Sabres should decline that.

If you think about it in terms of first round picks, Reinhart and Risto probably get 2 firsts in terms of combined value, Quinn is an 8th overall pick, plus 2 firsts, all for three seasons of a 32 year old Kane.

I think Ristolainen should be viewed as a cap dump not an asset, and even still this is extremely bad value for Buffalo.

Buffalo betting the farm on a wrong side of 30 scoring winger who cant play in his own end while pulling down 10.5 aav for 3 more years as he declines?
love it

Not interested if thats anything near the actual cost

Risto would be their top RHD immediately and arguable top D all together

that's more an insult to chicago than it is a compliment to Risto

That means nothing. Erik Gudbranson is Ottawa's top RHD, that doesn't make him good.

Also it's not even true lmao. He's not better than Boqvist, and he's definitely not better than Murphy.

There is no sense in discussing Ristolainen.
Too many people look at his horrible +/- from 2018-2019.
He has vastly improved.
Just ignore ignorant comments.

Keith and Murphy are both significantly better, and I'm taking Boqvist over him as well.

Yeah, we aren't looking at +/- I'll tell you that for free.
Just in case you're unfamiliar with these - These are horrendously bad results for Risto.
So not only are we not basing this on outdated and bad info, Risto has actually gotten worse since the "lowpoint" you've identified. Great eye test there bud.

LOL, no he wouldn't. Murphy is better then Risto all day long and the Hawks aren't sitting two of their highly valued prospects (Mitchell and Boqvist) for Risto. Murphy, Boqvist, Mitchell, then Risto would be the pecking order on the right side.

Put Boqvist/Murphy in RR's position last season/few seasons and I'm sure his possession numbers would be as bad or worse

Those are based off the competition he faces and team he plays with. Risto has some of the toughest minutes in the NHL. He's not replacement level as the numbers would indicate. You need to take analytics with a grain of salt. Relying on them completely is lazy

It always amazes me that the first response is always something that is accounted for and even says it is accounted for in big bold letters. Its like you didn't even bother looking.
There are legitimate criticisms of analytics, these are not some of them. please dont parrot these uniformed takes like they prove anything.

I understand that they're taken into account but its not a 100% science, probably never will be. Just as ignoring analytics completely isn't smart, following analytics and treating them as the complete accurate value of a player is also lazy

This implies that an eye test is somehow 100% accurate, or even better than the analytics at doing this when all research points in exactly the opposite direction. Don't let the good be the enemy of the perfect. It isn't perfect, but it is one of the best tools we have and it is damn good. That is no reason to discount it.

Plus, any good eye test will tell you Risto ****ing sucks lol. Remember that analytics are just what happens on the ice written down and presented in an "easy" to digest way. No one ever argued you should only use analytics, only you brought that up. You're moving the goalposts in this conversation and bringing up irrelevant points to distract from the argument whether it is intentional or not.

I think what I am trying to say, to put it more succinctly is that nothing you have said here discredits or invalidates anything these models say. Risto is bad. One of the worst Dmen in the league and there isn't a good argument otherwise, just like there isn't a good argument against analytics.

what are you talking about. Analytics are a thing. no one said they weren't a thing and you haven't said anything remotely relevant to Risto's play on the ice besides a chart that doesn't actually prove anything

what you're trying to say is that you're smarter than an NHL coach. If you average 22 minutes a night, I can guarantee you that player isn't the worst in the league.

I am always one year ahead of the general public - so I get a lot of hate and no credit.

Thats his bio. Enough said. Another one that can copy/paste charts and thinks he knows more than others like a teenager running an anime podcast... is how I envision these people

^this

STOP these Kane to Buffalo trades, he’s a bad fit

A blind appeal to authority and the toi fallacy that has been disproven time after time again.
Wow.

If you ever decide to actually learn a thing or two about why many of the preconceived notions in hockey are wrong (and how analytics helps to cut through them) i am more than happy to help you understand them. But you will actually need a willingness to learn and to understand that you are not infallible.
Good day.

You know, if you were actually able to make a cognizant point or criticism on analytics there'd be a conversation here, but everything you've said in this thread is akin to "nuh uhh". So I will ask you very simply.

Why doesn't this chart prove anything.

Be (and I cannot stress this enough) specific and be concise.

If all you need is help understanding exactly what it says or means, just say so as I am more than happy to help.

nobody's out to get you dude, just take it easy.

NHL teams use analytics. my point is, if you're head coach of any team, you play the players who give you the best chance to win. to think that the coaches at the highest level have no idea what they are doing is wacky.

And yet they continue to play Risto 22 mins a night despite all the evidence in the world saying its a bad idea.
Coaches - like you and me - are not infallable.
Case in point: Babcock playing Marleau over Matthews in the dying minutes of game 7 when we needed a goal.

i respect where you're coming from and I understand what you are saying. i just think its unfair to try to simplify the game to "this player is better than another" it completely misses so many nuances/skills/uses/aspects of players, let alone player development.

i agree that coaches should experiment more when they see trends like risto's. call it a "blind appeal" all you want, but i think someone who spends every day with these players would know a bit more than us. not saying they don't make mistakes, but how would you handle it?