Forums/Armchair-GM

3 Way

Created by: Eddy
Initial Creation Date: Dec 9, 2020
Published: Dec 9, 2020 at 4:26
Team: 2020-21 Pittsburgh Penguins
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Granlund, Mikael1$2,000,000
Trades
PIT
  1. Fleury, Marc-André ($3,500,000 retained)
  2. 2021 1st round pick (VGK)
Additional Details:
Retained salary is by NJD. Fleury is 100% off Vegas books.
VGK
  1. McCann, Jared
  2. DeSmith, Casey
PIT
  1. Zacha, Pavel
NJD
  1. Sceviour, Colton
  2. Riikola, Juuso
  3. 2021 1st round pick (VGK)
  4. 2021 2nd round pick (PIT)
Buyouts
  • Jack Johnson: $1,166,667
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Nick Bjugstad: $2,050,000 (50%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
PIT
PIT
WSH
ANA
2022
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2023
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$81,391,842$0$850,000$108,158

Roster

Left WingCenterRight Wing
PIT
Guentzel, Jake
$6,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
PIT
Crosby, Sidney
$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
PIT
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 2
PIT
Zucker, Jason
$5,500,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 2
Granlund, Mikael
$2,000,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
$1,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
NJD
Zacha, Pavel
$2,250,000
C
RFA - 2
PIT
Rust, Bryan
$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
PIT
Jankowski, Mark
$700,000
LW, C
RFA - 1
PIT
Blueger, Teddy
$750,000
C, LW
RFA - 1
PIT
Tanev, Brandon
$3,500,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 5
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
$4,100,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Letang, Kris
$7,250,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
PIT
Jarry, Tristan
$3,500,000
G
UFA - 3
PIT
Matheson, Michael
$4,875,000
LD
UFA - 6
PIT
Marino, John
$925,000
RD
UFA - 1
VGK
Fleury, Marc-André
$3,500,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
PIT
Pettersson, Marcus
$4,025,175
LD
UFA - 5
PIT
Ceci, Cody
$1,250,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
PIT
Lafferty, Sam
$750,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
PIT
Rodrigues, Evan
$700,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
PIT
Ruhwedel, Chad
$700,000
RD
UFA - 1

Special Teams

Power Play 1
Granlund, M.
Guentzel, J.
Crosby, S.
Letang, K.
Malkin, E.
Power Play 2
Rust, B.
Zacha, P.
Kapanen, K.
Zucker, J.
Matheson, M.
Penalty Kill 1
Jankowski, M.
Tanev, B.
Dumoulin, B.
Ceci, C.
Penalty Kill 2
Aston-Reese, Z.
Rust, B.
Pettersson, M.
Marino, J.

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Dec 9, 2020 at 5:31
#1
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,532
So, Fleury ($3.5Mx2), Zacha, for McCann, DeSmith, Sceviour, Riikola, 2nd?

How'bout no?

Zacha is not that great of a C. Good defensively, but HORRIBLE at faceoff and not physical. Also, DeSmith might be better on the ice vs Fleury. There is zero reason for Pittsburgh to include McCann.

Fleury ($3.5Mx2), Zacha, for DeSmith, Sceviour, Riikola
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 9, 2020 at 6:57
#2
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 204
Likes: 36
Quoting: Yojimbo
So, Fleury ($3.5Mx2), Zacha, for McCann, DeSmith, Sceviour, Riikola, 2nd?

How'bout no?

Zacha is not that great of a C. Good defensively, but HORRIBLE at faceoff and not physical. Also, DeSmith might be better on the ice vs Fleury. There is zero reason for Pittsburgh to include McCann.

Fleury ($3.5Mx2), Zacha, for DeSmith, Sceviour, Riikola


The other teams would not agree to give Pitt Fleury, No. 6 overall pick Zacha and cap space for Desmith, Sceviour and Riikola. Other teams would easily beat that offer. Zacha is a great player who has not came close to reaching his potential. Not many young players are good at faceoffs. Lets say he gets marginally better. Great. You aren`t getting Zacha to win faceoffs. You have Sidney Crosby and Teddy Blueger/Jankowski for that. Pens need a defensively reliable 3rd line center with scoring punch to provide depth scoring. Pens are successful when they have a good 3rd line that can score. Pens are not successful when their bottom two lines are offensive blackholes. Pens have enough defensive minded/physical forwards (Tanev, Jankowski, Aston-Reese, Rust, Blueger).

I would rather have Granlund than McCann.

No, Desmith is not even close to Fleury, even at 36. That`s absurd. Plus Fleury`s impact on teammates alone provides value. Great mentor for Jarry too.

In a real world scenario this is what the trade would have to look like in order to make sense for everyone.

Pens perspective: Solid 1B goalie. Huge boost to team experience, morale and overall team culture. Cap space to sign Granlund, Haula, Chara, Kovalchuk, Perry etc...2nd round pick given up means nothing as they are all in this year and next.

Vegas: Clears cap space without moving one of top players. Gets decent backup. Loses 1st rounder but this team is a contender so they are willing to do so. Gets good center/wing to compliment middle 6.

Devils: Cap space not an issue. Fleury contract will expire as Jack Hughes contract does. In return they get two depth pieces and a 1st and 2nd rounder. They give up Zacha, although a very good player who has yet to reach his potential he is somewhat expendable because NJD have a lot of centers.

This deal works. Could there be small tweaks in order to get it done? Yes but the overall framework makes sense and the value to each team is about on par. You have to consider that the deal also involves Granlund (or whoever else they decide to sign). So giving up the amount that Pitt did in these deals doesn`t matter nearly as much as if they weren`t able to sign anyone.
Dec 9, 2020 at 6:59
#3
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 204
Likes: 36
Quoting: Eddy
The other teams would not agree to give Pitt Fleury, No. 6 overall pick Zacha and cap space for Desmith, Sceviour and Riikola. Other teams would easily beat that offer. Zacha is a great player who has not came close to reaching his potential. Not many young players are good at faceoffs. Lets say he gets marginally better. Great. You aren`t getting Zacha to win faceoffs. You have Sidney Crosby and Teddy Blueger/Jankowski for that. Pens need a defensively reliable 3rd line center with scoring punch to provide depth scoring. Pens are successful when they have a good 3rd line that can score. Pens are not successful when their bottom two lines are offensive blackholes. Pens have enough defensive minded/physical forwards (Tanev, Jankowski, Aston-Reese, Rust, Blueger).

I would rather have Granlund than McCann.

No, Desmith is not even close to Fleury, even at 36. That`s absurd. Plus Fleury`s impact on teammates alone provides value. Great mentor for Jarry too.

In a real world scenario this is what the trade would have to look like in order to make sense for everyone.

Pens perspective: Solid 1B goalie. Huge boost to team experience, morale and overall team culture. Cap space to sign Granlund, Haula, Chara, Kovalchuk, Perry etc...2nd round pick given up means nothing as they are all in this year and next.

Vegas: Clears cap space without moving one of top players. Gets decent backup. Loses 1st rounder but this team is a contender so they are willing to do so. Gets good center/wing to compliment middle 6.

Devils: Cap space not an issue. Fleury contract will expire as Jack Hughes contract does. In return they get two depth pieces and a 1st and 2nd rounder. They give up Zacha, although a very good player who has yet to reach his potential he is somewhat expendable because NJD have a lot of centers.

This deal works. Could there be small tweaks in order to get it done? Yes but the overall framework makes sense and the value to each team is about on par. You have to consider that the deal also involves Granlund (or whoever else they decide to sign). So giving up the amount that Pitt did in these deals doesn`t matter nearly as much as if they weren`t able to sign anyone. The only team I see saying no to this is NJD because they may want to try and sign someone and they may want to hold on to Zacha.
Dec 9, 2020 at 8:54
#4
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,330
Likes: 454
One of the Penguins roster advantages is having Jarry and DeSmith not taking a huge part of the salary cap. And if Jarry plays even close to last year, it’s a steal. And DeSmith is a NHL capable back-up. He’s done it. He’s has NHL experience and good numbers. He’s was a great AHL goalie. We could find other areas of need to take up cap space IMO. If Jarry doesn’t play well, we are F-ed anyways. They are gonna let him play. And I like Zacha, but he’s not the type of 3C the Pens need or want. They have to big bigger hitters and better two-way players than Zacha is. And I would rather have McCann. And Sid/Geno lines can score. With the 3rd chipping in some.
Dec 9, 2020 at 8:57
#5
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,532
Quoting: Eddy
The other teams would not agree to give Pitt Fleury, No. 6 overall pick Zacha and cap space for Desmith, Sceviour and Riikola. Other teams would easily beat that offer. Zacha is a great player who has not came close to reaching his potential. Not many young players are good at faceoffs. Lets say he gets marginally better. Great. You aren`t getting Zacha to win faceoffs. You have Sidney Crosby and Teddy Blueger/Jankowski for that. Pens need a defensively reliable 3rd line center with scoring punch to provide depth scoring. Pens are successful when they have a good 3rd line that can score. Pens are not successful when their bottom two lines are offensive blackholes. Pens have enough defensive minded/physical forwards (Tanev, Jankowski, Aston-Reese, Rust, Blueger).

I would rather have Granlund than McCann.

No, Desmith is not even close to Fleury, even at 36. That`s absurd. Plus Fleury`s impact on teammates alone provides value. Great mentor for Jarry too.

In a real world scenario this is what the trade would have to look like in order to make sense for everyone.

Pens perspective: Solid 1B goalie. Huge boost to team experience, morale and overall team culture. Cap space to sign Granlund, Haula, Chara, Kovalchuk, Perry etc...2nd round pick given up means nothing as they are all in this year and next.

Vegas: Clears cap space without moving one of top players. Gets decent backup. Loses 1st rounder but this team is a contender so they are willing to do so. Gets good center/wing to compliment middle 6.

Devils: Cap space not an issue. Fleury contract will expire as Jack Hughes contract does. In return they get two depth pieces and a 1st and 2nd rounder. They give up Zacha, although a very good player who has yet to reach his potential he is somewhat expendable because NJD have a lot of centers.

This deal works. Could there be small tweaks in order to get it done? Yes but the overall framework makes sense and the value to each team is about on par. You have to consider that the deal also involves Granlund (or whoever else they decide to sign). So giving up the amount that Pitt did in these deals doesn`t matter nearly as much as if they weren`t able to sign anyone.


Saying Fleury is still a 1B is just flat out homerism looking back on him cracking jokes and smiling.

Adding McCann to this trade has literally ZERO to do with getting Granlund.

"Zacha is a great player who has not came close to reaching his potential" um... yep. Being a top 6 pick is irrelevant when you don't live up to it.

The deal that I suggested is still overpay by the Pens, done solely for homers that want Fleury back, at three times the cap hit of DeSmith.
Dec 10, 2020 at 12:13
#6
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 15,437
Likes: 3,862
People need to stop sending Fleury to the penguins. We just don't need a 3.5 million backup. We got other problems on this team to fix.
Dec 10, 2020 at 1:55
#7
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 204
Likes: 36
Quoting: Yojimbo
Saying Fleury is still a 1B is just flat out homerism looking back on him cracking jokes and smiling.

Adding McCann to this trade has literally ZERO to do with getting Granlund.

"Zacha is a great player who has not came close to reaching his potential" um... yep. Being a top 6 pick is irrelevant when you don't live up to it.

The deal that I suggested is still overpay by the Pens, done solely for homers that want Fleury back, at three times the cap hit of DeSmith.


Fleury is most definitely a solid 1B. Perhaps the best 1B in the league. There is not a single person in the Pens organization who wouldn`t want to bring Fleury back in that role if the deal made sense. Jarry is still largely unproven. The Pens need to have a backup plan. Casey Desmith is not that plan. You can`t seriously argue that bringing Fleury in for 2 years in a backup/1B role would not be beneficial for this team.

Yes it does. Moving McCanns cap hit allows the Penguins to sign Granlund. Simple addition and subtraction my guy.

Zacha "not living up to his potential" is a little extreme. He has not been put in a position to succeed in Jersey. How many times has this happened to players like him? High draft pick with loads of potential gets a new home and BOOM all of a sudden he is a star. He is a great player. No way around it. Also, Pens don`t need him to score 40 goals. They have plenty of players for that. They need speed and offensive contribution from the 3rd line. He is more than capable of doing that. His 6 3 200+ frame isn`t bad either. He doesn`t use it as much as he should, but again that could change in Pitt under Sullivan.
Dec 10, 2020 at 2:29
#8
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,532
Quoting: Eddy
Fleury is most definitely a solid 1B. Perhaps the best 1B in the league. There is not a single person in the Pens organization who wouldn`t want to bring Fleury back in that role if the deal made sense. Jarry is still largely unproven. The Pens need to have a backup plan. Casey Desmith is not that plan. You can`t seriously argue that bringing Fleury in for 2 years in a backup/1B role would not be beneficial for this team.

Yes it does. Moving McCanns cap hit allows the Penguins to sign Granlund. Simple addition and subtraction my guy.

Zacha "not living up to his potential" is a little extreme. He has not been put in a position to succeed in Jersey. How many times has this happened to players like him? High draft pick with loads of potential gets a new home and BOOM all of a sudden he is a star. He is a great player. No way around it. Also, Pens don`t need him to score 40 goals. They have plenty of players for that. They need speed and offensive contribution from the 3rd line. He is more than capable of doing that. His 6 3 200+ frame isn`t bad either. He doesn`t use it as much as he should, but again that could change in Pitt under Sullivan.


Would I rather have Fleury over DeSmith? Yes
Would I rather have Fleury at $3.5M over DeSmith at $1.25M? No
Would I rather have Fleury at $3.5M over DeSmith at $1.25M, plus the at the cost of McCann? No squared

If you don't waste $3.5M cap space on Fleury, you can easily sign Granlund and keep McCann.

Zacha, there are plenty of ways around it. It is called reality, as opposed to the speculation and flat out ignoring reality that you are doing. He could drastically improve his faceoffs and he would still be horrible. He's not physical, he's not going to be, and Sullivan is NOT a guy that is going to try to get him to be physical. The problem with the Pens prior 3C's was lack of production while still being able to do the other things. Zacha only gets the D side right, that is just more of the same for the Pens. It doesn't solve anything. You could take the 1st out of that trade and NJ still wins that trade hands down.

Caps fans like this AGM though...
 
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