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nOt A tOp 15 PrOsPeCt pOoL

Created by: Caniac2000
Team: 2020-21 Carolina Hurricanes
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 11, 2021
Published: Jan. 11, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
LOOK AT THIS! HOW IS THIS NOT A TOP 15 PROSPECT POOL?
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
2$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
3$925,000
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
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2022
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2023
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
32$81,500,000$69,208,847$1,367,073$897,500$12,291,153
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
RFA
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$853,333$853,333
C
RFA - 4
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$925,000$925,000
RW
RFA - 4
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$925,000$925,000
C, LW
RFA
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$894,167$894,167
C
RFA - 4
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$925,000$925,000
C, LW, RW
RFA
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$863,333$863,333
LW, RW
UFA - 3
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$818,333$818,333
C
RFA - 5
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$925,000$925,000
RW
RFA
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$925,000$925,000
LW
RFA
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$925,000$925,000
C
RFA
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$925,000$925,000
RW
RFA
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$925,000$925,000
C
RFA
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$809,166$809,166 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
C
UFA - 2
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$925,000$925,000
RW
RFA
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$925,000$925,000
C
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$925,000$925,000
C
RFA
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$925,000$925,000
RW
RFA
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
LD/RD
RFA - 1
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$809,166$809,166 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
RD
RFA - 2
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$737,500$737,500
G
UFA - 1
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$803,333$803,333 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
LD
RFA - 2
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$925,000$925,000
RD
RFA
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$925,000$925,000
LD
RFA
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$925,000$925,000
LD
RFA
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$925,000$925,000
G
UFA
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$925,000$925,000
LD
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$925,000$925,000
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$925,000$925,000
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RFA
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$925,000$925,000
LD
RFA
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$925,000$925,000
G
UFA
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$925,000$925,000
G
RFA

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Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:18 a.m.
#26
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
I know that the backlash against Hockey Twitter is a thing, and I know that our pool doesn't have elite prospects outside of Jarvis, however, there are at least 15 guys on here that have a very good chance to be effective NHL role players, which no other pool can boast outside of Los Angeles. On top of that, you have maybe 5-10 more guys on top that are pure boom-or-bust and are not likely to be NHL players, but if they are, could be impact guys. To me, I see Carolina as being anywhere from the #3-to-#8 prospect pool in the league, depending on what you're looking for in a farm. It's certainly the best prospect pool of any contending club in hockey, which says a LOT.

I would also keep Geekie as a prospect, for now, just because he's only played 2 regular-season games in the NHL.


Who are the 15 guys who have a “very good chance” of being nhl players?
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:18 a.m.
#27
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Quoting: Caerii
Sure, once you can thoughtfully explain why this group of prospects is one of the top 5 best in the league.


I'll tell you why. It's very difficult to amass the gigantic bubble of potential NHLers that Carolina has. That will pay off when they have guys in their middle-6 on team-controlled RFA contracts, allowing the FO to richly pay the superstars already on the team.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:19 a.m.
#28
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Quoting: Caerii
Sure, once you can thoughtfully explain why this group of prospects is one of the top 5 best in the league.


Alexander Pashin is literally murdering Russia
Ryan Suzuki is still Ryan Suzuki. He's still a solid top 6 prospect.
Jake Bean is an NHL calibre D man who is victim to the Canes deep blueline.
Noel Gunler is one of the best pure goalscorers from the most recent draft.
Honka is a maestro
Fensore has top 4 upside.
Geekie is the best scoring player ever in terms of PPG in the NHL.
Lafontaine is currently sat on .960 sv% as a starter for Minnesota in the NCAA.
Makiniemi is putting up meh numbers in a mens league as a young goalie.
Drury is tearing up the SHL
Jamieson Rees is a monster.

Just... click on this link

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/55/carolina-hurricanes/in-the-system?sort=ppg
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:19 a.m.
#29
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Quoting: jfrojelin
probably borderline there but yeah your 2020 draft was great, but doesn't fix the pool totally. Draft the same way next year and I agree.


2019 draft was probably better. This pool is stacked. Not in terms of high end talent, but players that are going to be in the NHL, it's SOOO deep
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:23 a.m.
#30
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Quoting: DaveAyersStan
Who are the 15 guys who have a “very good chance” of being nhl players?


IMO, Jarvis, Gunler, Geekie, and Drury are pretty much guarantees to be top-9 forwards in the NHL. After that is a huge bubble of good-chance NHLers in some capacity, including Bean, Suzuki, Keane, Rees, Bokk, Cotton, Sellgren, Puistola, Ponomaryov, Honka, and Tieksola. Beyond that are either goalies, which you can't judge, very long-term NCAA projects, and true boom-or-bust long shot guys that I'm going to wait-and-see on. To me, the most impressive aspect of our pool is that middle bubble.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:28 a.m.
#31
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
IMO, Jarvis, Gunler, Geekie, and Drury are pretty much guarantees to be top-9 forwards in the NHL. After that is a huge bubble of good-chance NHLers in some capacity, including Bean, Suzuki, Keane, Rees, Bokk, Cotton, Sellgren, Puistola, Ponomaryov, Honka, and Tieksola. Beyond that are either goalies, which you can't judge, very long-term NCAA projects, and true boom-or-bust guys that I'm going to wait-and-see on.


If you want a combination of all those things, Jack Lafontaine!
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Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:29 a.m.
#32
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Quoting: Caniac2000
If you want a combination of all those things, Jack Lafontaine!


VERY true. That guy took forever to become a worthwhile prospect, but I'm so happy for him that he is now. Truly the David Cotton of goalies.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:36 a.m.
#33
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
VERY true. That guy took forever to become a worthwhile prospect, but I'm so happy for him that he is now. Truly the David Cotton of goalies.


He's sitting on a .960 in 10 games. If his save percentage gets any higher, he's going to be tested for narcotics.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:37 a.m.
#34
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Quoting: Caniac2000
If you want a combination of all those things, Jack Lafontaine!


But yeah, that middle bubble is the reason why our pool is IMO a top-5 one. That group is what generates those ultra-valuable RFA team-controlled spots on our roster.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:38 a.m.
#35
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Alexander Pashin is literally murdering Russia
Ryan Suzuki is still Ryan Suzuki. He's still a solid top 6 prospect.
Jake Bean is an NHL calibre D man who is victim to the Canes deep blueline.
Noel Gunler is one of the best pure goalscorers from the most recent draft.
Honka is a maestro
Fensore has top 4 upside.
Geekie is the best scoring player ever in terms of PPG in the NHL.
Lafontaine is currently sat on .960 sv% as a starter for Minnesota in the NCAA.
Makiniemi is putting up meh numbers in a mens league as a young goalie.
Drury is tearing up the SHL
Jamieson Rees is a monster.

Just... click on this link

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/55/carolina-hurricanes/in-the-system?sort=ppg


This is crazy. Some of these explanations are exactly why I can't take you seriously when you say it's a top 5 group.

"Alex Pashin is literally murdering Russia" - is ranked SEVENTH in points per game (with 10+ GP) the JUNIOR LEAGUE.
"Geekie is the best scoring player ever in terms of PPG in the NHL" - has played 2 games
"Jack Drury is tearing up the SHL" - is 20th in scoring and 38th in PPG (10+ games)
"Honka is a maestro"," Jamieson Rees is a monster" - wow excellent analysis

None of these players are special. Pashin, Honka, Fensore, Makiniemi, Drury. Most teams have several prospects like these.
Suzuki, Rees, Gunler may have solid potential, but they're no different than looking at a team like Minnesota with O'Rourke, Khusnutdinov, Beckman, Khovanov.

Every top team at this point has a laundry list of guys that could be NHL players, and even several that could be top 6 players. The difference is Carolina doesn't have the first line players that other top teams do.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:39 a.m.
#36
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Quoting: Caniac2000
He's sitting on a .960 in 10 games. If his save percentage gets any higher, he's going to be tested for narcotics.


Minnesota's defense is beyond insane, though, and is stacked to the brim with NHL-drafted guys, most notoriously Ryan Johnson, so that plays a role in Laffer's psychotically absurd SV%. Still very impressive, though.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:44 a.m.
#37
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Quoting: Caerii
This is crazy. Some of these explanations are exactly why I can't take you seriously when you say it's a top 5 group.

"Alex Pashin is literally murdering Russia" - is ranked SEVENTH in points per game (with 10+ GP) the JUNIOR LEAGUE.
"Geekie is the best scoring player ever in terms of PPG in the NHL" - has played 2 games
"Jack Drury is tearing up the SHL" - is 20th in scoring and 38th in PPG (10+ games)
"Honka is a maestro"," Jamieson Rees is a monster" - wow excellent analysis

None of these players are special. Pashin, Honka, Fensore, Makiniemi, Drury. Most teams have several prospects like these.
Suzuki, Rees, Gunler may have solid potential, but they're no different than looking at a team like Minnesota with O'Rourke, Khusnutdinov, Beckman, Khovanov.

Every top team at this point has a laundry list of guys that could be NHL players, and even several that could be top 6 players. The difference is Carolina doesn't have the first line players that other top teams do.


Read my comments above. Most NHL farms do not have the kind of depth that Carolina has, at least when it comes to that middle sphere.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:46 a.m.
#38
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
Minnesota's defense is beyond insane, though, and is stacked to the brim with NHL-drafted guys, most notoriously Ryan Johnson, so that plays a role in Laffer's psychotically absurd SV%. Still very impressive, though.


Oh, no doubt his defense helps him, but that doesn't matter, lemme get way too overhyped for a goalie that clearly won't make it!
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:46 a.m.
#39
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Edited Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:54 a.m.
Quoting: Hockyluv21
Read my comments above. Most NHL farms do not have the kind of depth that Carolina has, at least when it comes to that middle sphere.


Again, the depth is great, but most of the top teams also have depth. The difference is the other top teams then have the high end guys on top of the depth, Carolina doesn't.

As an example, Minnesota's pool (because I'm most familiar with it) has these guys as potential NHL players:

Kirill Kaprizov
Marco Rossi
Matt Boldy
Brennan Menell
Marat Khusnutdinov
Ryan O'Rourke
Daemon Hunt
Pavel Novak
Vladislav Firstov
Hunter Jones
Adam Beckman
Marshall Warren
Nikita Nesterenko
Filip Johansson
Alex Khovanov
Connor Dewar
Sam Hentges
Mason Shaw

That's 18 guys with a potential NHL future in some capacity. The difference here is the Hurricanes have no one on the level of Kaprizov or Rossi in their pipeline. Jarvis and Boldy are arguably roughly similar.

That's why you can't cry foul when you're not considered a top 5-10 pool. Like it or not, high end talent is weighted higher than depth. Depth is nice, but it's fairly easy to get compared to high end talent. The reason a team like Colorado can arguably be ranked higher, despite their lack of depth, is because Byram is better than any prospect in the Carolina pool, and Newhook is considered to be in that realm as well at this point.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:48 a.m.
#40
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Oh, no doubt his defense helps him, but that doesn't matter, lemme get way too overhyped for a goalie that clearly won't make it!


From where I had thought that he was on the bust trajectory just a couple of years ago to where he is today, just getting ELCed is a huge accomplishment. I think he certainly deserves one.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:48 a.m.
#41
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Quoting: Caerii
This is crazy. Some of these explanations are exactly why I can't take you seriously when you say it's a top 5 group.

"Alex Pashin is literally murdering Russia" - is ranked SEVENTH in points per game (with 10+ GP) the JUNIOR LEAGUE.
"Geekie is the best scoring player ever in terms of PPG in the NHL" - has played 2 games
"Jack Drury is tearing up the SHL" - is 20th in scoring and 38th in PPG (10+ games)
"Honka is a maestro"," Jamieson Rees is a monster" - wow excellent analysis

None of these players are special. Pashin, Honka, Fensore, Makiniemi, Drury. Most teams have several prospects like these.
Suzuki, Rees, Gunler may have solid potential, but they're no different than looking at a team like Minnesota with O'Rourke, Khusnutdinov, Beckman, Khovanov.

Every top team at this point has a laundry list of guys that could be NHL players, and even several that could be top 6 players. The difference is Carolina doesn't have the first line players that other top teams do.


For prospects? That's MORE than great. Jack Drury is 20 playing against guys far bigger in Sweden and he's 20th in scoring you said? That's incredible. He's not a blue chip guy, Carolina don't have that. All their blue chip guys are on the roster (Necas, Svechnikov, Aho). But Pashin could easily be a top liner, Rees will be a top 6 player, Suzuki will be a top six player. You're underrating a lot of the prospects here and I think it's more not knowing the players than trying to refute the claim.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:49 a.m.
#42
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Quoting: Caerii
Again, the depth is great, but most of the top teams also have depth. The difference is the other top teams then have the high end guys on top of the depth, Carolina doesn't.


Carolina have a lot of higher end guys. No Top end guys. There is a major difference.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:49 a.m.
#43
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
From where I had thought that he was on the bust trajectory just a couple of years ago to where he is today, just getting ELCed is a huge accomplishment. I think he certainly deserves one.


He deserves a shot

Edit: Or 29 against.... Goalie puns
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:51 a.m.
#44
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Quoting: Caerii
Again, the depth is great, but most of the top teams also have depth. The difference is the other top teams then have the high end guys on top of the depth, Carolina doesn't.


I would argue that Jarvis belongs as a high-end guy. He could certainly become a first liner as a do-it-all right-winger. Gunler, Geekie, and Drury are IMO for-sure NHL top-9 forwards in 3-4 years or so. Then the gigantic "good-chance NHLer" bubble starts at (IMO) Bean at #5 and ends at Tieksola at #15, which is a huge pool of potential RFA talent.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:58 a.m.
#45
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
Read my comments above. Most NHL farms do not have the kind of depth that Carolina has, at least when it comes to that middle sphere.


But the point is that every prospect theoretically has good upside. The high end prospects are what really matters. That’s why Colorado has a highly ranked prospect pool because Byram/newhook LA has turcotte/byfield minnesota has Rossi/kaprizov/boldy. All of these prospects are probably top 25 in the whole nhl and these teams have multiple of them.
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Jan. 11, 2021 at 1:59 a.m.
#46
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Quoting: Caerii
Again, the depth is great, but most of the top teams also have depth. The difference is the other top teams then have the high end guys on top of the depth, Carolina doesn't.

As an example, Minnesota's pool (because I'm most familiar with it) has these guys as potential NHL players:

Kirill Kaprizov
Marco Rossi
Matt Boldy
Brennan Menell
Marat Khusnutdinov
Ryan O'Rourke
Daemon Hunt
Pavel Novak
Vladislav Firstov
Hunter Jones
Adam Beckman
Marshall Warren
Nikita Nesterenko
Filip Johansson
Alex Khovanov
Connor Dewar
Sam Hentges
Mason Shaw

That's 18 guys with a potential NHL future in some capacity. The difference here is the Hurricanes have no one on the level of Kaprizov or Rossi in their pipeline. Jarvis and Boldy are arguably roughly similar.


I would say that Rossi and Kaprizov are elite prospects. Boldy, Khovanov, and Beckman are for-sure NHLers. O'Rourke, Khusnutdinov, Firstov, Hunt, and Addison are "good-chance NHLers". The rest are either boom-or-bust, goalies, or long-shots.

For comparison, in Carolina's pool, Jarvis is an elite prospect. Geekie, Gunler, Drury, and Bean are for-sure NHLers. In order of personal rank, Suzuki, Keane, Rees, Bokk, Cotton, Sellgren, Puistola, Ponomaryov, Honka, and Tieksola are "good chance" NHLers. The rest are either boom-or-bust, goalies, or long-shots.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 2:03 a.m.
#47
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Quoting: Caniac2000
For prospects? That's MORE than great. Jack Drury is 20 playing against guys far bigger in Sweden and he's 20th in scoring you said? That's incredible. He's not a blue chip guy, Carolina don't have that. All their blue chip guys are on the roster (Necas, Svechnikov, Aho). But Pashin could easily be a top liner, Rees will be a top 6 player, Suzuki will be a top six player. You're underrating a lot of the prospects here and I think it's more not knowing the players than trying to refute the claim.


This is my issue. First off, I was heavily invested into scouting both the 2019 and 2020 in my free time. I'm very familiar with a lot of these prospects you're bringing up. I'm not underrating them. It's not a lack of knowledge.

Again, you have a few guys that could be top 6 players. To act like these players are locks to be top 6, to say a guy like Pashin could easily be a first liner, it just shows you're not interested in having an unbiased good-faith discussion.

We can agree on the potential of some of these players to be second line, but the problem still remains that high end or elite talent is weighted much heavier than these "top 6"/second line/middle six players, and Carolina doesn't have the high end and elite talent that New York, Ottawa, LA, Colorado Detroit, Minnesota, Buffalo, Anaheim has.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 2:07 a.m.
#48
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
I would say that Rossi and Kaprizov are elite prospects. Boldy, Khovanov, and Beckman are for-sure NHLers. O'Rourke, Khusnutdinov, Firstov, Hunt, and Addison are "good-chance NHLers". The rest are either boom-or-bust, goalies, or long-shots.

For comparison, in Carolina's pool, Jarvis is an elite prospect. Geekie, Gunler, Drury, and Bean are for-sure NHLers. In order of personal rank, Suzuki, Keane, Rees, Bokk, Cotton, Sellgren, Puistola, Ponomaryov, Honka, and Tieksola are "good chance" NHLers. The rest are either boom-or-bust, goalies, or long-shots.


O'Rourke is as for sure an NHLer as you can get for a guy taken outside of the first round 3 months ago. He's a more certain NHLer than Khovanov and Beckman. Addison would be in the NHL this season if Minnesota didn't have one of the best defenses in the league. This is why I can't take your evaluation of prospects seriously.

Also going to have to disagree that Jarvis is on a higher tier than Boldy. They both have first line scoring potential. Boldy has a more well rounded and NHL tailored game.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 2:09 a.m.
#49
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Quoting: Caerii
This is my issue. First off, I was heavily invested into scouting both the 2019 and 2020 in my free time. I'm very familiar with a lot of these prospects you're bringing up. I'm not underrating them. It's not a lack of knowledge.

Again, you have a few guys that could be top 6 players. To act like these players are locks to be top 6, to say a guy like Pashin could easily be a first liner, it just shows you're not interested in having an unbiased good-faith discussion.

We can agree on the potential of some of these players to be second line, but the problem still remains that high end or elite talent is weighted much heavier than these "top 6"/second line/middle six players, and Carolina doesn't have the high end and elite talent that New York, Ottawa, LA, Colorado Detroit, Minnesota, Buffalo, Anaheim has.


The post that I wrote above shows where Carolina differentiates itself. The middle bubble accumulates quickly. Both Minny and Carolina IMO have five for-sure NHLers. As far as elite guys are concerned, the Canes have Jarvis while Minnesota has Rossi and Kaprizov. I calculate that as a win for Minnesota. After that, though, is where Carolina breaks away.
Jan. 11, 2021 at 2:12 a.m.
#50
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
The post that I wrote above shows where Carolina differentiates itself. The middle bubble accumulates quickly. Both Minny and Carolina IMO have five for-sure NHLers. As far as elite guys are concerned, the Canes have Jarvis while Minnesota has Rossi and Kaprizov. I calculate that as a win for Minnesota. After that, though, is where Carolina breaks away.


But you don't breakaway. You can't expect me to take you at your word that your guys all have NHL potential, if you're going to sit here and tell me my guys don't. I'm willing to take you at your word that you know your pool better than I do, overall, but in exchange, please understand that I know my pool better than you do. If you want to sit here and tell me you have 15 guys with NHL potential, I'm going to show you my 19 guys with NHL potential.
 
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