Forums/Armchair-GM

Dubois next year

Created by: Jambo
Initial Creation Date: Jan 4, 2021
Published: Jan 4 at 4:14
Team: 2021-22 New York Rangers
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
Lundkvist, Nils3$925,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Chytil, Filip3$2,500,000
Lindgren, Ryan3$2,750,000
Buchnevich, Pavel5$4,800,000
Shesterkin, Igor7$7,000,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Hjalmarsson, Niklas1$4,500,000
Trades
NYR
  1. Dubois, Pierre-Luc
  2. 2021 5th round pick (CBJ)
CBJ
  1. Gauthier, Julien [RFA Rights]
  2. Robertson, Matthew
  3. Strome, Ryan ($1,500,000 retained)
  4. Deangelo, Anthony ($1,800,000 retained)
  5. 2022 2nd round pick (NYR)
  6. 2021 1st round pick (NYR)
NYR
    ANA
    1. Howden, Brett [RFA Rights]
    2. Hájek, Libor [RFA Rights]
    Additional Details:
    Seattle
    Buyouts
    • Henrik Lundqvist: $1,500,000
    • Kevin Shattenkirk: $1,433,333
    • Dan Girardi: $1,111,111
    • Brad Richards: $0
    Retained Salary Transactions
    • Ryan Strome: $1,500,000 (33.33%)
    • Anthony Deangelo: $1,800,000 (37.5%)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2021
    NYR
    BUF
    NYR
    OTT
    NYR
    CBJ
    NYR
    NYR
    2022
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    2023
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$81,500,000$78,858,968$0$8,482,500$2,641,032
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    NYR
    Lafrenière, Alexis
    $925,000
    LW
    RFA - 2
    NYR
    Zibanejad, Mika
    $5,350,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 1
    NYR
    Buchnevich, Pavel
    $4,800,000
    RW, LW
    RFA
    NYR
    Panarin, Artemi
    $11,642,857
    LW
    NMC
    UFA - 5
    CBJ
    Dubois, Pierre-Luc
    $5,000,000
    C
    RFA - 1
    NYR
    Kakko, Kaapo
    $925,000
    RW
    RFA - 1
    NYR
    Kreider, Chris
    $6,500,000
    LW
    NMC
    UFA - 6
    NYR
    Chytil, Filip
    $2,500,000
    C, LW
    RFA
    NYR
    Kravtsov, Vitali
    $925,000
    RW
    RFA - 1
    NYR
    Lemieux, Brendan
    $1,550,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    NYR
    Barron, Morgan
    $925,000
    C
    RFA - 2
    NYR
    Blackwell, Colin
    $725,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    NYR
    Lindgren, Ryan
    $2,750,000
    LD
    RFA
    NYR
    Fox, Adam
    $925,000
    RD
    RFA - 1
    NYR
    Shesterkin, Igor
    $7,000,000
    G
    RFA
    NYR
    Miller, K'Andre
    $925,000
    LD
    RFA - 2
    NYR
    Trouba, Jacob
    $8,000,000
    RD
    NMC
    UFA - 5
    NYR
    Georgiev, Alexandar
    $2,425,000
    G
    RFA - 1
    NYR
    Reunanen, Tarmo
    $809,167
    LD
    RFA - 1
    NYR
    Lundkvist, Nils
    $925,000
    RD
    RFA
    Hjalmarsson, Niklas
    $4,500,000
    LD/RD
    UFA
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    NYR
    Rooney, Kevin
    $750,000
    RW, C
    UFA - 1
    NYR
    Bitetto, Anthony
    $737,500
    LD
    UFA - 1

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    Jan 4 at 4:17
    #1
    Bcarlo25
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 19,298
    Likes: 6,450
    PLD is a big time asset. To acquire him, you need to send quality, not just quantity. You just compiled a whole bunch of things that don’t really hurt to give up. That isn’t going to get it done.
    villenash and mhroblak liked this.
    Jan 4 at 4:28
    #2
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 12,790
    Likes: 5,436
    Thats a pretty embarrassing offer for PLD
    Jan 4 at 4:40
    #3
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 1,081
    Likes: 490
    Starts with Kakko
    saysthemachine liked this.
    Jan 4 at 4:43
    #4
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 339
    Likes: 99
    If Igor makes north of 4 Gordon should be fired into the sun.
    Jan 4 at 4:59
    #5
    Hates Eichel Trades
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 847
    Likes: 369
    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    PLD is a big time asset. To acquire him, you need to send quality, not just quantity. You just compiled a whole bunch of things that don’t really hurt to give up. That isn’t going to get it done.


    Completely agree
    Jan 4 at 5:00
    #6
    Hates Eichel Trades
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 847
    Likes: 369
    Quoting: Book_Hockey
    Starts with Kakko


    A franchise prospect? Good luck with that.
    Jan 4 at 5:06
    #7
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 1,081
    Likes: 490
    Quoting: mhroblak
    A franchise prospect? Good luck with that.


    Kakko was, literally, one of the five worst players in the NHL last year. That is not hyperbole- he was that bad. Calling him a "franchise prospect" is a bit of a stretch.

    Besides, the 2C position for the way this roster is shaped is far more valuable than a winger.
    Jan 4 at 5:13
    #8
    Hates Eichel Trades
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 847
    Likes: 369
    Quoting: Book_Hockey
    Kakko was, literally, one of the five worst players in the NHL last year. That is not hyperbole- he was that bad. Calling him a "franchise prospect" is a bit of a stretch.

    Besides, the 2C position for the way this roster is shaped is far more valuable than a winger.



    You're right that that's not hyperbole, you're wrong that the franchise player is a stretch. It's still his market value. The potential everyone saw entering the 2019-20 season doesn't dwindle during the rough regular season.

    In addition, Kakko is 4 years younger, has an indubitably higher ceiling, and is replacing someone who "wants out" in Columbus. (Now I'm not going to jump the gun saying he explicitly wants out, but if Columbus trades him in 2022, he will have requested a trade by then.)
    Jan 4 at 5:15
    #9
    Bcarlo25
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 19,298
    Likes: 6,450
    Quoting: mhroblak
    A franchise prospect? Good luck with that.


    He looked horrible.
    Jan 4 at 5:20
    #10
    Hates Eichel Trades
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 847
    Likes: 369
    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    He looked horrible.


    Correct. Now read my previous reply to Book Hockey.
    Jan 4 at 5:28
    #11
    Bcarlo25
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 19,298
    Likes: 6,450
    Quoting: mhroblak
    Correct. Now read my previous reply to Book Hockey.


    I think you’re half right. He could absolutely change course and get back on the path that made him the 2nd overall. His performance absolutely crushed his trade value though.
    Jan 4 at 6:41
    #12
    Thread Starter
    Jefe
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 1,621
    Likes: 356
    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    PLD is a big time asset. To acquire him, you need to send quality, not just quantity. You just compiled a whole bunch of things that don’t really hurt to give up. That isn’t going to get it done.


    Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
    Thats a pretty embarrassing offer for PLD


    Quoting: Book_Hockey
    Starts with Kakko



    Oh please. Look at the other players of that status who have been traded. You aren't getting the whole farm system in return and nobody is trading Kakko lol. If he wants out, this will be close to what he goes for
    Jan 4 at 6:45
    #13
    Bcarlo25
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 19,298
    Likes: 6,450
    Quoting: Jambo
    Oh please. Look at the other players of that status who have been traded. You aren't getting the whole farm system in return and nobody is trading Kakko lol. If he wants out, this will be close to what he goes for


    Alright few things here. The whole point of this is that no, it won’t take the whole farm system. Quality over quantity bud.

    Who cares if he wants out? That doesn’t effect columbus at all. Not for a few years anyway.

    Players of that status who have been traded? There aren’t going to be many. Seguin? The centerpiece of that trade was a 30 goal, 70 point winger who was elite defensively on an awesome contract. Columbus isn’t going to care about strome or tony D at all.
    Book_Hockey liked this.
    Jan 4 at 10:47
    #14
    Denzel Moshington
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 18
    Likes: 10
    Ugh don't put DeAngelo in the same room as Domi.
    One MAGA chud per team, please.
    Jan 5 at 2:00
    #15
    Thread Starter
    Jefe
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 1,621
    Likes: 356
    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    Alright few things here. The whole point of this is that no, it won’t take the whole farm system. Quality over quantity bud.

    Who cares if he wants out? That doesn’t effect columbus at all. Not for a few years anyway.

    Players of that status who have been traded? There aren’t going to be many. Seguin? The centerpiece of that trade was a 30 goal, 70 point winger who was elite defensively on an awesome contract. Columbus isn’t going to care about strome or tony D at all.



    Perhaps you don't know enough about the prospects involved? Gauthier projects to be a strong middle 6 winger and Robertson a top 4 D. Plus a first rounder likely in the 10-20 range and a second. Then you add in one of the best offensive Dmen in the league and a second line center who can play behind Domi for the year. Strome obviously is not close to Dubois but at least a decent replacement for 1 year until a better situation can be figured out.

    I look at JT miller. Similar point totals, although JT never hit 61. First rounder, a 7th, and a minor league goalie for a great two way winger on a good contract (who went on to put up 72 points). Obviously different players, and Tampa had their reasons for that trade, but my point is the deal Im suggesting is not as insulting as you seem to think it is. You think it is insulting, but in real life NHL, this is a deal they'd have to consider with PLD wanting a move to a bigger stage.

    Additionally, in the NHL prospect world, when the quantity IS quality, Quantity is important. More prospects you have likely to turn NHL, the better.
    Jan 5 at 2:53
    #16
    Bcarlo25
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 19,298
    Likes: 6,450
    Quoting: Jambo
    Perhaps you don't know enough about the prospects involved? Gauthier projects to be a strong middle 6 winger and Robertson a top 4 D. Plus a first rounder likely in the 10-20 range and a second. Then you add in one of the best offensive Dmen in the league and a second line center who can play behind Domi for the year. Strome obviously is not close to Dubois but at least a decent replacement for 1 year until a better situation can be figured out.

    I look at JT miller. Similar point totals, although JT never hit 61. First rounder, a 7th, and a minor league goalie for a great two way winger on a good contract (who went on to put up 72 points). Obviously different players, and Tampa had their reasons for that trade, but my point is the deal Im suggesting is not as insulting as you seem to think it is. You think it is insulting, but in real life NHL, this is a deal they'd have to consider with PLD wanting a move to a bigger stage.

    Additionally, in the NHL prospect world, when the quantity IS quality, Quantity is important. More prospects you have likely to turn NHL, the better.


    If JT Miller is your comparable, you’re just going about this the wrong way. You’re also not looking at what columbus needs. You’re also not taking into account that the lightning really needed to shed salary. They had a desire to trade miller. Columbus doesn’t want to trade PLD. Blow them out of the water or they aren’t going to have any interest.

    Then theres the last bit. Strome and Deangelo. Theres a reason they’re in here. There’s a reason why they’re in all the New York trades. They aren’t that good. No one really wants them, although Deangelo is probably a pretty good pick for daily fantasy.
    Jan 5 at 4:47
    #17
    Thread Starter
    Jefe
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 1,621
    Likes: 356
    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    If JT Miller is your comparable, you’re just going about this the wrong way. You’re also not looking at what columbus needs. You’re also not taking into account that the lightning really needed to shed salary. They had a desire to trade miller. Columbus doesn’t want to trade PLD. Blow them out of the water or they aren’t going to have any interest.

    Then theres the last bit. Strome and Deangelo. Theres a reason they’re in here. There’s a reason why they’re in all the New York trades. They aren’t that good. No one really wants them, although Deangelo is probably a pretty good pick for daily fantasy.



    Few things here:

    -Columbus wants to trade PLD the same amount Tampa probably "wanted" to traded JT. Nobody wants to trade a young, dynamic 2 way 50 point forward making 5 mill per year for a few years to go. Nor does a team want to trade a young, number 1 center. It was solely cap. Needing to shed cap is the same amount of reason to move someone as a player requesting a trade.

    -I admit JT isn't the best comparable player wise, but I mean in terms of return value ratio in a recent trade. Mark Stone (contingent on extension)? Elite prospect and a 2nd. The Hall trade was for less than what NYR would be giving here. If Columbus wants Kravtsov and a second instead of this offer, be my guest. Im sure you'd scoff at that too, but these are just the way these deals usually unfold. The armchair GM's typically expect a lot more than what actually happens. If PLD really wants out, these are things to consider.

    - Aren't a lot of players getting traded by fans on this website recurring? Is your logic that good players don't get traded? I admitted Strome isn't half of what PLD is, but Tony brings offense and CBJ needs that, especially if PLD is leaving. 4th in points by d-Men is bad now I guess? Come on man, they get traded because they aren't essential to our core and still carry value across the league. Thats how damn near every NHL trade happens: non-core players with value get moved in an attempt for both teams to improve roster strength and depth. I know you know that. Are you being ignorant or just trying to get under a Rags fan's skin?

    -Is the only way CBJ can win a Dubois trade if they get Laine for him, one for one? Helps both teams' needs if they both play to their maximum potential (and if WPG is big enough a stage for PLD)
    Jan 5 at 5:22
    #18
    Bcarlo25
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 19,298
    Likes: 6,450
    Quoting: Jambo
    Few things here:

    -Columbus wants to trade PLD the same amount Tampa probably "wanted" to traded JT. Nobody wants to trade a young, dynamic 2 way 50 point forward making 5 mill per year for a few years to go. Nor does a team want to trade a young, number 1 center. It was solely cap. Needing to shed cap is the same amount of reason to move someone as a player requesting a trade.

    -I admit JT isn't the best comparable player wise, but I mean in terms of return value ratio in a recent trade. Mark Stone (contingent on extension)? Elite prospect and a 2nd. The Hall trade was for less than what NYR would be giving here. If Columbus wants Kravtsov and a second instead of this offer, be my guest. Im sure you'd scoff at that too, but these are just the way these deals usually unfold. The armchair GM's typically expect a lot more than what actually happens. If PLD really wants out, these are things to consider.

    - Aren't a lot of players getting traded by fans on this website recurring? Is your logic that good players don't get traded? I admitted Strome isn't half of what PLD is, but Tony brings offense and CBJ needs that, especially if PLD is leaving. 4th in points by d-Men is bad now I guess? Come on man, they get traded because they aren't essential to our core and still carry value across the league. Thats how damn near every NHL trade happens: non-core players with value get moved in an attempt for both teams to improve roster strength and depth. I know you know that. Are you being ignorant or just trying to get under a Rags fan's skin?

    -Is the only way CBJ can win a Dubois trade if they get Laine for him, one for one? Helps both teams' needs if they both play to their maximum potential (and if WPG is big enough a stage for PLD)


    Okay, well i think there’s some disconnect here, and i guess it could be language based. The difference between this scenario and the others are pretty big. The biggest one is reason. The second is age.
    The devils had a reason to trade Hall. They were bad, his deal was expiring, and he was unlikely to re-sign. Tampa had a reason to trade miller. They had a lot of forward depth, and a desperate need for cap space. He was a player they could get an asset for, while shedding cap. Stone was leaving after a few more meaningless games in UFA. All these teams had legitimate reasons to be willing to move the player. Also the players were all either on the verge of going UFA, or on the verge of being UFA age.

    What possible reason could columbus have to move PLD? The rumors that he wants out? So what? Shea Weber wanted out of Nashville forever, he still played great. Let’s say he does want out. Cool, that’s a reason to move him two years from now where he’s an arb eligible RFA. Until then, they’re a competitive team, and he’s a number one center on a good contract. The standard, “well, here’s a bunch of futures,” won’t work like with the trades you mentioned, because all of those teams had a reason to trade that player, and specific need for futures.

    Think of it this way. Let’s pretend the US and Canadian dollars were worth the exact same. They’re not, but let’s pretend. You’re in the states, with no plans to go to canada, and i offer you a canadian dollar for a US dollar. You say no obviously. I offer $1.25. You still probably say no. What are you going to do with that? It’s more of a bother than it’s worth. But then your boss says, “hey Jambo, you’re going on a trip to canada for a month.” Now all of a sudden you need CAD. That dollar for dollar trade is looking great. Hell, if you had to you would probably take 80 cents. You have a reason to want that CAD.

    Columbus ain’t going to canada.
    Jambo liked this.
    Jan 7 at 4:21
    #19
    Thread Starter
    Jefe
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 1,621
    Likes: 356
    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    Okay, well i think there’s some disconnect here, and i guess it could be language based. The difference between this scenario and the others are pretty big. The biggest one is reason. The second is age.
    The devils had a reason to trade Hall. They were bad, his deal was expiring, and he was unlikely to re-sign. Tampa had a reason to trade miller. They had a lot of forward depth, and a desperate need for cap space. He was a player they could get an asset for, while shedding cap. Stone was leaving after a few more meaningless games in UFA. All these teams had legitimate reasons to be willing to move the player. Also the players were all either on the verge of going UFA, or on the verge of being UFA age.

    What possible reason could columbus have to move PLD? The rumors that he wants out? So what? Shea Weber wanted out of Nashville forever, he still played great. Let’s say he does want out. Cool, that’s a reason to move him two years from now where he’s an arb eligible RFA. Until then, they’re a competitive team, and he’s a number one center on a good contract. The standard, “well, here’s a bunch of futures,” won’t work like with the trades you mentioned, because all of those teams had a reason to trade that player, and specific need for futures.

    Think of it this way. Let’s pretend the US and Canadian dollars were worth the exact same. They’re not, but let’s pretend. You’re in the states, with no plans to go to canada, and i offer you a canadian dollar for a US dollar. You say no obviously. I offer $1.25. You still probably say no. What are you going to do with that? It’s more of a bother than it’s worth. But then your boss says, “hey Jambo, you’re going on a trip to canada for a month.” Now all of a sudden you need CAD. That dollar for dollar trade is looking great. Hell, if you had to you would probably take 80 cents. You have a reason to want that CAD.

    Columbus ain’t going to canada.


    I do understand your point and what you're saying. I think we also both agree that it would be supremely hard for them to win a trade if they are sending away PLD. He's kind of exactly what they need, and they're damn near toast without him.

    My line of thought is under the assumption that they would be looking to move him if he wants out, next season perhaps. This is just an idea for one way a trade for him might look. We clearly disagree on DeAngelo's value, he is a polarizing player because he has questions around his play, but also clear offensive upside. Improving defensively is a must. Typically guys who want out, eventually get out.

    Say Columbus experiences a dip in the standings, I think they make the top 4 in their division this year, but lets say for whatever reason they feel more inclined to get some futures out of a deal, this would be a pretty good deal. I think the Rangers could add pieces too.

    I guess my point is that a player vocally wanting out, is a reason for a trade, considering players who request one typically get moved at some point in the following years. You can only roll with a guy who wants out for so long, even if they are extremely competitive like Dubois. Columbus has the right to wait on a return they like, but it will be hard to find one that makes them better. The Rangers will be in on at, and maybe its hard to see now, but I would like to revisit this when Dubois does get moved, whenever that is. I think the return may very well end up being slightly overwhelming. At least the deal I suggested offers help now and lots of help in the future
    Jan 7 at 5:03
    #20
    Bcarlo25
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 19,298
    Likes: 6,450
    Quoting: Jambo
    I do understand your point and what you're saying. I think we also both agree that it would be supremely hard for them to win a trade if they are sending away PLD. He's kind of exactly what they need, and they're damn near toast without him.

    My line of thought is under the assumption that they would be looking to move him if he wants out, next season perhaps. This is just an idea for one way a trade for him might look. We clearly disagree on DeAngelo's value, he is a polarizing player because he has questions around his play, but also clear offensive upside. Improving defensively is a must. Typically guys who want out, eventually get out.

    Say Columbus experiences a dip in the standings, I think they make the top 4 in their division this year, but lets say for whatever reason they feel more inclined to get some futures out of a deal, this would be a pretty good deal. I think the Rangers could add pieces too.

    I guess my point is that a player vocally wanting out, is a reason for a trade, considering players who request one typically get moved at some point in the following years. You can only roll with a guy who wants out for so long, even if they are extremely competitive like Dubois. Columbus has the right to wait on a return they like, but it will be hard to find one that makes them better. The Rangers will be in on at, and maybe its hard to see now, but I would like to revisit this when Dubois does get moved, whenever that is. I think the return may very well end up being slightly overwhelming. At least the deal I suggested offers help now and lots of help in the future


    Well, first off, i think we’re probably all overstating the situation regarding him wanting out. Has he openly come out to the media and said, “i want to play for a different team?”

    Even if that’s the case, why should columbus care? They have nothing but time. Three years before they really have to moved him, regardless of what he wants.

    Let’s say they’re listening to offers though. You don’t think there are at least a dozen teams that beat that offer? There’s nothing there that’s exciting. One team comes in with a very good prospect + first, and they beat that offer.

    This looks like a trade that could work if PLD were 25, one year away from UFA, and he’s married to some rocket model who lives in New York (think fisher). Not a 22 year old with a two year contract, and four years of team control.
    Jan 31 at 10:32
    #21
    Thread Starter
    Jefe
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 1,621
    Likes: 356
    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    Well, first off, i think we’re probably all overstating the situation regarding him wanting out. Has he openly come out to the media and said, “i want to play for a different team?”

    Even if that’s the case, why should columbus care? They have nothing but time. Three years before they really have to moved him, regardless of what he wants.

    Let’s say they’re listening to offers though. You don’t think there are at least a dozen teams that beat that offer? There’s nothing there that’s exciting. One team comes in with a very good prospect + first, and they beat that offer.

    This looks like a trade that could work if PLD were 25, one year away from UFA, and he’s married to some rocket model who lives in New York (think fisher). Not a 22 year old with a two year contract, and four years of team control.


    Well...my take aged poorly! Lol
     
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