Forums/Armchair-GM

Dubois Minnesota

Created by: Leafs05
Initial Creation Date: Jan 20, 2021
Published: Jan 20 at 3:44
Team: 2020-21 Minnesota Wild
Team Explanation
No team needs a centre more than the Wild. Dubois is the perfect choice.
Trades
MIN
  1. Dubois, Pierre-Luc ($1,000,000 retained)
CBJ
  1. Rask, Victor
  2. Addison, Calen
  3. 2021 1st round pick (PIT)
  4. 2021 3rd round pick (PIT)
Additional Details:
Matthew Boldy
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Devan Dubnyk: $2,166,666 (50%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
2022
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
SJS
MIN
2023
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$79,999,422$0$925,000$1,500,578
Left WingCenterRight Wing
MIN
Parise, Zach
$7,538,461
LW
NMC
UFA - 5
CBJ
Dubois, Pierre-Luc
$4,000,000
C
RFA - 2
MIN
Kaprizov, Kirill
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
MIN
Fiala, Kevin
$3,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
MIN
Bonino, Nick
$4,100,000
C
UFA - 1
MIN
Zuccarello, Mats
$6,000,000
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 4
MIN
Johansson, Marcus
$4,500,000
C, LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
MIN
Eriksson Ek, Joel
$1,487,500
C
RFA - 1
MIN
Greenway, Jordan
$2,100,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
MIN
Foligno, Marcus
$2,875,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
MIN
Bjugstad, Nick
$2,050,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
MIN
Hartman, Ryan
$1,900,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
MIN
Sturm, Nico
$725,000
C
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
MIN
Suter, Ryan
$7,538,461
LD
NMC
UFA - 5
MIN
Spurgeon, Jared
$7,575,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 7
MIN
Talbot, Cam
$3,666,667
G
UFA - 3
MIN
Brodin, Jonas
$4,166,667
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
MIN
Dumba, Matt
$6,000,000
RD
UFA - 3
MIN
Stalock, Alex
$785,000
G
UFA - 2
MIN
Soucy, Carson
$2,750,000
LD
UFA - 3
MIN
Cole, Ian
$3,450,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
MIN
Hunt, Brad
$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
MIN
Bartkowski, Matt
$700,000 ($0)
RD
UFA - 1
MIN
Mermis, Dakota
$700,000 ($0)
RD
UFA - 1
MIN
Johnson, Luke
$700,000 ($0)
C
RFA - 1
MIN
Belpedio, Louis
$700,000 ($0)
RD
RFA - 1
MIN
Rossi, Marco
$925,000 ($0)
C
RFA - 3
MIN
Kähkönen, Kaapo
$725,000 ($0)
G
RFA - 2

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Jan 20 at 3:46
#1
cheeks klapanen
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,873
Likes: 3,069
Rossi.
Jan 20 at 3:49
#2
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 888
Quoting: leafs101
Rossi.


There is zero chance a Dubois deal returns Rossi or another prospect like Rossi. Teams do not trade those, and there is no point for the Wild to do so.
Jan 20 at 4:02
#3
cheeks klapanen
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,873
Likes: 3,069
Quoting: Caerii
There is zero chance a Dubois deal returns Rossi or another prospect like Rossi. Teams do not trade those, and there is no point for the Wild to do so.


yes, teams trade 9th overall picks for 22 year old #1Cs if they are available.
sword liked this.
Jan 20 at 4:04
#4
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 888
Quoting: leafs101
yes, teams trade 9th overall picks for 22 year old #1Cs if they are available.


Well this isn't really relevant is it, considering Dubois isn't a 1C and Rossi isn't your average 9th overall pick. It was a good attempt to oversimplify the situation to fit your narrative though. Nice try.
Jan 20 at 4:08
#5
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 826
Likes: 442
Quoting: Caerii
Well this isn't really relevant is it, considering Dubois isn't a 1C and Rossi isn't your average 9th overall pick. It was a good attempt to oversimplify the situation to fit your narrative though. Nice try.

Dubois is proven and only 22. Rossi++ would be the package to get him back and anyone who thinks otherwise is overvaluing their own players.
leafs101 liked this.
Jan 20 at 4:09
#6
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 888
Quoting: DeadWingsv2
Dubois is proven and only 22. Rossi++ would be the package to get him back and anyone who thinks otherwise is overvaluing their own players.


Oh, value-wise, sure. Reality is a different animal though. Rossi isn't being traded for Dubois. If that's a deal breaker for Columbus, they'll send him elsewhere. I can guarantee you, if Dubois ends up in Minnesota, Rossi will still be here.
Jan 20 at 4:12
#7
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 7,218
Likes: 5,315
The ironic thing to me is this trade is essentially Zucker, Rask, and Boldy for Dubois. I'd make this deal
sword and MNBassman liked this.
Jan 20 at 4:18
#8
StarWars addict here
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10,878
Likes: 4,814
Quoting: Caerii
Well this isn't really relevant is it, considering Dubois isn't a 1C and Rossi isn't your average 9th overall pick. It was a good attempt to oversimplify the situation to fit your narrative though. Nice try.


Except Dubois IS a 1C lol. He's get 70-75 pts with a better offensive team around him
Jan 20 at 4:20
#9
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,409
Likes: 2,026
Quoting: DeadWingsv2
Dubois is proven and only 22. Rossi++ would be the package to get him back and anyone who thinks otherwise is overvaluing their own players.


Define proven because I see a center who has a high of 61 points playing with Panarin and 49 points in 70 games playing without him (not a huge drop, but still a drop). As a Wild fan, I'd be happy with those points for a 1C but that's because the Wild have never really had a legit 1C (aside from Staal's 17-18 season really). PLD is young and could keep getting better but he also could just be a solid 2C and I'd hate to be the GM who overpays for that.
Caerii liked this.
Jan 20 at 4:20
#10
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 888
Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Except Dubois IS a 1C lol. He's get 70-75 pts with a better offensive team around him


He got 61 points playing with a 90 point Panarin and a 40 goal Atkinson (Ryan Strome got 59 points with Panarin, and no one is mistaking Strome as a 1C). Pump the brakes bud. There is nothing you can provide that proves he's a 1C at this point. And his 1 point in 4 games so far aren't doing much to indicate that he's taken the next step. If he needs elite wingers to put up low end 1C numbers, he's not a 1C.
JayTea liked this.
Jan 20 at 4:22
#11
StarWars addict here
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10,878
Likes: 4,814
Quoting: Caerii
He got 61 points playing with a 90 point Panarin and a 40 goal Atkinson. Pump the brakes bud. There is nothing you can provide that proves he's a 1C at this point. And his 1 point in 4 games so far aren't doing much to indicate that he's taken the next step. If he needs elite wingers to put up low end 1C numbers, he's not a 1C.


Ah yes, good thing he was only a sophomore at that point lol. He wasn't anywhere near his prime. Now he's got much more maturity
Jan 20 at 4:24
#12
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 826
Likes: 442
Quoting: JayTea
Define proven because I see a center who has a high of 61 points playing with Panarin and 49 points in 70 games playing without him (not a huge drop, but still a drop). As a Wild fan, I'd be happy with those points for a 1C but that's because the Wild have never really had a legit 1C (aside from Staal's 17-18 season really). PLD is young and could keep getting better but he also could just be a solid 2C and I'd hate to be the GM who overpays for that.

That was at 20 and 21 respectively. He also didn't center Panarin the whole season that year. I see a player that is stronger, more mature and put up 10pts in 10 playoff games last year. I'm not even a CBJ fan, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but when a 22 year old, 6'3", 218lb center, who can skate well and just came of a point per game playoff, hits the trade market, the cost inflates. I'm not even saying it's going to be worth whatever someone has to give up to get him, only time will tell, I'm just stating that the going rate is going to be STEEP.
leafs101 liked this.
Jan 20 at 4:26
#13
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 888
Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Ah yes, good thing he was only a sophomore at that point lol. He wasn't anywhere near his prime. Now he's got much more maturity


Not all players improve exponentially throughout their careers. And as JayTea pointed out, his next season he regressed to 49 points.

You seem to have shifted the goalposts pretty quickly from "he IS a 1C" to "well he hasn't hit his prime yet".

Let's wait for him to give us any kind of evidence that he's a 1C before we declare him one.
Jan 20 at 4:28
#14
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 888
Quoting: DeadWingsv2
That was at 20 and 21 respectively. He also didn't center Panarin the whole season that year. I see a player that is stronger, more mature and put up 10pts in 10 playoff games last year. I'm not even a CBJ fan, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but when a 22 year old, 6'3", 218lb center, who can skate well and just came of a point per game playoff, hits the trade market, the cost inflates. I'm not even saying it's going to be worth whatever someone has to give up to get him, only time will tell, I'm just stating that the going rate is going to be STEEP.


10 games sample size is what you're hanging his value on? What happens if he only scores 2 more points in the next 6 games, for 3 points in these first 10 games? Are we going to ignore that sample size because it doesn't fit the narrative and it's too small?

I was a huge fan of Dubois at the draft, and I think he can be a really good player. He's never going to reach the level of MacKinnon, Matthews, Eichel, and I'm not even sure he'll hit Barkov/Scheifele territory. He's being overrated because he's young, was drafted high, and is big. Once you look at what he's actually done, it's clear he's not the player some think he is.
Jan 20 at 4:29
#15
dungeon synth
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 166
Likes: 48
Rask is barely an NHLer.
Jan 20 at 4:31
#16
StarWars addict here
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10,878
Likes: 4,814
Quoting: Caerii
Not all players improve exponentially throughout their careers. And as JayTea pointed out, his next season he regressed to 49 points.

You seem to have shifted the goalposts pretty quickly from "he IS a 1C" to "well he hasn't hit his prime yet".

Let's wait for him to give us any kind of evidence that he's a 1C before we declare him one.


Yeah, he did drop to 49 pts.
But you fail to realize his team dropped from 256 goals so 180 goals from 18-19 to 19-20. Ok, they did have quite a bit of injury issues (and this statement in a pretty big euphemism) but still, losing 76 goals is FREAKING HUGE to any team. Plus the season got shortened. He'd be in the 52-53-54-55 pts range if Covid didn't happen.

And yeah you can be a 1C and not be in your prime lol. Do you seriously believe Matthews was in his prime at 19 years of age in 16-17??? Nah he wasn't. Same goes for PLD
leafs101 and justaBoss liked this.
Jan 20 at 4:32
#17
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 888
Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Yeah, he did drop to 49 pts.
But you fail to realize his team dropped from 256 goals so 180 goals from 18-19 to 19-20. Ok, they did have quite a bit of injury issues (and this statement in a pretty big euphemism) but still, losing 76 goals is FREAKING HUGE to any team. Plus the season got shortened. He'd be in the 62-63-64-65 pts range if Covid didn't happen.

And yeah you can be a 1C and not be in your prime lol. Do you seriously believe Matthews was in his prime at 19 years of age in 16-17??? Nah he wasn't. Same goes for PLD


You can be a 1C and not in your prime, correct. Dubois isn't that.
Jan 20 at 4:33
#18
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 66
Likes: 1
Then Columbus will just bury him on the taxi squad or AHL. He's just so Minnesota has cap space to make the trade
Jan 20 at 4:33
#19
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,409
Likes: 2,026
Quoting: DeadWingsv2
That was at 20 and 21 respectively. He also didn't center Panarin the whole season that year. I see a player that is stronger, more mature and put up 10pts in 10 playoff games last year. I'm not even a CBJ fan, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but when a 22 year old, 6'3", 218lb center, who can skate well and just came of a point per game playoff, hits the trade market, the cost inflates. I'm not even saying it's going to be worth whatever someone has to give up to get him, only time will tell, I'm just stating that the going rate is going to be STEEP.


Any player can get hot for a stretch of games, so I wouldn't put too much stock into the 10 points in 10 playoff games. As you said, he's still young and could indeed become an absolute stud but he's not there yet and that's why I said define proven because he doesn't have a track record to support officially dubbing him a 1C. You're probably right that the price will be steep, but that might just be a hockey trade for a player the CBJ like that fits Tort's system. I'd like to see him traded just to see what someone actually is willing to offer.
Jan 20 at 4:35
#20
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,409
Likes: 2,026
Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Yeah, he did drop to 49 pts.
But you fail to realize his team dropped from 256 goals so 180 goals from 18-19 to 19-20. Ok, they did have quite a bit of injury issues (and this statement in a pretty big euphemism) but still, losing 76 goals is FREAKING HUGE to any team. Plus the season got shortened. He'd be in the 52-53-54-55 pts range if Covid didn't happen.

And yeah you can be a 1C and not be in your prime lol. Do you seriously believe Matthews was in his prime at 19 years of age in 16-17??? Nah he wasn't. Same goes for PLD


Matthews also put up 40 goals, 69 points in his rookie season so not exactly an apples to apples comparison there.. lol
Jan 20 at 4:39
#21
cheeks klapanen
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,873
Likes: 3,069
Quoting: Caerii
Not all players improve exponentially throughout their careers. And as JayTea pointed out, his next season he regressed to 49 points.

You seem to have shifted the goalposts pretty quickly from "he IS a 1C" to "well he hasn't hit his prime yet".

Let's wait for him to give us any kind of evidence that he's a 1C before we declare him one.


49 in 70 games. then 10 points in 10 games in the playoffs. That's 59 in 80 games. Not really a regression.
Jan 20 at 4:41
#22
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 888
Quoting: leafs101
49 in 70 games. then 10 points in 10 games in the playoffs. That's 59 in 80 games. Not really a regression.


I'm glad you agree that there's nothing to indicate he's a 1C at this point.
Jan 20 at 4:41
#23
StarWars addict here
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10,878
Likes: 4,814
Quoting: leafs101
49 in 70 games. then 10 points in 10 games in the playoffs. That's 59 in 80 games. Not really a regression.


Considering he wasn't entirely ready to offensively drive a team that's pretty good. Not elite but good
leafs101 liked this.
Jan 20 at 4:49
#24
cheeks klapanen
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,873
Likes: 3,069
Quoting: Caerii
I'm glad you agree that there's nothing to indicate he's a 1C at this point.


~60 points as a 20/21/22 year old is very impressive. Top C quality production on a lot of teams, elite 2C on a contender. And this is production on an offensively weak team as well. He'd be the best C MIN has had in years, playing with Kap or Fiala would give him great help (no Panarin wasn't on his line). I'd argue he's a 1C based on solid production and two-way game, but if you're not convinced he certainly will be within the next couple of years.
Jan 20 at 4:53
#25
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 888
Quoting: leafs101
~60 points as a 20/21/22 year old is very impressive. Top C quality production on a lot of teams, elite 2C on a contender. And this is production on an offensively weak team as well. He'd be the best C MIN has had in years, playing with Kap or Fiala would give him great help (no Panarin wasn't on his line). I'd argue he's a 1C based on solid production and two-way game, but if you're not convinced he certainly will be within the next couple of years.


Off the top of my head, Ryan Strome had a 50 point season as a 21 year old, and Ryan Nugent Hopkins averaged 58 per 82 from ages 18 to 22.

Are those guys 1C's?
 
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