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Tatar over Lehky and Armia

Created by: TheDuminator
Team: 2021-22 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 2, 2020
Published: Dec. 2, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Why having 2 bottom 6 guys that would take 6M together... as Tatar & Danault are way more valuable... and we are stuck with Byron who is great at PK. = SOLID Top 9
the following season: Chariot money will be given to Suzuki
and after Allen, Byron off the book for an extra 5M in savings and maybe Drouin as well if he doesn't step up.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$800,000
2$800,000
3$2,800,000
2$1,000,000
2$800,000
2$1,200,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
4$4,200,000
6$5,300,000
2$800,000
Trades
MTL
    Seattle pick him or Kulak but both are gone!
    Buyouts
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2021
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the TBL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the WSH
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the STL
    Logo of the VGK
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the OTT
    Logo of the PHI
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    2022
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the STL
    2023
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$81,500,000$70,789,287$597,561$1,175,000$10,710,713
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $4,200,000$4,200,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $5,300,000$5,300,000
    C
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $6,500,000$6,500,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC, NMC
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $5,500,000$5,500,000
    LW, RW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$537,500$538K)
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $5,500,000$5,500,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $3,400,000$3,400,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $2,800,000$2,800,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $2,125,000$2,125,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $1,000,000$1,000,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $750,000$750,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $800,000$800,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $800,000$800,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $875,000$875,000
    LD/RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $7,857,143$7,857,143
    RD
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $10,500,000$10,500,000
    G
    NMC
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $1,750,000$1,750,000
    LD/RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $2,343,750$2,343,750
    RD
    M-NTC, NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $2,875,000$2,875,000
    G
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$637,500$638K)
    LD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $800,000$800,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $800,000$800,000
    RD
    RFA - 1

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    The simple question at the beginning was: Tatar over Armia & Lehky do you agree?
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    Dec. 2, 2020 at 12:37 p.m.
    #1
    Wreckless
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    Way too much for Danault. And Poehling won't likely be more than NHL minimum.
    Dec. 2, 2020 at 12:46 p.m.
    #2
    Former Hockey Fan
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    Quoting: Wreckless
    Way too much for Danault. And Poehling won't likely be more than NHL minimum.


    What are you talking about with Danault?

    I agree about Poehling.
    Dec. 2, 2020 at 5:41 p.m.
    #3
    Habs_fan
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    Habs can't pay a third line center over 5M. You have to look long term. Suzuki will make around 8M at some point and Kotkaniemi will probably make around the same if he develops into what they are hoping. Plus what is Romanov going to make in 3-4 years. Caufield has to be added to the picture as well. If Danault wants to stay the max contract he will get is 4 x 4.5M. Its the only deal that makes sense for the future.
    Dec. 3, 2020 at 10:49 a.m.
    #4
    Wreckless
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    Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
    What are you talking about with Danault?

    I agree about Poehling.


    1) flat cap
    2) who do you consider to be a comparable player to Phil Danault who makes $5.3mm (even before COVID)?
    Dec. 3, 2020 at 11:11 a.m.
    #5
    Wreckless
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    Quoting: p1015983
    Habs can't pay a third line center over 5M. You have to look long term. Suzuki will make around 8M at some point and Kotkaniemi will probably make around the same if he develops into what they are hoping. Plus what is Romanov going to make in 3-4 years. Caufield has to be added to the picture as well. If Danault wants to stay the max contract he will get is 4 x 4.5M. Its the only deal that makes sense for the future.


    I'd keep it simpler than that looking at the money we need down the road for others. Let's keep it strictly about Danault's role, his recent performance, and his relative comps. Right now.
    Danault has played more minutes that we'd typically want him to play the last two seasons given the lack of other experienced options at center, but I think it's reasonable to assume that he can average around 17 minutes of ice time per game give or take (over the course of a 4-6 year contract). He'll plays critical 5on5 minutes against the other team's top players. He gets prime PK minutes. Key defensive zone faceoffs. No time on the powerplay. In some games that might get him between 18-19 minutes, in others 15-16. It will also vary depending on which other young players we're trying to bring along at any given point in time, and also who might be injured.

    Danault is an excellent player, but he doesn't score enough to put him in more than his fair share of offensive zone faceoffs, or on the power play. The team is better off with him slotted in as a "#3" but he can easily get more minutes of ice-time than someone like KK well into the future. So would that make him a true #2 then? Either way, the "number" that he gets attributed in the minds of many doesn't matter at the end of the day. What's his role, and how good is he at it. Those are the questions that need to be answered.
    Dec. 3, 2020 at 11:41 a.m.
    #6
    Wreckless
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    Quoting: Wreckless
    1) flat cap
    2) who do you consider to be a comparable player to Phil Danault who makes $5.3mm (even before COVID)?


    The best comp that I can think of for Danault is (strangely) Lars Eller.

    Here are all the possible ways that I can think of these two comparing.
    Danault, drafted in the 1st round, 26th overall.
    Eller, drafted in the 1st round, 13th overall.
    advantage: Eller

    Both drafted by other teams and then traded to the Habs at a similar stage in their career.
    Danault's 2 year bridge contract coming out of ELC: $912,500
    Eller's 2 year bridge contract coming out of ELC: $1,150,000
    advantage: Eller

    Danault's 3rd contract, signed with the Habs, 3x$3.083mm
    Eller's 3rd contract, signed with the Habs, 4x$3.5mm
    advantage: Eller

    Danault's 4th contract: ?
    Eller's 4th contract, signed with the Caps, 5x$3.5mm

    Eller's expected role during the 4th contract: 3rd line center. 200 foot player with disproportionately defensive responsibilities.
    Danault's expected role during the 4th contract: 3rd line center. 200 foot player with disproportionately defensive responsibilities.

    Eller's health and size: never seriously injured in 10 full NHL seasons. 6'2" 205lbs.
    Danault's health and size: injured 30 games in 1 of 5 full NHL seasons. 6'1" 201lbs.
    advantage: Eller

    Eller's performance in the regular season: 132g 164a 296pts in 754g. best ever season last year at 16g 23a 39pts in 69 games. high in goals at 18.
    Danault's performance in the regular season: 50g 125a 175pts in 339g. best ever season last year at 13g 34a 47pts in 71 games. high in goals at 13.
    advantage: Eller for gpg, Danault for ppg.

    Eller's performance in the playoffs: 14g, 31a, 45p in 86g. Best seasons, 5g, 7a, 13p in 17g and 7g, 11a, 18p in 24g
    Danault's performance in the playoffs: 1g, 4a, 5p in 16g. Best seasons, 0g, 2a, 2p in 6g and 1g, 2a, 3p in 10g
    advantage: Eller by a mile.

    Faceoff stats:
    advantage: Danault.

    +/-
    advantage: Danault.

    Team success in both the regular season and playoffs:
    advantage: Eller

    I think you can reasonably make the case that Danault can (and likely will) be paid more than Eller, but how much is too much? In many of these categories, Eller holds a significant edge. Is Danault really worth more than $1mm more than Eller? Especially now with COVID and an expected flat cap for multiple seasons?
    Dec. 3, 2020 at 5:56 p.m.
    #7
    Former Hockey Fan
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    Quoting: Wreckless
    1) flat cap
    2) who do you consider to be a comparable player to Phil Danault who makes $5.3mm (even before COVID)?


    Mikael Backlund, Charlie Coyle, and Jean-Gabriel Pageau are all centres around the same age as Danault, who signed 6 year contracts worth from $5 to $5.35 million per year with no trade clauses in every year. Danault is better offensively and defensively than all 3 of these players. He’s getting over $5 million, no questions asked.
    TheDuminator liked this.
    Dec. 4, 2020 at 12:46 p.m.
    #8
    Wreckless
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    Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
    Mikael Backlund, Charlie Coyle, and Jean-Gabriel Pageau are all centres around the same age as Danault, who signed 6 year contracts worth from $5 to $5.35 million per year with no trade clauses in every year. Danault is better offensively and defensively than all 3 of these players. He’s getting over $5 million, no questions asked.


    Backlund is a consistent 20 goal scorer, so yeah, not a great comp.
    Coyle got me thinking a bit, but he also scores alot more than Phil. Also, the added factor of the scarcity value of being a a big RH center (which has got to the bigger factor in his case).
    Pageau is coming off a 26 goal season in only 67 games and has 20 career playoff goals, so yeah, not a comp either.

    You guys can all say what you want about "points", but in this league you get paid for scoring goals (and, to a lesser degree, ridiculous levels of primary assists). Any center would put up points in the middle of Tatar and Gallagher. At the end of the day, Danault is an excellent defensive center with decent (not great) offensive instincts, but in this league it's goal scoring (see Brendan Gallagher) that gets you paid higher than the Eller tier of center. And even Eller scores more than Phil.

    You can "claim" that "he's getting over $5mm, no questions asked." But how much do you think Hoffman is going to sign for? Or next off-season how much Bonino?

    Add to the mix that the contracts you listed were all pre-covid. Teams don't have the cap space to spend in the same ways that the Islanders and Bruins THOUGHT they were going to be able to spend. It was a different world on Nov. 27 2019 and Feb 24th 2020 when Coyle and Pageau were extended. Expecting the same cap hit today is wishful thinking (for players and agents) at best.
    Dec. 8, 2020 at 9:02 a.m.
    #9
    Thread Starter
    HabsFan
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    Quoting: p1015983
    Habs can't pay a third line center over 5M. You have to look long term. Suzuki will make around 8M at some point and Kotkaniemi will probably make around the same if he develops into what they are hoping. Plus what is Romanov going to make in 3-4 years. Caufield has to be added to the picture as well. If Danault wants to stay the max contract he will get is 4 x 4.5M. Its the only deal that makes sense for the future.


    Count Danault as a 2nd C for the next 3years to leave time to KK to fully take that spot.
    And for today NHL all first 3 lines plays equally 15M/game.. than are the PP & PK icetime where on PK Danault takes some minutes and Suzuki & KK would get the PP minutes for an overall avg of 18min each.
    In 3 years where you would need need to pay big $$$ to Suzuki, Romy and KK... you would have Chiarot, Edmunsdon, Byron and maybe Drouin off the book for a 12M$ in savings... so we are fine.
     
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