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Ethical Question

Dec. 2, 2020 at 3:37 p.m.
#1
Once a Kings Fan Too
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Consider the following scenario:

Tampa Bay has acknowledged cap problems.

Much of the difficulty arises from No Trade and No Movement Clauses. Specifically, the refusal of holders to waive them.

From the fact that he was recently put on waivers, I conclude that Tyler Johnson has declined to waive his.

Suppose that Tampa puts him on waivers again, and Anaheim claims him.

Suppose further that the next day, Tampa announces that the Lightning have traded Cal Foote and their 2021 first-round draft pick to Anaheim for Max Jones.

What's your reaction to this remarkable coincidence?
Dec. 2, 2020 at 3:41 p.m.
#2
Ban Price trades
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Consider the following scenario:

Tampa Bay has acknowledged cap problems.

Much of the difficulty arises from No Trade and No Movement Clauses. Specifically, the refusal of holders to waive them.

From the fact that he was recently put on waivers, I conclude that Tyler Johnson has declined to waive his.

Suppose that Tampa puts him on waivers again, and Anaheim claims him.

Suppose further that the next day, Tampa announces that the Lightning have traded Cal Foote and their 2021 first-round draft pick to Anaheim for Max Jones.

What's your reaction to this remarkable coincidence?


I seem to recall this was the primary theory of what Tampa was trying to do when they first waived Johnson. They aren't voiding his NTC. By refusing to waive, Johnson either remains a Bolt or loses agency in regards to where he plays next season.
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Dec. 2, 2020 at 4:04 p.m.
#3
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I dont love the optics behind it. Its essentially a loophole into the No-trade. Its completely legal, but i think its a slap in the face to the player. YOU gave him the no-trade clause. They should be forced to honor it.
Dec. 2, 2020 at 5:53 p.m.
#4
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There is nothing in the rules that's against doing this, but the NHL front office could say it breaks the "spirt of the rules" and call it circumvention and not allow the trade part to go though. The NHLPA would file a grievance, and another owner/GM could file a collusion claim. I think there is just too much risk involved for every team not from TB to consider doing this.

I'm not even sure TB can send TJ though waivers again until the season starts. It depends if they consider the offseason as active roster time or not.
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Dec. 2, 2020 at 7:31 p.m.
#5
torontos finest
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Think this would be considered a nuclear option... as in, there's nothing that's preventing Tampa (and Anaheim) from doing this but the ramifications could be bad.

One thing this would do is devalue a NTC in Tampa.
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Dec. 2, 2020 at 7:55 p.m.
#6
Bo Horvat enjoyer
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Kinda reminds me of the Orpik situation a couple years back, I think it’d be aloud cuz it technically doesn’t go against the rules, but the next team to do it will be punished
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Dec. 8, 2020 at 12:48 a.m.
#7
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I have absolutely zero compassion for Tampa, lol. They just won the Cup. They are absolutely loaded with talent, most of which is locked up on below-market contracts. And, as mentioned before, Tampa gave him the NMC in order to sign him in the first place. At the end of the day, I do think TJ will waive, mostly b/c he'll feel awkward and unwanted in the Tampa locker room if he holds firm. At least he'll get a better chance to play top six on a new team like ANA, NJ, DET, OTT, etc...
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Dec. 8, 2020 at 9:06 a.m.
#8
Former Hockey Fan
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There’s nothing the NHL can do about it. You can’t really change it, since at that point a NTC becomes the exact same as a NMC. I think that players with NTCs need to realize that they’re able to be moved, whether that’s through a buyout, waivers, or expansion.
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Dec. 8, 2020 at 9:08 a.m.
#9
Former Hockey Fan
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Quoting: wabit
There is nothing in the rules that's against doing this, but the NHL front office could say it breaks the "spirt of the rules" and call it circumvention and not allow the trade part to go though. The NHLPA would file a grievance, and another owner/GM could file a collusion claim. I think there is just too much risk involved for every team not from TB to consider doing this.

I'm not even sure TB can send TJ though waivers again until the season starts. It depends if they consider the offseason as active roster time or not.


He didn’t get officially sent down, so he’s still on their roster.
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Dec. 8, 2020 at 2:17 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
He didn’t get officially sent down, so he’s still on their roster.


If he refuses to waive he could get sent to the AHL, right? No way he'll play in the minors.
Dec. 8, 2020 at 2:43 p.m.
#11
torontos finest
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
There’s nothing the NHL can do about it. You can’t really change it, since at that point a NTC becomes the exact same as a NMC. I think that players with NTCs need to realize that they’re able to be moved, whether that’s through a buyout, waivers, or expansion.


If a bunch of teams tried to circumvent NTCs like this the NHLPA would definitely step in.

I think at worst it makes a NTC in Tampa essentially meaningless. Why would you take less money for a NTC if they're going to try to get around it in the future?
Dec. 8, 2020 at 3:48 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: Brian2016
If he refuses to waive he could get sent to the AHL, right? No way he'll play in the minors.


They could send him to the AHL, but the cap savings is minimal and he would get paid the same. So TJ has $18m worth of reasons to play in the AHL if Tampa decided to send him there.
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