is pointless. They want him to be the glue. Jake and Sid can score the goals, they need the other elements and that's really what's going to define him there.

    say what you want about Kessel, he's a huge reason they won 2 cups, and they actually had a good powerplay with him. It is what it is.


    And he’s coming into a locker room with Sid and Geno. That’s a big deal. Even more so to a younger player. Most players change when they come here. And that probably has a lot to do with it. He’s not in a locker full of kids like in Toronto.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 6:56
    #72
    Retired V2 V3 GM
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,677
    Likes: 619
    Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
    Do you guys think the Penguins made a mistake trading Hornqvist?


    Yes 100%, Hornqvist has been a corner stone of the Penguins organization for years. He scored both game winners in both Stanley Cup Final games. Horny is a legend that we will never forget!!! Great memories watching him play! He will largely be missed by all of us!
    Nov 26, 2020 at 7:12
    #73
    Thread Starter
    Pens were the best
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 5,011
    Likes: 1,636
    Quoting: Missouri
    Yes 100%, Hornqvist has been a corner stone of the Penguins organization for years. He scored both game winners in both Stanley Cup Final games. Horny is a legend that we will never forget!!! Great memories watching him play! He will largely be missed by all of us!


    Yes I was a huge Horny fan! I felt he was still good enough to play a top line role over the past 2 seasons, but the coaching staff wasn’t willing to take that risk which led to his departure. He will go down as one of the most important players in the team’s history!
    Missouri liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 8:15
    #74
    Caps fan idk why
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 8,628
    Likes: 3,187
    Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
    The Crosby/Malkin pumping numbers is not always correct. Yes, it happens. But look at all the wingers who failed playing with them 2. If it were always true, why didnt Simon ever score 10+ goals? Crosby and Malkin can only do so much


    Bc Simon is terrible and his upside is defensive hockey?
    Nov 26, 2020 at 8:29
    #75
    Joined: Oct 2020
    Posts: 1,330
    Likes: 454
    Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
    The Crosby/Malkin pumping numbers is not always correct. Yes, it happens. But look at all the wingers who failed playing with them 2. If it were always true, why didnt Simon ever score 10+ goals? Crosby and Malkin can only do so much


    Exactly right!! 100% agree. They can help with Points, secondary assists, but you still have to produce. Sid and Geno can carry a line, but cannot turn an average player into a good one. Or a good one into a great one. We have seen it b4 with Simon, and Sheary and Sprong!! That’s perfect, you are 100% right!! When Kappy scores 20 plus this year, that’s gonna be everyone’s excuse!! “Well he’s playing with Crosby”. You’re Exactly right though!! They can only do so much. They can’t put the puck in the net for u!!
     
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