Forums/Armchair-GM

Go For It

Created by: Eddy
Initial Creation Date: Dec 12, 2020
Published: Dec 12, 2020 at 8:25
Team: 2020-21 Pittsburgh Penguins
Team Explanation
3 Way Trade

Pens are all in. They win the cup with this team, no doubt.

Granlund signing...try him on 3rd line C. If he doesn`t work there you can make a move to somewhere else.

I don`t want to hear anything about Chara. Every team in the league would be thrilled to sign him. He is elite in the role that he plays on a team. There is only one Zdeno Chara in the NHL.
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Chara, Zdeno1$2,000,000
Granlund, Mikael1$2,000,000
Trades
PIT
  1. Fleury, Marc-André ($3,500,000 retained)
  2. Pacioretty, Max ($2,000,000 retained)
  3. 2021 1st round pick (VGK)
Additional Details:
Vegas retains Patches. NJD retains Fleury.
VGK
  1. DeSmith, Casey
  2. Sceviour, Colton
  3. Pettersson, Marcus
  4. 2021 2nd round pick (PIT)
PIT
  1. Zetterlund, Fabian
Additional Details:
Retains Fleury salary
NJD
  1. McCann, Jared
  2. Riikola, Juuso
  3. 2021 1st round pick (VGK)
Buyouts
  • Jack Johnson: $1,166,667
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Nick Bjugstad: $2,050,000 (50%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
PIT
WSH
ANA
PIT
2022
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2023
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$81,366,667$0$1,580,000$133,333

Roster

Left WingCenterRight Wing
PIT
Guentzel, Jake
$6,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
PIT
Crosby, Sidney
$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
PIT
Zucker, Jason
$5,500,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 3
VGK
Pacioretty, Max
$5,000,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 2
PIT
Rust, Bryan
$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
$1,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Granlund, Mikael
$2,000,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
PIT
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 2
PIT
Jankowski, Mark
$700,000
LW, C
RFA - 1
PIT
Blueger, Teddy
$750,000
C, LW
RFA - 1
PIT
Tanev, Brandon
$3,500,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 5
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
$4,100,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Letang, Kris
$7,250,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
PIT
Jarry, Tristan
$3,500,000
G
UFA - 3
PIT
Matheson, Michael
$4,875,000
LD
UFA - 6
PIT
Marino, John
$925,000
RD
UFA - 1
VGK
Fleury, Marc-André
$3,500,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
Chara, Zdeno
$2,000,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
PIT
Ceci, Cody
$1,250,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
PIT
Rodrigues, Evan
$700,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
PIT
Ruhwedel, Chad
$700,000
RD
UFA - 1

Special Teams

Power Play 1
Granlund, M.
Guentzel, J.
Crosby, S.
Letang, K.
Malkin, E.
Power Play 2
Rust, B.
Kapanen, K.
Pacioretty, M.
Zucker, J.
Matheson, M.
Penalty Kill 1
Blueger, T.
Aston-Reese, Z.
Chara, Z.
Ceci, C.
Penalty Kill 2
Jankowski, M.
Tanev, B.
Dumoulin, B.
Marino, J.

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Dec 12, 2020 at 8:50
#1
Thank You GMJR
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 15,076
Likes: 6,421
I would consider that patches trade tbh but please for the love of God dont sign chara.
Pens3lieve liked this.
Dec 12, 2020 at 9:32
#2
Hockey IQ
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 932
Quoting: mhockey91
I would consider that patches trade tbh but please for the love of God dont sign chara.


he has been great but I said "has been."

his stats have dropped up a cliff the last couple years----which is understandable he's like 55 and jagr 2.0 --- he should retire....lol he's not quite that bad.....
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 12, 2020 at 9:48
#3
Thank You GMJR
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 15,076
Likes: 6,421
Quoting: Pens3lieve
he has been great but I said "has been."

his stats have dropped up a cliff the last couple years----which is understandable he's like 55 and jagr 2.0 --- he should retire....lol he's not quite that bad.....


I agree he should retire. chara is a legend and just watching him play now is kinda sad. most HOF guys retire while they're still good players. Crosby will probably never put up a season under a 60 point pace. once his game drops below that he'll probably call it quits. he's not gonna be a 3C for an awful pens team in the future
Pens3lieve liked this.
Dec 13, 2020 at 1:55
#4
VGKNation702
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,553
Likes: 502
We aren’t going to retain on patches. 95% chance he doesn’t get moved period, but you can take no retention to the bank
Dec 13, 2020 at 4:37
#5
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 15,346
Likes: 3,845
we aren't giving up a solid 2LD and a young player who is on the verge of breaking out for a backup goaltender and patches.
Way too much for a guy they are trying to move for cap reasons to begin with. And way to much for MAF. The absolute last thing this team needs is a 3.5 mil back up goaltender especially in a season that only has 56 games.
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 14, 2020 at 12:35
#6
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 204
Likes: 36
Quoting: mhockey91
I would consider that patches trade tbh but please for the love of God dont sign chara.


I gotta disagree. Chara is still an extremely valuable piece. Especially in the role he would play on this team. We don`t need him dancing around scoring 20 goals. We need him to provide leadership, size and toughness in a 3rd pairing, PK role. He can still excel in that role. Every player and coach in the Pens organization would be ecstatic to add Chara. He is one of a kind even if he isn`t what he used to be.
Dec 14, 2020 at 12:41
#7
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 204
Likes: 36
Quoting: pharrow
we aren't giving up a solid 2LD and a young player who is on the verge of breaking out for a backup goaltender and patches.
Way too much for a guy they are trying to move for cap reasons to begin with. And way to much for MAF. The absolute last thing this team needs is a 3.5 mil back up goaltender especially in a season that only has 56 games.


Solid 2LD who is replaceable. MP is not anything spectacular. He is expendable.

A bit of a reach to say McCann is on verge of breaking out. He has been in the league for 6 years. He is what he is. Good player. Not great. Doesn`t bring anything unique or spectacular. Has a good shot and he might be able to score 20 goals consistently but finding a 20 goal scorer in the NHL isn`t very difficult these days.

You are putting a lot of trust in Jarry. He has never been a #1. He has played less than 70 NHL games in his career. I think the Pens would be wise to have an experienced backup that can help guide him and act as a safety net if Jarry can`t handle being the guy. I think the organization would be wise to look into getting an experienced and capable backup. In this scenario they get that while also adding another top player. Spending 7m total on goalies isn`t that bad.

The team fits under the cap, IMO greatly improved in all areas as well. You can`t honestly say that the team as it currently stands is even nearly as good as this team with these moves and signings.
Dec 14, 2020 at 1:44
#8
Thank You GMJR
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 15,076
Likes: 6,421
Quoting: Eddy
I gotta disagree. Chara is still an extremely valuable piece. Especially in the role he would play on this team. We don`t need him dancing around scoring 20 goals. We need him to provide leadership, size and toughness in a 3rd pairing, PK role. He can still excel in that role. Every player and coach in the Pens organization would be ecstatic to add Chara. He is one of a kind even if he isn`t what he used to be.


Dude he was awful in the play ins and is 43. Usually I’d just shrug off play in performance because of the whole COVID pause, but in his case, being 43 years old, I would be very hesitant about giving him a contract next season. There is a reason he hasn’t resigned with Boston yet. He’d be 44 years old going into next years playoffs. MTL showed Pittsburgh we have to get younger and faster like in 2016 and 2017. Chara doesn’t accomplish that.
Dec 14, 2020 at 2:07
#9
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 15,346
Likes: 3,845
Quoting: Eddy
Solid 2LD who is replaceable. MP is not anything spectacular. He is expendable.

A bit of a reach to say McCann is on verge of breaking out. He has been in the league for 6 years. He is what he is. Good player. Not great. Doesn`t bring anything unique or spectacular. Has a good shot and he might be able to score 20 goals consistently but finding a 20 goal scorer in the NHL isn`t very difficult these days.

You are putting a lot of trust in Jarry. He has never been a #1. He has played less than 70 NHL games in his career. I think the Pens would be wise to have an experienced backup that can help guide him and act as a safety net if Jarry can`t handle being the guy. I think the organization would be wise to look into getting an experienced and capable backup. In this scenario they get that while also adding another top player. Spending 7m total on goalies isn`t that bad.

The team fits under the cap, IMO greatly improved in all areas as well. You can`t honestly say that the team as it currently stands is even nearly as good as this team with these moves and signings.


everyone is replaceable till you don't have anyone to replace them with. You replaced Pettersson with Matheson. Which right now, is a hope and dream.
No on knows what we have there. We could end up with an awful defense worse than last years.
And McCann is only 24 years old. Last year he was 23. Most guys are just getting into the league at 21-22 years old. Let alone breaking out. No he's not Jake, he's not netting 40 goals. But if you don't think after the streak he had he's capable of 30 you are mistaken. Consistency is the hardest part for a younger player. Instead of giving up on him, you let him figure it out. The speed and the talent is there. A bit more consistency in his role would help. Giving up two good young players for an aging one and a backup goalie is unreal. No way. There are 56 games next year. We'll be fine.
Dec 14, 2020 at 5:30
#10
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 204
Likes: 36
Quoting: pharrow
everyone is replaceable till you don't have anyone to replace them with. You replaced Pettersson with Matheson. Which right now, is a hope and dream.
No on knows what we have there. We could end up with an awful defense worse than last years.
And McCann is only 24 years old. Last year he was 23. Most guys are just getting into the league at 21-22 years old. Let alone breaking out. No he's not Jake, he's not netting 40 goals. But if you don't think after the streak he had he's capable of 30 you are mistaken. Consistency is the hardest part for a younger player. Instead of giving up on him, you let him figure it out. The speed and the talent is there. A bit more consistency in his role would help. Giving up two good young players for an aging one and a backup goalie is unreal. No way. There are 56 games next year. We'll be fine.


You have to consider Pens situation and the overall team additions and subtractions as a result of the deal.

You lose MP and McCann. Sure, two good pieces right now and the future. Could McCann score 30 (82 game fixed) next year? Maybe. Probably not on the third line where he is currently slotted though. McCann is a good player. That is what he is. He will not be a consistent 30 goal scorer in this league. He wasn`t even a prolific scorer in juniors. Max P would be much more likely to score 30 and is an upgrade no matter how you slice it. Granlund also has a higher ceiling. You also bring him in as a result of this deal as well. Pens are all in for 2 years so the value of taking a chance on McCann to MAYBE amount to a 30 goal scorer (IMO quite unlikely) is void because you are replacing him for 2 years with an actual 30 goal scorer and a guy who truly has elite potential in Granlund.

You lose MP and replace him with Chara. Chara fits the role MP will need to play this year better. Can`t argue that. Matheson might not work out. That`s true. I anticipate he is at least a serviceable dman though. The Pens also have POJ and other prospects who could step up this year if need be. Pens also need to sign Marino next year. That would be difficult to keep Letang, Dumo, MP, Matheson and Marino all above 4M a year. One of them is going to have to either way - the most logical is MP as he has value. No other team would take Matheson right now.

Fleury > Desmith. Jarry has less than 70 NHL games experience. That is a lot of trust in someone who has yet to truly establish himself. If he doesn`t play as a top 15 NHL goalie this year then we are screwed. I feel like having Fleury as a plan B (someone who can play a lot of games and ALSO act as a mentor to Jarry is very important). This would also be a huge boost to team morale and chemistry. I think everyone in the org. would be happy to have him back as a safety net. Hopefully Jarry doesn`t need him but It would be wise to have that insurance there.

So all in all this deal makes the team MUCH better. Especially considering their window is 2 years. So they are much better in the 2 years we are discussing.

In: Chara, Granlund, Max P, Fleury, Zetterlund
Out: McCann, MP, Desmith, Riikola, Sceviour

Max P >>> McCann
Chara > MP (in terms of the role these players would be playing and intangibles brought to the table. I would choose 1 year of Chara over 1 year of MP NO PROBLEM)
Fleury > Desmith
Riikola and Sceviour replaced with Granlund. Or Haula. Or Perry. Or Kovalchuk.

Bottom line: This team is better positioned to compete for a Stanley Cup during their 2 year window. I would feel quite confident that if the Pens had this roster they would have as good of a shot as anyone to win it all this year. I can`t say the same for how it is currently structured in real life.
Dec 14, 2020 at 5:32
#11
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 204
Likes: 36
Quoting: mhockey91
Dude he was awful in the play ins and is 43. Usually I’d just shrug off play in performance because of the whole COVID pause, but in his case, being 43 years old, I would be very hesitant about giving him a contract next season. There is a reason he hasn’t resigned with Boston yet. He’d be 44 years old going into next years playoffs. MTL showed Pittsburgh we have to get younger and faster like in 2016 and 2017. Chara doesn’t accomplish that.


Yeah I think he had a tough time ramping back up to speed. Again I know he isn`t what he used to be but I`ll take him in a bottom pairing, protectionist, PK role. I think he is more than capable of taking care of that. Boston still played him as their top Dman along with McAvoy. He would struggle in that position but thankfully would not need to do that with Pens in that role.

I agree on speed but there is quite a lot of speed elsewhere in the lineup. I think it`s important to have an element of size and toughness. Chara provides that like NOBODY else in the history of the game and that part of things has not changed with age. He is as terrifying as ever, especially to these young guys coming into the league.
Dec 14, 2020 at 8:26
#12
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 15,346
Likes: 3,845
Quoting: Eddy
You have to consider Pens situation and the overall team additions and subtractions as a result of the deal.

You lose MP and McCann. Sure, two good pieces right now and the future. Could McCann score 30 (82 game fixed) next year? Maybe. Probably not on the third line where he is currently slotted though. McCann is a good player. That is what he is. He will not be a consistent 30 goal scorer in this league. He wasn`t even a prolific scorer in juniors. Max P would be much more likely to score 30 and is an upgrade no matter how you slice it. Granlund also has a higher ceiling. You also bring him in as a result of this deal as well. Pens are all in for 2 years so the value of taking a chance on McCann to MAYBE amount to a 30 goal scorer (IMO quite unlikely) is void because you are replacing him for 2 years with an actual 30 goal scorer and a guy who truly has elite potential in Granlund.

You lose MP and replace him with Chara. Chara fits the role MP will need to play this year better. Can`t argue that. Matheson might not work out. That`s true. I anticipate he is at least a serviceable dman though. The Pens also have POJ and other prospects who could step up this year if need be. Pens also need to sign Marino next year. That would be difficult to keep Letang, Dumo, MP, Matheson and Marino all above 4M a year. One of them is going to have to either way - the most logical is MP as he has value. No other team would take Matheson right now.

Fleury > Desmith. Jarry has less than 70 NHL games experience. That is a lot of trust in someone who has yet to truly establish himself. If he doesn`t play as a top 15 NHL goalie this year then we are screwed. I feel like having Fleury as a plan B (someone who can play a lot of games and ALSO act as a mentor to Jarry is very important). This would also be a huge boost to team morale and chemistry. I think everyone in the org. would be happy to have him back as a safety net. Hopefully Jarry doesn`t need him but It would be wise to have that insurance there.

So all in all this deal makes the team MUCH better. Especially considering their window is 2 years. So they are much better in the 2 years we are discussing.

In: Chara, Granlund, Max P, Fleury, Zetterlund
Out: McCann, MP, Desmith, Riikola, Sceviour

Max P >>> McCann
Chara > MP (in terms of the role these players would be playing and intangibles brought to the table. I would choose 1 year of Chara over 1 year of MP NO PROBLEM)
Fleury > Desmith
Riikola and Sceviour replaced with Granlund. Or Haula. Or Perry. Or Kovalchuk.

Bottom line: This team is better positioned to compete for a Stanley Cup during their 2 year window. I would feel quite confident that if the Pens had this roster they would have as good of a shot as anyone to win it all this year. I can`t say the same for how it is currently structured in real life.


your thinking here is all wrong.
Lets just break this down.
1st you kill the blue line. Which frankly has more of an effect than adding a winger. Because no one knows what we are getting out of Matheson yet.
Chara, does not replace Pettersson. Chara can't skate. He's a statue. Teams dump it in and then blow past him to get it. It's an obvious hole in Boston's defense in 5v5 hockey. He was basically a PK guy and 3LD in Boston because of this. He does not replace Pettersson. Tearing up the blue line is the fastest way to kill a team. See the Cole trade for Brassard. See TOR. See a whole lot of other examples. If you have a solid blue line, you don't mess with it. The penguins have 2/3 of a solid blueline with potential to have 3/3 of a solid blue line. There is no need to have 1/2 of a solid blueline because we traded our 2nd pairing guy.

As for McCann, clearly it's hard to score 30 goals on the 3rd line. That has a lot to do with them not getting minutes where the top 2 lines should get close to 20 a game.
But they didn't trade a 1st + a solid prospect to play Kap on the 3rd line and have the same issues of not hitting his potential in a limited role on the 3rd line.
Is the difference between Kap in that top 6 over Max worth destroying the blueline. No it's not.

Right now the penguins have one of the best top 4 in the whole league. Letang Dumo is a solid 1st pairing. Pettersson Marino is as good a 2nd pair as any in the league. It's those two pairing that are going to help the penguins top 2 lines play in the other teams zone, instead of stuck in their own, like last year when JJ was playing 1LD. If you want to have better production from your forwards it starts on the blueline.

As far as this constant MAF thing. My god, just give that up. We get it, penguins fans like MAF, they are attached to him. It doesn't mean this team is in position to spend 3.5 million on a goalie for 2 years. They aren't. This season is 56 games. They will probably want Jarry to play 40 of them so he's in form if they manage to make the playoffs between the slow starts and the blood bath division they have them playing in. DeSmith is fine for 16 games if not less.
 
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