Forums/Armchair-GM

Will They Regret Trading Hornqvist

Created by: MitchMarnerElite
Initial Creation Date: Nov 26, 2020
Published: Nov 26, 2020 at 3:30
Team: 2020-21 Pittsburgh Penguins
Team Explanation
Though it hasn't been talked about a lot, I feel Hornqvist is gonna have a monster year in Florida next season. If he stays healthy, I bet he can get around 30 goals. He's going to be playing alongside 2 elite playmaking forwards who will be able to get him the puck in scoring areas, plus will see top PP time. I don't really understand why the Penguins didn't give Hornqvist much of an opportunity alongside Crosby over the past 2 seasons. Historically, the Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist line have always done great in terms of generating offence, yet the coach always played inferior guys like Sheary or Simon in that RW position. Honestly if they kept Hornqvist, there would've been no need to give up a 1st and top prospect for Kapanen. They could've used those assets to get an excellent 3C instead.
Trades
PIT
  1. Hörnqvist, Patric
FLA
  1. Matheson, Michael
PIT
  1. Amirov, Rodion [Reserve List]
  2. Hållander, Filip
TOR
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi
PIT
  1. Lowry, Adam
WPG
    2021 1st Round Pick
    Buyouts
    • Jack Johnson: $1,166,667
    Retained Salary Transactions
    • Nick Bjugstad: $2,050,000 (50%)
    Buried
    • Colton Sceviour: $125,000 ($1,200,000)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2021
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    WSH
    ANA
    2022
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    2023
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    PIT
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$81,500,000$79,392,675$0$850,000$2,107,325

    Roster

    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    PIT
    Guentzel, Jake
    $6,000,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 4
    PIT
    Crosby, Sidney
    $8,700,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 5
    FLA
    Hörnqvist, Patric
    $5,300,000
    RW
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    PIT
    Zucker, Jason
    $5,500,000
    LW, RW
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    PIT
    Malkin, Evgeni
    $9,500,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 2
    PIT
    Rust, Bryan
    $3,500,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    PIT
    McCann, Jared
    $2,940,000
    LW, C
    RFA - 2
    WPG
    Lowry, Adam
    $2,916,666
    C
    UFA - 1
    PIT
    Poulin, Samuel
    $894,167
    LW, RW
    RFA - 3
    PIT
    Aston-Reese, Zach
    $1,000,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    PIT
    Blueger, Teddy
    $750,000
    C, LW
    RFA - 1
    PIT
    Tanev, Brandon
    $3,500,000
    RW, LW
    NTC
    UFA - 5
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    PIT
    Dumoulin, Brian
    $4,100,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    PIT
    Letang, Kris
    $7,250,000
    RD
    NMC NTC
    UFA - 2
    PIT
    Jarry, Tristan
    $3,500,000
    G
    UFA - 3
    PIT
    Pettersson, Marcus
    $4,025,175
    LD
    UFA - 5
    PIT
    Marino, John
    $925,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    PIT
    DeSmith, Casey
    $1,250,000
    G
    UFA - 2
    PIT
    Riikola, Juuso
    $1,150,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    PIT
    Ceci, Cody
    $1,250,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    PIT
    Rodrigues, Evan
    $700,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 1
    PIT
    Jankowski, Mark
    $700,000
    LW, C
    RFA - 1
    PIT
    Ruhwedel, Chad
    $700,000
    RD
    UFA - 1

    Special Teams

    Power Play 1
    Hörnqvist, P.
    Crosby, S.
    Poulin, S.
    Letang, K.
    Malkin, E.
    Power Play 2
    Zucker, J.
    McCann, J.
    Guentzel, J.
    Rust, B.
    Marino, J.
    Penalty Kill 1
    Lowry, A.
    Tanev, B.
    Dumoulin, B.
    Letang, K.
    Penalty Kill 2
    Blueger, T.
    Aston-Reese, Z.
    Marino, J.
    Ceci, C.

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    Nov 26, 2020 at 9:18
    #76
    Hockey IQ
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,748
    Likes: 922
    Quoting: PGHBOB69
    Lol, wow, now I’m completely done. You just made the blocked list. Big difference bud. A top 6 or a bottom 6. Huge difference. Even a big difference in pay. The 1st two lines are interchangeable. See Leafs line-up and Mariner on the 2nd line!! I guess MRner and your 3rd line wings are even too!! Top 6 players and bottom 6 players are a huge difference!! The 3rd line is more of a defensive, checking line, that can chip in and score a bit. A lot less minutes than a top 6 forward too!! How do u not know this?? Lol. Really man, u need google in your life. Congrats though, u made the block list for that comment!!

    Ohh ya? 18 pick and the 15th is a huge difference though?? That’s your thinking?? And a top 6 and bottom 6 isn’t?? Lol..wow!!

    By the way, the video just confirms that the devils offered their 18 pick and another team offered a 1st too..that’s all. That’s all I was looking for, 1st thing google brought up!!


    he's already on my list lol...it's unfortunate people keep quoting his posts so much bc blocks don't block those.... frown
    PGHBOB69 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 9:20
    #77
    Hockey IQ
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,748
    Likes: 922
    Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
    IDK man, Kessel when he went to Arizona didn’t have get to play with elite players around him (Schmaltz was his center & Crouse was his LW), so he wasn’t exactly put in a position to succeed. Hornqvist will get to share the ice with Barkov, Huberdeau & Ekblad (3 elite players). I just felt Hornqvist never got an opportunity to play with Sid & Jake over the past 2 seasons.


    I highly doubt he is on the top line with those three players....hornqvist has never been as effective as Kessel, FLA is still a dumpster fire, and with a condensed schedule it's more likely Horny gets hurt. I think matheson will far outperform hornqvist honestly...
    Nov 26, 2020 at 9:21
    #78
    Hockey IQ
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,748
    Likes: 922
    Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
    Yes I was a huge Horny fan! I felt he was still good enough to play a top line role over the past 2 seasons, but the coaching staff wasn’t willing to take that risk which led to his departure. He will go down as one of the most important players in the team’s history!


    Quoting: Missouri
    Yes 100%, Hornqvist has been a corner stone of the Penguins organization for years. He scored both game winners in both Stanley Cup Final games. Horny is a legend that we will never forget!!! Great memories watching him play! He will largely be missed by all of us!


    if the pens had a like ring of honour or something, he'd be in it... not quite to the level of jersey retirement but he was an important piece in those cups.
    Missouri liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 9:25
    #79
    Hockey IQ
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,748
    Likes: 922
    Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
    The Crosby/Malkin pumping numbers is not always correct. Yes, it happens. But look at all the wingers who failed playing with them 2. If it were always true, why didnt Simon ever score 10+ goals? Crosby and Malkin can only do so much


    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    Bc Simon is terrible and his upside is defensive hockey?


    yeah true. not everyone can play with Sid and score 30 instantly. Penguins Myths 101. Simon just plain can't finish. Sid liked playing with him bc Simon got him the puck. to play with Sid and geno it's it SOOOO much about fit and comfort level as opposed to skill and 40 goal stuff. although guentzel is both conveniently.....which makes him even more deadly.
    Capitalfail67 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 9:35
    #80
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 3,185
    Likes: 1,368
    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    Bc Simon is terrible and his upside is defensive hockey?


    So why is it when theres a winger that plays with crosby, and that winger scores points, its because of crosby. But when a winger doesnt put up points, he sucks?
    Nov 26, 2020 at 9:58
    #81
    Caps fan idk why
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 8,456
    Likes: 3,111
    Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
    So why is it when theres a winger that plays with crosby, and that winger scores points, its because of crosby. But when a winger doesnt put up points, he sucks?


    Okay since you struggle to follow my point I’ll dumb it down. Simon is a 4th line player MAYBE on some NHL rosters that was able to score at a 30 point pace while on Crosby / Malkin wing. I doubt he’s able to score 10 point or make the Flames roster next year. Yeah he’s a terrible player offensively. Like I said previously his value is on the defensive side of the puck. Playing with elite center will improve a players stats .... common sense shouldn’t be this hard to understand

    Kessel didn’t put up points w Sid and I didn’t say he sucks ? Sheary Simon Kunitz PD are all great examples of bottom 6 players that look like top liners with Sid
    Nov 26, 2020 at 10:00
    #82
    Caps fan idk why
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 8,456
    Likes: 3,111
    Quoting: Pens3lieve
    yeah true. not everyone can play with Sid and score 30 instantly. Penguins Myths 101. Simon just plain can't finish. Sid liked playing with him bc Simon got him the puck. to play with Sid and geno it's it SOOOO much about fit and comfort level as opposed to skill and 40 goal stuff. although guentzel is both conveniently.....which makes him even more deadly.


    Crosby generally gels will with high IQ grit players. Kap is neither of those. They should have targeted Domi IMO
    Nov 26, 2020 at 10:17
    #83
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 3,185
    Likes: 1,368
    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    Okay since you struggle to follow my point I’ll dumb it down. Simon is a 4th line player MAYBE on some NHL rosters that was able to score at a 30 point pace while on Crosby / Malkin wing. I doubt he’s able to score 10 point or make the Flames roster next year. Yeah he’s a terrible player offensively. Like I said previously his value is on the defensive side of the puck. Playing with elite center will improve a players stats .... common sense shouldn’t be this hard to understand

    Kessel didn’t put up points w Sid and I didn’t say he sucks ? Sheary Simon Kunitz PD are all great examples of bottom 6 players that look like top liners with Sid


    No, I fully understand your point. It's just extremely stupid and unreliable. You even said Guentzel is a 40 goal scorer because of Crosby. Well why hasn't anyone else scored that many with sid? Surely it shouldn't matter about offensive skill because they play with crosby. You always give credit to crosby and malkin, and try and diminish their wingers
    Nov 26, 2020 at 10:27
    #84
    Caps fan idk why
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 8,456
    Likes: 3,111
    Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
    No, I fully understand your point. It's just extremely stupid and unreliable. You even said Guentzel is a 40 goal scorer because of Crosby. Well why hasn't anyone else scored that many with sid? Surely it shouldn't matter about offensive skill because they play with crosby. You always give credit to crosby and malkin, and try and diminish their wingers


    Guentzel has a a high hockey IQ. HE’S also put up amazing numbers wMalkin. “Diminish their wingers” I never said Guentzel isnt good. You are just making up moronic opinions in your head. Lmfao. Simon is a plug. Sheary is a plug. Both had great numbers bc of Sid and Malkin. Use your brain this is common sense lol can’t be this thick. Rust isn’t a ppg winger but add him to Malkin line what do you get? Have a good day lmfao
    Nov 26, 2020 at 10:36
    #85
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 3,185
    Likes: 1,368
    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    Guentzel has a a high hockey IQ. HE’S also put up amazing numbers wMalkin. “Diminish their wingers” I never said Guentzel isnt good. You are just making up moronic opinions in your head. Lmfao. Simon is a plug. Sheary is a plug. Both had great numbers bc of Sid and Malkin. Use your brain this is common sense lol can’t be this thick. Rust isn’t a ppg winger but add him to Malkin line what do you get? Have a good day lmfao


    Did I say you said Guentzel wasn't good? No. I said you said hes only a 40 goal scorer because of Crosby. Like I said, you diminish their wingers. Simon is awful. And look what happened in Buffalo with Sheary. He had his 2nd highest point season in Buffalo. Did crosby and malkin help him in Buffalo too? And you brought up Kunitz. Did they help him score 20+ when he played in Anaheim? And you do realize rust played with malkin a lot last year too, and wasn't a ppg player? Its stupid you rule out the fact he just had an outlier of a year. Im not saying crosby and malkin dont boost stats, but people like you constantly pick and choose when to use that logic. Again, its stupid and unreliable. You can use that logic with so many players. One being Tom Wilson
    Nov 26, 2020 at 11:01
    #86
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 13,926
    Likes: 3,401
    Quoting: PGHBOB69
    And he’s coming into a locker room with Sid and Geno. That’s a big deal. Even more so to a younger player. Most players change when they come here. And that probably has a lot to do with it. He’s not in a locker full of kids like in Toronto.


    I don't think that really matters so much. Look at McCann he's been here going on 2 full seasons now. But the inconsistency is there. But he's still a relatively young player at 24.
    But getting him to play the same way he did in the first half of the year, in the last half of the year, is harder than it sounds. Most young players go through that, it usually takes feeling comfortable in your role and position in the league to work past that. You know you belong there, stick to your basics and build from there when things are clicking.
    I think a lot of younger players are on edge, trying to show they need to stay there and that leads to issues. It's usually why really high picks have less issues with it. Because they know they are "safe", where the players who are middle of the pack are hanging on. But if they belong they figure it out aka Rusty or Hornqvist or whoever.
    Things slow down when you aren't worried about your job.
    DartGuy86 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 11:08
    #87
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 13,926
    Likes: 3,401
    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    Crosby generally gels will with high IQ grit players. Kap is neither of those. They should have targeted Domi IMO


    They can't afford Domi. He signed 5.3 million, they didn't have cap for that.

    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    Okay since you struggle to follow my point I’ll dumb it down. Simon is a 4th line player MAYBE on some NHL rosters that was able to score at a 30 point pace while on Crosby / Malkin wing. I doubt he’s able to score 10 point or make the Flames roster next year. Yeah he’s a terrible player offensively. Like I said previously his value is on the defensive side of the puck. Playing with elite center will improve a players stats .... common sense shouldn’t be this hard to understand

    Kessel didn’t put up points w Sid and I didn’t say he sucks ? Sheary Simon Kunitz PD are all great examples of bottom 6 players that look like top liners with Sid


    To be fair to Simon, he's not a terrible player. He just has a god awful shot.
    I mean he understands the game. He knew where to be on the ice, he knew how to be strong on the puck, hell he knew how to play defense.
    He just can't shoot for ****.
    If he ever fixed his shot, he'd be a really decent player. But he can't hit the broad side of a barn with his shot so he could never capitalize on the wide open nets he would put himself in position to have.

    Which is kind of my worry with Kap, he's another guy with a shot that ain't worth ****.
    900mph down the ice to slam the puck into the back wall. It's his go to move.
    If that continues, don't expect 25 goals or whatever. But that's why I'm kind of glad they most likely want him to be the glue.
    Capitalfail67 liked this.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 11:15
    #88
    Caps fan idk why
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 8,456
    Likes: 3,111
    Quoting: pharrow
    They can't afford Domi. He signed 5.3 million, they didn't have cap for that.



    To be fair to Simon, he's not a terrible player. He just has a god awful shot.
    I mean he understands the game. He knew where to be on the ice, he knew how to be strong on the puck, hell he knew how to play defense.
    He just can't shoot for ****.
    If he ever fixed his shot, he'd be a really decent player. But he can't hit the broad side of a barn with his shot so he could never capitalize on the wide open nets he would put himself in position to have.

    Which is kind of my worry with Kap, he's another guy with a shot that ain't worth ****.
    900mph down the ice to slam the puck into the back wall. It's his go to move.
    If that continues, don't expect 25 goals or whatever. But that's why I'm kind of glad they most likely want him to be the glue.


    In my defense I did say he had defensive upside.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 11:24
    #89
    Caps fan idk why
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 8,456
    Likes: 3,111
    Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
    Did I say you said Guentzel wasn't good? No. I said you said hes only a 40 goal scorer because of Crosby. Like I said, you diminish their wingers. Simon is awful. And look what happened in Buffalo with Sheary. He had his 2nd highest point season in Buffalo. Did crosby and malkin help him in Buffalo too? And you brought up Kunitz. Did they help him score 20+ when he played in Anaheim? And you do realize rust played with malkin a lot last year too, and wasn't a ppg player? Its stupid you rule out the fact he just had an outlier of a year. Im not saying crosby and malkin dont boost stats, but people like you constantly pick and choose when to use that logic. Again, its stupid and unreliable. You can use that logic with so many players. One being Tom Wilson


    Quote me where I said this please? You mean a 1st round pick that had amazing juniors stats that got pinned on the 4th line bc the capitals refused to let him play a single game in the the AHL to develop him? Yeah that sounds like what happened with Simon. Lmfao rust is a solid 2 way center but when he was placed on the line w Malkin and rust he scored at an elite level. Makes a a massive difference. Saying players score more playing w Crosby / Malkin isn’t dump or unreliable it’s factual 9/10. Look at Kas playing w Mcdavid. Or look at RNH. Point totals when he plays wing w elite talent compared to when he had to center his own line. It’s not just Pittsburgh it happens everywhere. Look at Marners totals w Tavares and without.
    Nov 26, 2020 at 11:38
    #90
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 3,185
    Likes: 1,368
    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    Quote me where I said this please? You mean a 1st round pick that had amazing juniors stats that got pinned on the 4th line bc the capitals refused to let him play a single game in the the AHL to develop him? Yeah that sounds like what happened with Simon. Lmfao rust is a solid 2 way center but when he was placed on the line w Malkin and rust he scored at an elite level. Makes a a massive difference. Saying players score more playing w Crosby / Malkin isn’t dump or unreliable it’s factual 9/10. Look at Kas playing w Mcdavid. Or look at RNH. Point totals when he plays wing w elite talent compared to when he had to center his own line. It’s not just Pittsburgh it happens everywhere. Look at Marners totals w Tavares and without.


    You are having a real difficult time with this lmao. I literally said crosby and malkin help with winger stats, but you pick and choose when to use that.
    Nov 27, 2020 at 12:28
    #91
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 1,353
    Likes: 164
    Trading him, no. He’s probably due decline and Sullivan didn’t see him as a fit with 87 and 71. His offense was still good and he was producing but his transition play had already fallen off.

    The return though a mistake, maybe. Matheson could be a good mobile second pair guy, but be a really expensive bottom pair guy. Guess we wait and see
    Nov 27, 2020 at 2:33
    #92
    Retired V2 V3 GM
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,622
    Likes: 591
    Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
    Yes I was a huge Horny fan! I felt he was still good enough to play a top line role over the past 2 seasons, but the coaching staff wasn’t willing to take that risk which led to his departure. He will go down as one of the most important players in the team’s history!


    I totally agree, he will go down as a historic guy! I still remember the exact day that we got him in the James Neal trade. I was so mad we lost Neal... I don't feel that way anymore lol
    Nov 27, 2020 at 2:34
    #93
    Retired V2 V3 GM
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,622
    Likes: 591
    Quoting: Pens3lieve
    if the pens had a like ring of honour or something, he'd be in it... not quite to the level of jersey retirement but he was an important piece in those cups.


    Yeah a nice momento would suit him good but no not a jersey retirement. Only for guys who have been a penguin for life. Crosby, Malkin... and idk thats probably it.
    Nov 27, 2020 at 9:41
    #94
    Hockey IQ
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,748
    Likes: 922
    Quoting: Capitalfail67
    Crosby generally gels will with high IQ grit players. Kap is neither of those. They should have targeted Domi IMO


    domi would have been nice but I don't think he can play RW, which we need.
    Capitalfail67 liked this.
    Nov 27, 2020 at 9:41
    #95
    Hockey IQ
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,748
    Likes: 922
    Quoting: Missouri
    Yeah a nice momento would suit him good but no not a jersey retirement. Only for guys who have been a penguin for life. Crosby, Malkin... and idk thats probably it.


    I'd go Letang too, honestly...
    Missouri liked this.
    Nov 27, 2020 at 10:35
    #96
    Retired V2 V3 GM
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,622
    Likes: 591
    Quoting: Pens3lieve
    I'd go Letang too, honestly...


    Yeah well tbh if it was my choice I would choose Fleury over Letang. That guy is my all time fav and a hell of a big legend for us! Wish we could get him back.
    Nov 27, 2020 at 10:37
    #97
    Hockey IQ
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,748
    Likes: 922
    Quoting: Missouri
    Yeah well tbh if it was my choice I would choose Fleury over Letang. That guy is my all time fav and a hell of a big legend for us! Wish we could get him back.


    maybe if he comes back for a season or two to retire as a penguins after his current contract that'd be nice...we prob wouldn't be contending then anyways.... sure, I'd be in favour of retiring his #
    Missouri liked this.
    Nov 27, 2020 at 11:14
    #98
    Caps fan idk why
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 8,456
    Likes: 3,111
    Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
    You are having a real difficult time with this lmao. I literally said crosby and malkin help with winger stats, but you pick and choose when to use that.


    not at all . you are just confused .... its not so much picking and choosing its more what players rely on others players skills .... Guentzel has the ability to create by himself. the others dont... PProbably the main reason penguins cant win a playoff game bc if you shutdown 87 71 they are basically unable to produce offense.
    Nov 27, 2020 at 4:44
    #99
    Thread Starter
    Marner Stan Account
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 5,011
    Likes: 1,636
    Quoting: Pens3lieve
    I highly doubt he is on the top line with those three players....hornqvist has never been as effective as Kessel, FLA is still a dumpster fire, and with a condensed schedule it's more likely Horny gets hurt. I think matheson will far outperform hornqvist honestly...


    I guess we'll see. Hornqvist's injury history is definitely concerning, but when he was healthy last season he scored at a 25 goal pace, so I think he still has one good year left.
    Nov 27, 2020 at 4:52
    #100
    Hockey IQ
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,748
    Likes: 922
    Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
    I guess we'll see. Hornqvist's injury history is definitely concerning, but when he was healthy last season he scored at a 25 goal pace, so I think he still has one good year left.


    we'll see for sure...
    I hope matheson recovers and bounces back or else the pens will have a new worst contract...
     
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