Forums/Armchair-GM

Nick Lidstrom is the best DEFENSEman off all time change my mind

Initial Creation Date: Jan 17, 2021
Published: Jan 17 at 7:40
Team: 2020-21 Detroit Red Wings
Team Explanation
Orr was better at offense but no one comes close to Lidstrom's defense
Trades
DET
  1. Skinner, Stuart
  2. 2022 3rd round pick (EDM)
EDM
  1. Bernier, Jonathan
Buyouts
  • Justin Abdelkader: $1,805,556
  • Stephen Weiss: $1,666,667
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
DET
DET
EDM
NYR
DET
VGK
DET
DET
DET
2022
DET
DET
DET
EDM
DET
VGK
DET
DET
DET
2023
DET
DET
DET
DET
DET
DET
DET
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
25$81,500,000$72,434,722$0$1,460,000$9,065,278
Left WingCenterRight Wing
DET
Bertuzzi, Tyler
$3,500,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
DET
Larkin, Dylan
$6,100,000
C, LW
UFA - 3
DET
Mantha, Anthony
$5,700,000
RW, LW
UFA - 4
DET
Fabbri, Robby
$2,950,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
DET
Namestnikov, Vladislav
$2,000,000
RW, LW, C
UFA - 2
DET
Zadina, Filip
$894,167
LW, RW
RFA - 2
DET
Helm, Darren
$3,850,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
DET
Filppula, Valtteri
$3,000,000
C, LW
NTC
UFA - 1
DET
Ryan, Bobby
$1,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
DET
Glendening, Luke
$1,800,000
C, RW, LW
UFA - 1
DET
Nielsen, Frans
$5,250,000
C
NTC
UFA - 2
DET
Gagner, Sam
$850,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
DET
Staal, Marc
$5,700,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
DET
Hronek, Filip
$714,166
RD
RFA - 1
DET
Greiss, Thomas
$3,600,000
G
UFA - 2
DET
DeKeyser, Danny
$5,000,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 2
DET
Stecher, Troy
$1,700,000
RD
UFA - 2
EDM
Skinner, Stuart
$784,166
G
RFA - 1
DET
Nemeth, Patrik
$3,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
DET
Biega, Alex
$875,000
RD
UFA - 1
DET
Djoos, Christian
$1,000,000
LD
RFA - 1
DET
Merrill, Jon
$925,000
LD
UFA - 1
DET
McIsaac, Jared
$764,167
LD
RFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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Bromé, Mathias
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
DET
Zetterberg, Henrik
$6,083,333
C
UFA - 1
DET
Erne, Adam
$997,500
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Taxi Squad
DET
Cholowski, Dennis
$894,166 ($0)
LD
RFA - 1
DET
Rasmussen, Michael
$894,166 ($0)
LW, C, RW
RFA - 1
DET
Lindström, Gustav
$775,833 ($0)
RD
RFA - 1
DET
Boyle, Kevin
$775,000 ($0)
G
UFA - 1
DET
Pickard, Calvin
$750,000 ($0)
G
UFA - 1
DET
Smith, Givani
$714,166 ($0)
LW
RFA - 1

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Jan 17 at 7:43
#1
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 733
have you seen victor mete?
AndrewLadd and OutCold13 liked this.
Jan 17 at 7:44
#2
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 149
Likes: 72
Orr changed the game. Lidstrom perfected it.
It's kind of hard to say who is better overall, being that the eras they played in was so incredibly different. Maybe a bit of homerism, but I'd still take Lidstrom over Orr.
LeafsFan4Ever34, DeadWingsv2, OldNYIfan and 2 others liked this.
Jan 17 at 7:47
#3
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 884
Orr did both, was essentially a plus one for his career per game, you went into a game with Orr basically up 1-0. I actually have bourque second then lidstrom.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 7:47
#4
Thread Starter
StarWars addict here
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10,836
Likes: 4,787
Quoting: HypotheticalImpossibility
Orr changed the game. Lidstrom perfected it.
It's kind of hard to say who is better overall, being that the eras they played in was so incredibly different. Maybe a bit of homerism, but I'd still take Lidstrom over Orr.


I just think that in terms of shutting down his opponents, Lidstrom is just in another league
Jan 17 at 7:50
#5
Hockey Fan13
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1,735
I can't change your mind because I agree with you.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 7:52
#6
Thread Starter
StarWars addict here
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10,836
Likes: 4,787
Quoting: Theozler
Orr did both, was essentially a plus one for his career per game, you went into a game with Orr basically up 1-0. I actually have bourque second then lidstrom.


Nah Lidstrom's ahead of Bourque that's for sure. Bourque didn't win Norris trophies in his late thirties. Lidstrom did.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 7:54
#7
Malkinwants2beTheMan
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,234
Likes: 689
I gotta go with Brett Lebda.
Jan 17 at 7:54
#8
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 884
Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Nah Lidstrom's ahead of Bourque that's for sure. Bourque didn't win Norris trophies in his late thirties. Lidstrom did.


Bourque made season end all star team 19 of 22 times, more first team all stars than lidstrom made total. Age for Norris shouldn't matter, that's like me saying well lidstrom never won them before 3.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 7:55
#9
Thread Starter
StarWars addict here
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10,836
Likes: 4,787
Quoting: Theozler
Bourque made season end all star team 19 of 22 times, more first team all stars than lidstrom made total. Age for Norris shouldn't matter, that's like me saying well lidstrom never won them before 3.


Which is still damn impressive lol, your physical prime is usually in your late 20s
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 7:56
#10
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 13,400
Likes: 6,152
Hes definitely one if the best, but this is still Pandora's vox you are opening
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 7:59
#11
Bandwagon fairweathe
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 3,895
Likes: 1,198
That detroit team was so stacked for the length of lidstroms career, was that on lidstroms abilities. Amazing thing with lidstroms was he the best at anything, other than the complete package of doing it all. There was bigger shots, better skaters, bigger hitters, but none better taking sticks and bodies away in the defensive zone, and solid in first pass and running the pp. personally i side with the physical specimen of a pronger and him gliding around and quietly playing half the game with a nasty elbow or stick to anybody close to him. Injuries derailed him though. Honourable mention to Konstantinov one beast of a blue liner with a career cut way too short.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 8:03
#12
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 9,965
Likes: 5,450
Is this a hot take? Orr played when there were no good hockey players, and nobody who played real hockey even comes close to him. If Erik Karlsson had been able to play like peak Erik Karlsson for another decade plus he'd have been in the conversation, but beyond that there's like maybe five players worth mentioning in the same breath as Lidstrom.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 8:05
#13
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 884
Quoting: Claesson4Norris
Is this a hot take? Orr played when there were no good hockey players, and nobody who played real hockey even comes close to him. If Erik Karlsson had been able to play like peak Erik Karlsson for another decade plus he'd have been in the conversation, but beyond that there's like maybe five players worth mentioning in the same breath as Lidstrom.


Then why was Orr the only one doing it? No other defenseman has sniffed a scoring title
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 8:12
#14
Pre-Med Pain.
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 14,858
Likes: 4,860
This is NOT a hot take.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 8:12
#15
Banned
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,220
Likes: 538
Quoting: Theozler
Then why was Orr the only one doing it? No other defenseman has sniffed a scoring title


that's my thing when comparing players from different eras. How much better was player x compared to the players he played against
Jan 17 at 8:14
#16
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 823
Likes: 440
Quoting: Theozler
Orr did both, was essentially a plus one for his career per game, you went into a game with Orr basically up 1-0. I actually have bourque second then lidstrom.

That's hardcore homerism for Boston. Borque was great, but 1/2 is Orr/Lidstrom (however you want to order them) and then everyone else. That's not even debatable.
Jan 17 at 8:15
#17
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 884
Quoting: BigOaf69
that's my thing when comparing players from different eras. How much better was player x compared to the players he played against


If they had ability for knee surgery they do today, orr would have 12 Norris trophies and this wouldn't even be a question.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jan 17 at 8:16
#18
Go Wings Go
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 28,536
Likes: 6,418
Yeah Detroit's in no position to move Jonathon Bernier just yet, Depending on what happens at the TDL. We'll just wait until then.
Theozler liked this.
Jan 17 at 8:16
#19
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 884
Quoting: DeadWingsv2
That's hardcore homerism for Boston. Borque was great, but 1/2 is Orr/Lidstrom (however you want to order them) and then everyone else. That's not even debatable.


I'm not even a bruins fan. And Harvey shore are in the discussion for 2-5 as well. Bourque was considered a top four defenseman in the league 19 of his 22 years no other defenseman can touch that.
Jan 17 at 8:18
#20
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 823
Likes: 440
Quoting: Theozler
If they had ability for knee surgery they do today, orr would have 12 Norris trophies and this wouldn't even be a question.

In that same vein then, you could argue that Lidstrom would have been way more effective in Orr's era. I think it's apples to oranges to compare the two, but I think for their generations they were SO far better than everyone else, that when you compare that historically, they are the 2 best of all time. I personally think trying to determine which one was "number one" is pointless.
Jan 17 at 8:20
#21
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 884
Quoting: DeadWingsv2
In that same vein then, you could argue that Lidstrom would have been way more effective in Orr's era. I think it's apples to oranges to compare the two, but I think for their generations they were SO far better than everyone else, that when you compare that historically, they are the 2 best of all time. I personally think trying to determine which one was "number one" is pointless.


Then why leave Harvey out?
Jan 17 at 8:20
#22
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 823
Likes: 440
Quoting: Theozler
I'm not even a bruins fan. And Harvey shore are in the discussion for 2-5 as well. Bourque was considered a top four defenseman in the league 19 of his 22 years no other defenseman can touch that.

Lidstrom was top 1 essentially his entire career. Borque was fantastic, but not better than Lidstrom.
Jan 17 at 8:21
#23
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 823
Likes: 440
Quoting: Theozler
Then why leave Harvey out?

I wouldn't in the top 5, but top 2 is Lidstom/Orr easily.
Jan 17 at 8:21
#24
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 5,415
Likes: 2,556
Aki Berg GOAT.
DeadWingsv2 liked this.
Jan 17 at 8:22
#25
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 823
Likes: 440
Quoting: tkecanuck341
Aki Berg GOAT.

Per Djoos
 
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