thats bad for yotes

Agree. You make the Duclair suggestion.....then you put in Chychrun in the trade too. Yotes aren't trading Chychrun....young and cheap,

How so? Duclair is playing 3 line mins barley right now. They clearing don't see a fit with him. Lowry is a 3c in the nhl big guy kills penalties and is on the right side of shot stats. Myers is a solid top 4 dmen on the right side which yotes need plus he scores at 5vs5 like a top pair dmen. Him and OEL could be a very good top pair. Plue the jets take on dead money.

People are overvalueing Duclair and seriously under valuing myers. His own team only plays duclair like a 3rd liner. So you treat him like a 3rd liner with some upside. Yotes have made it clear he is on the block and why does no one view Myers as a good top 4 dmen? His shot stats are right in line and the man does something all teams want... he scores at a very high rate 5vs5. Lowry has also been better then Duclair this year at everything. Shot stats, points and special teams plus hes a center.

OMG I can't believe your so entrenched in advanced stats that you actually think Lowry is better than Duclair....... No i think you overvalue you're Jets players too much and pick and choose advanced stats to down play other teams players..... especially if they are having a bad year.

"why does no one view Myers as a good top 4 dmen?" I don't think anyone thinks he's not a good top 4 but rather not worth a potential top pairing dman in Chychrun and a young sniper who is deemed a "3rd liner" because he's playing on the teams 3rd line at the age of 21 on a terrible team BTW.

Trouba was playing on bottom pairing for quite a while, is he a bottom pairing dman?

A young sinper? His own team has him playing the 4th least time on the team. Trouba was alway top 3 in icetime on the jets even playing on the "bottom pair" Duclair hasn't been good at all. Lowry was good his rookie season and has been very good so far this season. Bigger sample size to compare. Like people get stats are just game results I don't make them up they are there because of what happened in the game. Chychrun fall in the draft because most teams felt he doesn't have top pair talent. That was the know on him his upside is limited. Do you people just come to these conclusions out of thin air? You never stat why you think this. Never show any proof nothing. Don't get me wrong Duclair's numbers last year were very good but his team (one based heavily on advance stats) have falling out of love with him. That should tell people something.

I will concede that the Trouba comparison wasn't the best but you're reasoning for damning him is counter intuitive for wanting him in your trade in the first place. Aw he sucks as player clearly, he's a 3rd-4th liner based on statistics and what the Coyotes think of him, he's a terrible player...........but I'll take him off your hands and play him on my top line......??????? You're so full of it, its annoying.

Duclair through 20 games on the worst team in the league has been deemed a bad player all of a sudden? Maybe he's just learning the ropes in his second full season in the NHL? You know, sophomore slump as they say? No that's impossible......terrible player for the rest of his career because 20 games into his second season he's not lighting it up and his coach isn't giving him top line minutes? Give it up man.


Chychrun fell because of exactly what you mentioned but you know what? He's been proving all those people wrong at the age of 18. He's sticking with a terrible Arizona team that has no need to play him this year. Therefore he's making Chayka look real smart for taking when they did. Maybe this is just the beginning and he could actually become that player people were thinking he could be when he was battling for 1st overall at the start of last year.

Don't dismiss me thinking Lowry is garbage. He is a good depth player but he's just that. A depth player. He'll never be top 6 material. Where as Duclair right now even in a slump that he's in, can be in a top 6 lineup on some teams.


This is part that really ruffles my feathers with you though - " Do you people just come to these conclusions out of thin air? You never stat why you think this. Never show any proof nothing."

That is so condescending because advanced stats apparently dictate the winner every time right? If that was the case the team with the best possession will always win which isn't the case.

I've watched Duclair, Lowry, Chychrun and Myers and have been able to formulate my opinion on these players based off what I've seen. I've now augmented my evaluation by using advanced stats to strengthen/change my original analysis but I don't blindly construe my opinion based on statistics on a spreadsheet. Why don't you give it a try?

If your looking for statistics to back up what my eyes see then I'm sorry I CAN'T TAKE MY FRACKING EYEBALLS OUT OF MY SOCKETS AND GIVE THEM TO YOU, to prove it.

As for proof i can give you, the below link shows that "Duclair could be had for the right price" and "Despite Duclair's current slump, Kypreos said the Coyotes could still be asking for a big return." So expecting a 3rd liner type return for him is silly on your part. He's having a bad season and hasn't played well so far this season at all but given his talent and ability, the Yotes aren't going to throw him away for less than value because he hasn't played well for 20 games as a 21 year old in his second full season.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/coyotes-anthony-duclair-trade-market/

So most scouts will tell you they need to see a player 30-40 times to get a good feel for what that player brings to the table (eye test). So one must conclude if a pro needs that much time use guys that are not pros must need much more than that. So you must have seen these players what 60 times each? The eye test needs massive sample viewing to be accurate on it. Result based stats allow you to see what that player is doing without the necessary viewing time that deep scouting needs. I have scouted on the junior level. It takes a massive amount of viewing to get an accurate picture of a player. So don't think I don't watch hockey and don't know what the eye test is. I got into stats to help with the scouting I was going 5 yrs ago. More information is better than less. Now do you ask yourself questions like why is duclair slumping? 2 reasons players slump. 1 he is snake bitten? He is getting no bounces his shooting % is below his average etc. All things that will bounce back over time. Al long as his shot rates are the same the puck will start going into the net. Reason 2- the player wasn't as good as his numbers showed. Could be he has lots of shooting luck and bounces go his way. So what do I see from duclair. Well this team is no better or worse than last year as a young player his shot and scoring chances should get better as he gets older. He had a high shooting % so one would expect that to drop and a little but both things should even out given him similar production as last year. Those were my thoughts going into this year. His shooting % hasn't dropped like I would it would but it has a little but his shooting rate has stayed the same but we see a drop in his scoring chances and its a good size one. Worse his defensive side has taken a huge drop off. So I'm not suggesting that the Yotes give him away for nothing. They are getting a 3rd line center that kills penalties and is really good at limiting shot and very very good at limiting scoring chances (yotes worse in the NHL). Plus a top 4 dmen that scores 5vs5 (doesn't need PP time) that is very likely Chychurn's upside. Plus myers is on a contract the Yotes will love. High cap hit low dollars.

Bottom line I have seen Chychurn play 4 NHL games and Duclair maybe 15. Not enough to test an eye test so yes I will put more faith in stats in this case.

Saying that I, an avid hockey fan for all of my life isn't qualified to judge a player correctly is the same as saying you are not qualified to look at the statistics laid in front of you and make a valid opinion. Biggest effing moot point ever. Most scouts are regular people who have no prior educational training who are just fans of hockey also. Just because you look at statistics doesn't make you truly understand them either if that's the case.

Regarding Duclair, all valid points except you're extrapolating over a full season for which you have only 20 games of data. Not too mention that many factors can contribute to a players production dipping so naming two blatant ones is pointless. Anyhow you continue to point out faults in a player that would explain that he is not as good as everyone thinks, then turn around and acquire said player to play him in your top line. Thus clearly the lack of production and defensive ineptitude is not as bad YOU clearly think. Your pumping the Jets players tires and kicking the Coyotes players while their down...... Which is why basing your opinion of a player by the numbers your reading is wrong.

"Bottom line I have seen Chychurn play 4 NHL games and Duclair maybe 15. Not enough to test an eye test so yes I will put more faith in stats in this case." - So why are you trading Myers and Lowry for them? Clearly the better option on defense that scores 5vs5 (doesn't need PP time) that is very likely Chychurn's upside and solid 6'6 center that kills penalties and is really good at limiting shot and very very good at limiting scoring chances?

Once again, your scouting on the junior level status that you bring up from time to time clearly was either short lived or not all that good in the first place for you to take some of the stances you do. I question your credibility if that isn't the case.

Do I believe Duclair is a better offensive player than Lowry? That a big yes. Do I think he is more suited to a scoring role. Again yes. Do I think he will have more value to a team factoring in scoring, defensive game, matchup, durability and future contract? I don't honestly know. Do I think Chychurn will be as good as myers? I think that's his ceiling and not convinced he gets to it. So I do think the deal is fair because I am giving them the better Dman for a Dman would could be that good some day and giving them a player that is better defensively but not as good offensively. Who plays a more valuable position and will likely always get paid less because teams over paid for offense not defense. Disagree all you like but I'm not saying Duclair is a bad player I'm saying he is over valued by most people because goals are sexy.

Also your take on scouting is wrong it takes tons of live viewing and game film to get a true measure of a player at this level. Ask any scout the work they have to do on an individual player.

And I'm trading them because the fill holes and Jets have depth at RDH and at center. So build depth where you are weak...LHD and size on the wing.

Less typing, more thinking. NOT WORTH CHYCHRUN!!!