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One trade

Created by: Hammerwise
Team: 2020-21 Philadelphia Flyers
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 7, 2021
Published: Jan. 7, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
BUF
  1. Gostisbehere, Shayne
  2. 2021 2nd round pick (PHI)
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
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Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
2022
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
2023
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$69,368,257$66,037$582,500$12,131,743
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$4,137,500$4,137,500
RW, C
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$4,333,333$4,333,333
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$8,250,000$8,250,000
RW, LW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$3,000,000$3,000,000
LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$3,571,429$3,571,429
C
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$7,000,000$7,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$874,125$874,125
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$2,300,000$2,300,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$863,333$863,333
C
RFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,075,000$1,075,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,200,000$1,200,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$4,725,000$4,725,000
LD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$5,400,000$5,400,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$730,833$730,833 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
G
RFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$2,550,000$2,550,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,500,000$1,500,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$3,250,000$3,250,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,800,000$1,800,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,600,000$1,600,000
LD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$700,000$700,000
LD, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$5,750,000$5,750,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$736,666$736,666 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$20,000$20K)
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$792,500$792,500 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$780,833$780,833 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$725,000$725,000 ($0$0$0$0)
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$756,667$756,667 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
LD/RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$700,000$700,000 ($0$0$0$0)
G
UFA - 1

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Jan. 7, 2021 at 11:31 a.m.
#1
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Flyers could do better for that package IMO.

Ristolainen sucks!
Hammerwise liked this.
Jan. 7, 2021 at 11:34 a.m.
#2
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Quoting: Trevorchef
Flyers could do better for that package IMO.

Ristolainen sucks!


Both risto and Ghost need a change of scenery. The key is that Risto is a better bet to eat minutes at the least. Risto is a RD and Ghost is a LD and both teams have depth at those positions but have a need at the other. Salary, contract length and age isn't dissimilar, but both players are, respectively, regressing or not getting ample minutes.

Both would probably be exposed in expansion next year.
Jan. 7, 2021 at 11:51 a.m.
#3
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Quoting: Hammerwise
Both risto and Ghost need a change of scenery. The key is that Risto is a better bet to eat minutes at the least. Risto is a RD and Ghost is a LD and both teams have depth at those positions but have a need at the other. Salary, contract length and age isn't dissimilar, but both players are, respectively, regressing or not getting ample minutes.

Both would probably be exposed in expansion next year.


Oh I understand the line of thinking. I just think the Flyers could do better if they are attaching a 2nd.

If they just need a minute muncher they could find one of those for at least half of the price of Ristolainen and still move SG in a separate deal.
Hammerwise liked this.
Jan. 7, 2021 at 3:14 p.m.
#4
Sabres are elite
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Quoting: Trevorchef
Flyers could do better for that package IMO.

Ristolainen sucks!


Guys who play 24+ mins a night for a bad team don't suck.

Quoting: Hammerwise
Both risto and Ghost need a change of scenery. The key is that Risto is a better bet to eat minutes at the least. Risto is a RD and Ghost is a LD and both teams have depth at those positions but have a need at the other. Salary, contract length and age isn't dissimilar, but both players are, respectively, regressing or not getting ample minutes.

Both would probably be exposed in expansion next year.


Why exactly does Risto need a change of scenery? He is putting up 40 point seasons while playing 24+ mins a night on a bad team. Risto is a much more consistent and better overall player than Ghost. Risto also isn't being exposed in the expansion LOL. We protect him, Dahlin, and Joki. Miller is exposed
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Jan. 7, 2021 at 4:37 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Skyraider112
Guys who play 24+ mins a night for a bad team don't suck.



Why exactly does Risto need a change of scenery? He is putting up 40 point seasons while playing 24+ mins a night on a bad team. Risto is a much more consistent and better overall player than Ghost. Risto also isn't being exposed in the expansion LOL. We protect him, Dahlin, and Joki. Miller is exposed


Said the Sabres fan. No shocker there.

So horribly overpaid for what he provides.

The juice ain't worth the squeeze.
Jan. 7, 2021 at 10:25 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: Trevorchef
Said the Sabres fan. No shocker there.

So horribly overpaid for what he provides.

The juice ain't worth the squeeze.


Well I seem to be the only one around these parts saying he is a valuable hockey player. Not a perfect player and he certainly has holes in his game (what player doesn't?). If you think he's overpaid and valueless then that's your opinion. I'll respectively disagree. I don't see any other defenseman in the league doing all the things Risto does and still putting up points and all this on my crappy Sabres team.
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Jan. 7, 2021 at 10:49 p.m.
#7
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I've thought about this idea before and I wouldn't swap Risto for Ghost, even with the pick added in.

Risto has looked in over his head on the top pairing while playing some of the heaviest minutes in the league. Ghost has looked in over his head while playing very sheltered offensive third pairing minutes.

With Risto, I think dropping him down to the second pairing and easing up his level of competition will work wonders for his game. And we should be able to do that when Dahlin solidifies himself as our #1 defender.

With Ghost, you can't give him easier minutes than he was already playing last year, and he was playing poorly enough in that role to get benched. You're really just hoping that he's able to fix whatever is broken and turn his career around.

With both of them having similar contracts, I'll put my money on Risto.
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Jan. 8, 2021 at 4:45 a.m.
#8
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Edited Jan. 8, 2021 at 5:05 a.m.
Quoting: Shootica
I've thought about this idea before and I wouldn't swap Risto for Ghost, even with the pick added in.

Risto has looked in over his head on the top pairing while playing some of the heaviest minutes in the league. Ghost has looked in over his head while playing very sheltered offensive third pairing minutes.

With Risto, I think dropping him down to the second pairing and easing up his level of competition will work wonders for his game. And we should be able to do that when Dahlin solidifies himself as our #1 defender.

With Ghost, you can't give him easier minutes than he was already playing last year, and he was playing poorly enough in that role to get benched. You're really just hoping that he's able to fix whatever is broken and turn his career around.

With both of them having similar contracts, I'll put my money on Risto.


I don't think you know very much about Ghost to make those observations. Firstly in 2019, he was injured off and on for the first half of the season, and was supplanted to 3rd pairing, (mainly because of his nagging injuries, but more so do to the fact that Philly had 5 guys who could carry the puck and had some offensive flair, 2 of which were Provorov and Sanheim at 1LD and 2LD). And the sheer fact he was still playing through his injuries, was down to his talent.
The injury got worse and Ghost went on IR, bringing in stay at home Hagg and then the team caught fire, going from 8th in east to challenge for 1st and winning the round robin. Once injury free, with the team gelling and Hagg's style the better fit, there just wasn't the place for Ghost (who's game was replaced by 4 other flyers dmen who are 30+ pt guys).
You can say Ghost was benched, but it had little to do with his play and everything to do with the teams play with the stay at home/shot blocking/hitting Hagg (who is a .25 pts a game guy) in his place. The games Ghost did play in the playoffs he looked solid, albeit unspectacular. SO Ghost, with injuries the past 2 years, 3rd pairing time (and PHI plays a PP with only 1 dman, Provorov or Niskanen), struggled, but most PHI fans will point at injuries/minutes/situations and not a drop off in play.

Overall, it comes down to whether you think Ghost is the 50+ pt guy he was his 1st four seasons, or the guy whose been supplanted by team needs and injuries the last 2 years.

Risto is just 1 yr younger and paid 900k more for 1 less year, those things are about even. But forgetting Ghosts offensive output his first 4 years AND the ridiculous +/- of Risto is a bit unfair. Risto has been consistent, but thats not entirely a complement in regards to his defensive progression, whereas with Ghost you can point at team depth and inujuries for a definitive change.
Risto might look better in 2nd pair minutes, but again its about fit for the team. The hope of Risto becoming a more reliable and better defender is almost the risk that Ghost, injury free, will be able to return to what made him a 50+ pt guy for 4 yrs. Sometimes the singularly best player is not the best fit.

Ghost is the bigger risk, no doubt, whether he can return to his 40+ pt capability with pp and 2nd pairing minutes. This trade above favors the Flyers, but not by much.

I proposed it as it fits what both teams need more. IMO Buff has two young studs, one at RD, with serviceable vets in Montour and Miller at RD, with McCabe and Dahlin at LD. Im not saying BUF is at a win now, but you don't promise Eichel help and sign Hall to a 1 yr without a bit of urgency or change. A BUF defense of Dahlin-Miller, Ghost-Montour, McCabe-Joki looks better to me than with Risto in it and McCabe on 2nd Pair and Joki playing LD.
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Jan. 8, 2021 at 4:55 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: Skyraider112
Guys who play 24+ mins a night for a bad team don't suck.



Why exactly does Risto need a change of scenery? He is putting up 40 point seasons while playing 24+ mins a night on a bad team. Risto is a much more consistent and better overall player than Ghost. Risto also isn't being exposed in the expansion LOL. We protect him, Dahlin, and Joki. Miller is exposed



Not to nitpick but his defense is weak and 40 pts as your leading icetime leader pales to most, +/- isn't the key indicator, but it shows a lot about Risto's 24 mins a night. IMO Risto is still the weak defender with questionable decision making he was 4 yrs ago, whereas Ghost has the higher offensive ceiling has injuries and team depth to blame for his change of production.

Its about fit and team progression. I don't think Risto has shown a higher upside, and don't think he is the solid 1RD you pair with Dahlin, and Joki isn't ready to be 1RD. So I see Risto as 2RD, and maybe in lesser minutes he becomes a better player, (although the same could be said with Ghost returning to better minutes).

I admit the deal is light from the Philly side, but its a risk (as I think both players are flawed) both teams are taking based on needs.

After so many seasons I haven't seen any progression with Risto's game to see him continuing in a first pair role. He eats minutes, but not well. But 24 mins a night and 40 pts on a bad team doesn't mean hes a better player on a better team
Jan. 8, 2021 at 5:05 a.m.
#10
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Am not totally hating this idea. Just for the change of scenery idea. Really dont know if Flyers needs more physicality in their D-roster, but their fans do like to see high volume hitting guys. Gustafsson can play 2nd PP so Ghost not really needee for that. Am saying Philly wins slightly ( just because the doubt Ghost will ever reach his earlier points production, although they say he is finally healthy)
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Jan. 8, 2021 at 9:28 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: Hammerwise
I don't think you know very much about Ghost to make those observations. Firstly in 2019, he was injured off and on for the first half of the season, and was supplanted to 3rd pairing, (mainly because of his nagging injuries, but more so do to the fact that Philly had 5 guys who could carry the puck and had some offensive flair, 2 of which were Provorov and Sanheim at 1LD and 2LD). And the sheer fact he was still playing through his injuries, was down to his talent.
The injury got worse and Ghost went on IR, bringing in stay at home Hagg and then the team caught fire, going from 8th in east to challenge for 1st and winning the round robin. Once injury free, with the team gelling and Hagg's style the better fit, there just wasn't the place for Ghost (who's game was replaced by 4 other flyers dmen who are 30+ pt guys).
You can say Ghost was benched, but it had little to do with his play and everything to do with the teams play with the stay at home/shot blocking/hitting Hagg (who is a .25 pts a game guy) in his place. The games Ghost did play in the playoffs he looked solid, albeit unspectacular. SO Ghost, with injuries the past 2 years, 3rd pairing time (and PHI plays a PP with only 1 dman, Provorov or Niskanen), struggled, but most PHI fans will point at injuries/minutes/situations and not a drop off in play.

Overall, it comes down to whether you think Ghost is the 50+ pt guy he was his 1st four seasons, or the guy whose been supplanted by team needs and injuries the last 2 years.

Risto is just 1 yr younger and paid 900k more for 1 less year, those things are about even. But forgetting Ghosts offensive output his first 4 years AND the ridiculous +/- of Risto is a bit unfair. Risto has been consistent, but thats not entirely a complement in regards to his defensive progression, whereas with Ghost you can point at team depth and inujuries for a definitive change.
Risto might look better in 2nd pair minutes, but again its about fit for the team. The hope of Risto becoming a more reliable and better defender is almost the risk that Ghost, injury free, will be able to return to what made him a 50+ pt guy for 4 yrs. Sometimes the singularly best player is not the best fit.

Ghost is the bigger risk, no doubt, whether he can return to his 40+ pt capability with pp and 2nd pairing minutes. This trade above favors the Flyers, but not by much.

I proposed it as it fits what both teams need more. IMO Buff has two young studs, one at RD, with serviceable vets in Montour and Miller at RD, with McCabe and Dahlin at LD. Im not saying BUF is at a win now, but you don't promise Eichel help and sign Hall to a 1 yr without a bit of urgency or change. A BUF defense of Dahlin-Miller, Ghost-Montour, McCabe-Joki looks better to me than with Risto in it and McCabe on 2nd Pair and Joki playing LD.


You're right, I haven't seen Ghost play enough to judge him for myself. I'm purely basing my opinion on what Flyers fans have said here and in other places. And I wasn't even aware that he was playing hurt last year, so thanks for adding that insight.

And I agree, in theory it makes perfect sense for the Sabres to swap one of our righties for a LHD who can play second pairing minutes.

That being said, I guess my point of contention is that nothing I've read online gives me confidence that Ghost can come in and be that guy. He could be, but he feels very risky to me. And with three years left at $4.5M, that's more risk than I really want to take on. Neither have a good contract in my view, and I'd rather have the one with two years left than three.

I think it's something I'd be more willing to do if he comes into this season and shows that last year's struggles were in fact due to injury, and that he's still a solid offensive defenseman.
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Jan. 8, 2021 at 4:46 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: Skyraider112
WellNot a perfect player and he certainly has holes in his game (what player doesn't?).
Quoting: Shootica
I've thought about this idea before and I wouldn't swap Risto for Ghost, even with the pick added in.
Quoting: Hammerwise
I don't think you know very much about Ghost to make those observations.
What a great conversation.
I can hardly believe I read three different comments and not one negative remark.
Let's all agree to agree that there were many good points.
Let's all agree that the trade makes sense for both the Sabres and Flyers RHD for LHD.
Let's all agree that Gostisbehere injury made last season look really bad.
Let's all agree that at the start of '18-'19 Fletcher would have asked for first with Ristolainen.
Let's all agree that neither will be in the running for the best defensive defenseman soon.
Finally, let's all agree that they are strong offensive defensemen.

My goodness I cannot believe a contributor from another team recognizes this "IMO Buff has two young studs, one at RD, with serviceable vets in Montour and Miller at RD, with McCabe and Dahlin at LD." Most Buffalo fans think the Buffalo defense sucks. You my friend nailed it perfectly.

It would certainly make an interesting trade.
IMO Fletcher would want it to be straight up and Adams would want more.
Adams seems to be willing to take a chance and he may make this trade to balance the RHD with the LHD, I would not make this trade.

Great post, great discussion, great comments, loved reading all of them.

My word, what is this world coming to, my second rant of the day.
 
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