Forums/Armchair-GM

Should Not Have Signed Bogosian

Created by: AnalyticsGeek
Initial Creation Date: Dec 15, 2020
Published: Dec 15, 2020 at 6:11
Team: 2020-21 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
Honestly, I liked pretty much all the moves Kyle Dubas made this offseason, but there was one in particular that both surprised and confused me. I think it was a mistake signing Zach Bogosian since I don't feel he is an impactful player at NHL level anymore.

The thing is, Zach has never been a smart player. He has outstanding skating ability and puck skills that allows him to generate a lot of offence, but his game away from the puck is lacking. He is slow to react to the play and is constantly out of position allowing the opposition to easily get a scoring chance. That's why he accumulates so many hits and blocked shots, he's always having to defend in an under siege situation similar to Jack Johnson.

It is true that he has mostly played on bad teams throughout his career, therefore, it might explain his poor results. He did have a solid playoffs with Tampa, during the first 3 rounds, his on-ice impacts were excellent. However, he was most frequently sharing the ice with Hedman, Point and Kucherov, 3 of the best possessing driving players in their position. He was exposed against Dallas and got benched. In Toronto, he will be in a sheltered role playing with excellent possession players again, but I'm still not convinced.

Honestly, if the Leafs wanted a big body defenceman, they could've just resigned Ceci. He's not smart either and doesn't generate any offence but at least he doesn't get caved in every shift.
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Martin, Matt1$950,000
Trades
TOR
  1. Clifford, Kyle
STL
  1. 2021 4th round pick (TOR)
TOR
  1. Ceci, Cody
PIT
  1. Bogosian, Zach
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
Buried
  • Pierre Engvall: $175,000 ($1,250,000)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2023
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$81,324,741$0$0$175,259

Roster

Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,640,250
C
UFA - 4
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 5
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$1,645,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Vesey, Jimmy
$900,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 3
TOR
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
STL
Clifford, Kyle
$1,000,000
LW
UFA - 2
TOR
Thornton, Joe
$700,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 1
Martin, Matt
$950,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Brodie, TJ
$5,000,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 4
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$5,625,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 4
TOR
Holl, Justin
$2,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Campbell, Jack
$1,650,000
G
UFA - 2
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$874,125
LD/RD
RFA - 1
PIT
Ceci, Cody
$1,250,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Boyd, Travis
$700,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
TOR
Simmonds, Wayne
$1,500,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Marincin, Martin
$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Barabanov, Alexander
$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
TOR
Lehtonen, Mikko
$925,000
LD
UFA - 1

Special Teams

Power Play 1
Nylander, W.
Tavares, J.
Matthews, A.
Marner, M.
Rielly, M.
Power Play 2
Kerfoot, A.
Thornton, J.
Vesey, J.
Spezza, J.
Ceci, C.
Penalty Kill 1
Clifford, K.
Martin, M.
Muzzin, J.
Brodie, T.
Penalty Kill 2
Mikheyev, I.
Hyman, Z.
Dermott, T.
Holl, J.

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Dec 15, 2020 at 7:35
#26
Thread Starter
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Quoting: yikes
Bogo can be buried for zero cap hit i believe - i think dubas only signed him for playoff depth so i think they'll keep him even if he plays a majority of the year in the A


Quoting: palhal
Not a mistake. If plays like he did he with Tampa...it's a bargain. If plays like he did with the Sabres, then it kinda of a waste. If the rules of sending a player "to the minors" remain the same as before he can be send to Marlies and he doesn't affect the cap.
I'm hoping Brodie plays up to 5m X 4 year contract Thought in Covid times there were better value available.


Quoting: Radu47
Oh wow good call indeed it can be done. Didn't know that deals above 1M could be 2 way (just very rare)... especially with an ntc included. Good ol' Dubas.


Yeah that’s true. I always waive him for my armchair teams anyway lol!
Dec 15, 2020 at 7:37
#27
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Quoting: Florida_Man_Maroon
As a Tampa fan who watched Bogosian throughout these playoffs, he is a great depth defender and it was clear his senses have improved. Instead of sending muffins up the middle of the ice, he would make the smart play and find the winger along the boards or chip it out of the zone safely. He does still occasionally make mistakes but he has really gotten better at reading the play.


Thanks for the insight. If he plays as good as that for the Leafs, then he’ll solidify the 3rd pair.
Florida_Man_Maroon liked this.
Dec 15, 2020 at 7:38
#28
Cregg Button is dumb
Joined: Mar 2019
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Quoting: Barilko14
No, he's supposed to be an solid PKer (which will help). Should be fine in 3rd pair min when needed, and can provide a different element if Leafs are lacking physicality in a tough playoff series.

Also, if it's not working out, considering he's not making big $$, shouldn't be too tough to move.

p.s. "He has outstanding skating ability and puck skills that allows him to generate a lot of offence" - I don't think I've even seen Bogosian described this way. I view him as a Polak type.


He forgot the “said no one ever” part
Barilko14 liked this.
Dec 15, 2020 at 7:43
#29
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
mfw ceci

bogosian might be just as bad as ceci, but he at least has some veteran presence, he hits/fights sometimes, and is aggressive and tough. Ceci idk if I'd describe as any of those things


Quoting: mhockey91
See how well that worked out for Ceci?

Hainsey was a much better player than both Ceci and Bogo. Hainsey was great for us in the playoffs. Extremely reliable and played basically the most minutes on a Stanley Cup winning roster


Quoting: faulkmydzingel
No mistake at all in signing Bogosion. He will be a solid 6th d man. He has a Stanley cup. In the games he played for Tampa he logged some solid minutes. He brings a physical presence. And we didn’t have to give up Connor brown to get him. He is not Cody Ceci one bit.


Ceci is not a good player by any means but I don’t think he was as bad as everyone makes him either. xGA/60 & ca/60 ranked in the 85th percentile. For a guy playing way over his head, that’s decent.
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Dec 15, 2020 at 7:45
#30
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Quoting: aadoyle
even so if Keefe decides Muzzin-Brodie will be the top pair Rielly-Brodie can be the 2nd pair as like Rielly-Hainsey, Rielly can take on all the offensive responsibilities and Bogo never passes blue line and takes on all the defensive responsibilities. Could see the return of 20 goal rielly again lul.


I wouldn’t want Bogo & Rielly on the same pairing. Bogo is an offensive defenceman, he is not good away from the puck. I’d feel more comfortable if Rielly played with Dermott or Holl.
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 15, 2020 at 7:46
#31
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Quoting: ForsbergForVezina
Thought it was a weird move too. They took so many steps forward this offseason and this felt like a (small) step back. No risk involved really, unless Keefe is married to playing him every night (which I doubt) but a strange signing nonetheless


Yes I agree.
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Dec 15, 2020 at 7:46
#32
EichelOverrated
Joined: Jul 2019
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Ceci is not a good player by any means but I don’t think he was as bad as everyone makes him either. xGA/60 & ca/60 ranked in the 85th percentile. For a guy playing way over his head, that’s decent.


All you need to know about Ceci right here :
https://youtu.be/vx5NIgAm5qY
Lyle_Bubas liked this.
Dec 15, 2020 at 7:49
#33
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Quoting: Hidalgo
Nah, regardless of what Brian Burke said, having guys like simmonds and bogo erases the need for Clifford. Cliffords reliable, but doesn’t really add anything. I’d rather have more high risk guys with some upside.

Bogos some much needed experience and grit on the blueline, on a manageable and buriable deal. I’d rather that then clifford and ceci


Yeah I will admit Bogosian was a pretty good offensive defenceman in his prime. I’m not sure if Simmonds has anything left in him to play on a regular basis, but he will see a smaller role.
Dec 15, 2020 at 7:50
#34
Joined: Aug 2020
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Poor Thornton has 1500+ career points and has to make his (last?) cup run alongside Martin and Clifford.

Gotta have Jumbo with some skill guys to get him producing - the Leafs could use some bottom 6 production and he’ll supply it with the right line mates.
Lyle_Bubas liked this.
Dec 15, 2020 at 8:23
#35
Joined: Jun 2015
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Quoting: aadoyle
ceci was a disaster lul. Ceci is one of the worst Dman I have seen since Marincin. The fact he went in the first round makes me go the hell did the Senators see in this kid cause i checked his old games and man he looked like a 3rd rounder.

Yes Bogo at times makes bad mistakes but he also can make some wicked hits and passes and is could be a perfect bodyguard for rielly should a pairing happen. By pairing him with rielly every know and again (mainly offensive starts) rielly can drive the net while bogo can stay back guarding the blueline and if necessary shot at the net (and get a goal rather than miss by a mile). Ceci never remembered to do that and would try to drive the net leaving rielly back going huh.


From what I’ve read, Ceci and Bogo are more alike than not. Both former high picks, both big bodied, both aren’t great at either offence or defence, both aren’t great at moving the puck, both have similar advanced stats, but both can be fine in a sheltered role. Ceci looked so bad because he was playing 20+ mins a night when he should be in a bottom pairing role. Bogo looked awful in Buffalo cause he was given too big of a role. Now that he played in a much more sheltered role in Tampa he looked better.
Barilko14 liked this.
Dec 15, 2020 at 8:25
#36
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Ceci is not a good player by any means but I don’t think he was as bad as everyone makes him either. xGA/60 & ca/60 ranked in the 85th percentile. For a guy playing way over his head, that’s decent.


Exactly. TML fans rip him so much because he was thrown into a top pairing role playing 20+ mins a night when that’s just way above his ability. In a bottom pairing role he can be fine
Dec 15, 2020 at 8:25
#37
best poster
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I don't think Bogosian is playing anything higher than third pairing minutes. They also signed Brodie for 5 million, him and Dermott are occupying the top two pairings.
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Dec 15, 2020 at 8:32
#38
Wayne Glensky
Joined: May 2019
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Quoting: aadoyle
ceci was a disaster lul. Ceci is one of the worst Dman I have seen since Marincin. The fact he went in the first round makes me go the hell did the Senators see in this kid cause i checked his old games and man he looked like a 3rd rounder.

Yes Bogo at times makes bad mistakes but he also can make some wicked hits and passes and is could be a perfect bodyguard for rielly should a pairing happen. By pairing him with rielly every know and again (mainly offensive starts) rielly can drive the net while bogo can stay back guarding the blueline and if necessary shot at the net (and get a goal rather than miss by a mile). Ceci never remembered to do that and would try to drive the net leaving rielly back going huh.


ya that was not a good drafting stretch for the sens lmao
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Dec 15, 2020 at 9:07
#39
In Pridham we trust
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
I think Bogosian is more mobile and offensive minded than Polak.


Probably. Still weird to describe him as "has outstanding skating ability and puck skills that allows him to generate a lot of offence".

Maybe in the OHL 15 years ago.
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Dec 15, 2020 at 9:09
#40
In Pridham we trust
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
I wouldn’t want Bogo & Rielly on the same pairing. Bogo is an offensive defenceman, he is not good away from the puck. I’d feel more comfortable if Rielly played with Dermott or Holl.


Bogo is not an offensive dman. Not sure where you are getting that from.
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Dec 15, 2020 at 9:19
#41
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Quoting: Barilko14
Bogo is not an offensive dman. Not sure where you are getting that from.


During his Winnipeg & Buffalo days, he ranked in like the 80th percentile in offensive impacts whereas defensive impacts was 5%. He used to quarter back the power play too. He was similar to Jack Johnson.
Dec 15, 2020 at 9:21
#42
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Quoting: mondo
I don't think Bogosian is playing anything higher than third pairing minutes. They also signed Brodie for 5 million, him and Dermott are occupying the top two pairings.


Dermott is a pretty talented player & his impacts in a bottom 6 role were pretty good. Hopefully he can make the next step.
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Dec 15, 2020 at 9:36
#43
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Quoting: mhockey91
Exactly. TML fans rip him so much because he was thrown into a top pairing role playing 20+ mins a night when that’s just way above his ability. In a bottom pairing role he can be fine


Yep I agree.
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Dec 15, 2020 at 9:43
#44
sbinalla
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he is not meant to be smart he is meant to bogo smash
Dec 15, 2020 at 9:44
#45
sbinalla
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he adds more depth and is a decent penalty killer
Dec 15, 2020 at 10:52
#46
In Pridham we trust
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
During his Winnipeg & Buffalo days, he ranked in like the 80th percentile in offensive impacts whereas defensive impacts was 5%. He used to quarter back the power play too. He was similar to Jack Johnson.


He never QB'd the PP. He was on the PP because he had a big shot, and until recently most teams ran 3 fwd 2 def on both PPs. 90% of the time he was on the PP2. Saying he QB'd the PP implies he played the Rielly, Barrie role at the top of the 1-3-1. That never happened.

I'll take your word for it about him having solid offensive impacts years ago, but again he's never been described as an off first finesse dman.
Dec 16, 2020 at 9:20
#47
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: faulkmydzingel
No mistake at all in signing Bogosion. He will be a solid 6th d man. He has a Stanley cup. In the games he played for Tampa he logged some solid minutes. He brings a physical presence. And we didn’t have to give up Connor brown to get him. He is not Cody Ceci one bit.


Well the Leafs had to give up Connor Brown in order to rid themselves of Zaitsev and his 4.5m X 5 contract. Still can't believe how so many though Ceci was so bad, when Barrie when horrid on the defensive side of centre ice. Ceci, Holl and Muzzin were given big PK minutes, and Barrie and Reilly weren't given any PK time if possible.
Dec 16, 2020 at 10:34
#48
Biased Opinion
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Any contract that you can bury with no penalty isn't worth regretting
Dec 16, 2020 at 11:27
#49
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Quoting: Barilko14
He never QB'd the PP. He was on the PP because he had a big shot, and until recently most teams ran 3 fwd 2 def on both PPs. 90% of the time he was on the PP2. Saying he QB'd the PP implies he played the Rielly, Barrie role at the top of the 1-3-1. That never happened.

I'll take your word for it about him having solid offensive impacts years ago, but again he's never been described as an off first finesse dman.


Fair enough. I’ve always viewed Bogo as one of those big body physical D with good puck skills and foot speed. The only thing he lacks is hockey sense and agility.
Dec 16, 2020 at 11:32
#50
In Pridham we trust
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Fair enough. I’ve always viewed Bogo as one of those big body physical D with good puck skills and foot speed. The only thing he lacks is hockey sense and agility.


He's way closer to Polak than he is Byfuglien.
 
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