Forums/Armchair-GM

Bonino

Created by: moli92
Initial Creation Date: Jan 20, 2021
Published: Jan 20 at 4:53
Team: 2020-21 Colorado Avalanche
Trades
COL
  1. Bonino, Nick ($2,050,000 retained)
MIN
    Retained Salary Transactions
    • Ian Cole: $800,000 (19%)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2021
    COL
    COL
    COL
    COL
    COL
    2022
    COL
    COL
    COL
    COL
    COL
    COL
    2023
    COL
    COL
    COL
    COL
    COL
    COL
    COL
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$81,500,000$81,451,387$0$2,500,000$48,613
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    COL
    Landeskog, Gabriel
    $5,571,429
    LW, C
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    COL
    MacKinnon, Nathan
    $6,300,000
    C, RW
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    COL
    Rantanen, Mikko
    $9,250,000
    RW
    UFA - 5
    COL
    Saad, Brandon
    $5,000,000
    RW, LW
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    COL
    Kadri, Nazem
    $4,500,000
    C
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    COL
    Burakovsky, André
    $4,900,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    COL
    Nichushkin, Valeri
    $2,500,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    MIN
    Bonino, Nick
    $2,050,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    COL
    Donskoi, Joonas
    $3,900,000
    RW
    UFA - 3
    COL
    Calvert, Matt
    $2,850,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    COL
    Bellemare, Pierre-Édouard
    $1,800,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 1
    COL
    Compher, J.T.
    $3,500,000
    RW, C
    UFA - 3
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    COL
    Toews, Devon
    $4,100,000
    LD
    UFA - 4
    COL
    Makar, Cale
    $880,833
    RD
    RFA - 1
    COL
    Grubauer, Philipp
    $3,333,333
    G
    UFA - 1
    COL
    Girard, Samuel
    $5,000,000
    LD
    UFA - 7
    COL
    Johnson, Erik
    $6,000,000
    RD
    NMC NTC
    UFA - 3
    COL
    Francouz, Pavel
    $2,000,000
    G
    UFA - 2
    COL
    Graves, Ryan
    $3,166,667
    LD
    UFA - 3
    COL
    Timmins, Conor
    $925,000
    RD
    RFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    COL
    Jost, Tyson
    $874,125
    C, LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    COL
    Pateryn, Greg
    $2,250,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Taxi Squad
    COL
    Byram, Bowen
    $894,167 ($0)
    LD
    RFA - 3
    COL
    Kaut, Martin
    $863,333 ($0)
    RW
    RFA - 3
    COL
    Miska, Hunter
    $725,000 ($0)
    G
    RFA - 2
    COL
    Sherwood, Kiefer
    $750,000 ($0)
    RW, C
    RFA - 1
    COL
    Gilbert, Dennis
    $925,000 ($0)
    LD
    RFA - 1

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    Jan 20 at 5:16
    #26
    Joined: Dec 2020
    Posts: 244
    Likes: 51
    Quoting: moli92
    ? I dont see what your goalies have to do with a winger prospect but ok


    I just changed it. Again it's the same thing, Colorado fans need to understand wild aren't trading Bonino for a lesser prospect much less winger wild don't need
    Jan 20 at 5:17
    #27
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 870
    Likes: 690
    Quoting: Richard88
    I wonder if Guerin will be wary about facing Colorado in round 1 of the playoffs, and thus avoids trading Bonino to Colorado.


    I can assure you.

    Guerin doesn't care, not for this year anyway. His eyes are firmly affixed to reshaping the team into a contender after the expansion draft.
    Richard88, CowSaysMoo, TanSor and 2 others liked this.
    Jan 20 at 5:17
    #28
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 5,250
    Likes: 2,999
    Quoting: Caerii

    It's completely dependent on what Guerin is looking for. It's possible if he likes those players, but it's more likely he'd rather just pick his own player in the draft. Since Guerin isn't here and I am, I don't see why we would have any interest in any of them. With the 2nd, there's a higher chance you can actually get a player better than Bonino is.


    Agreed. I think value wise that package would be fair but of course it depends on which players Guerin likes. If he doesnt want to wait for a 2023 2nd (which is completely understandable) and doesnt like any of the Avs prospects then the deal is dead in the water. A 1st is not going to be involved
    Richard88, CowSaysMoo, TanSor and 1 other person liked this.
    Jan 20 at 5:18
    #29
    Joined: Apr 2020
    Posts: 6,365
    Likes: 2,725
    Quoting: Caerii
    You mean when you were proposing mid round picks for him and the Wild gave up a conditional 7th so they could flip him at the deadline for more?




    It's completely dependent on what Guerin is looking for. It's possible if he likes those players, but it's more likely he'd rather just pick his own player in the draft. Since Guerin isn't here and I am, I don't see why we would have any interest in any of them. With the 2nd, there's a higher chance you can actually get a player better than Bonino is.



    Sure, but as stated above, it depends on how Guerin feels about those players. How many of them would you take over a 2nd round pick right now?


    Who were you referring to in the bit in bold btw? Which player(s) do you think Avs could get with a 2nd that would be a better 3C than Bonino?
    Jan 20 at 5:20
    #30
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 1,496
    Likes: 790
    Quoting: Richard88
    The benefit of receiving young players/prospects instead of picks is that you've had the opportunity to see them in their D+1 or D+2 or later years, thus reducing the risk of the asset/player/pick busting. Guerin will likely also want for the rebuild to be quick, and waiting 3-4 years to see if a prospect turns out might not be as appealing as getting an NHL ready prospect who can jump into the lineup to replace Bonino.


    The Wild aren't trying to replace Bonino with Jost or Bowers. He's a 3C playing in the 1C role. We actually have plenty of bottom six players. Again, maybe Guerin likes something about Jost, Bowers or Helleson that I don't, but the value of a 2nd round pick is you have dozens of guys to choose from, and you can get one you like, rather than whatever Colorado has sitting about.

    How many of those guys would you take over a 2nd round pick right now?
    Jan 20 at 5:22
    #31
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 1,496
    Likes: 790
    Quoting: Richard88
    Who were you referring to in the bit in bold btw? Which player(s) do you think Avs could get with a 2nd that would be a better 3C than Bonino?


    The *Wild* could use a 2nd round pick to pick a prospect that could be a better player than Bonino is, down the road.
    Richard88 liked this.
    Jan 20 at 5:22
    #32
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 506
    Likes: 298
    Quoting: Richard88
    The benefit of receiving young players/prospects instead of picks is that you've had the opportunity to see them in their D+1 or D+2 or later years, thus reducing the risk of the asset/player/pick busting. Guerin will likely also want for the rebuild to be quick, and waiting 3-4 years to see if a prospect turns out might not be as appealing as getting an NHL ready prospect who can jump into the lineup to replace Bonino.


    Everything you have said in this thread is gold. It’s too bad we aren’t the GMs of our respective favorite teams so a deal could get done.
    Richard88, moli92, TanSor and 2 others liked this.
    Jan 20 at 5:26
    #33
    Joined: Apr 2020
    Posts: 6,365
    Likes: 2,725
    Quoting: Caerii
    The *Wild* could use a 2nd round pick to pick a prospect that could be a better player than Bonino is, down the road.


    Ah gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.
    Jan 20 at 5:26
    #34
    Joined: Apr 2020
    Posts: 6,365
    Likes: 2,725
    Quoting: CowSaysMoo
    Everything you have said in this thread is gold. It’s too bad we aren’t the GMs of our respective favorite teams so a deal could get done.


    smile
    CowSaysMoo liked this.
    Jan 20 at 5:27
    #35
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 1,496
    Likes: 790
    Quoting: CowSaysMoo
    Everything you have said in this thread is gold. It’s too bad we aren’t the GMs of our respective favorite teams so a deal could get done.


    Just out of curiosity, have you watched much of Ranta at the U? Because if you're looking at stat lines, look no further than Jack McBain, who, on paper, looks like he's having a breakout year on a good team with 8 points in 10 games, but in reality, is very likely to never even have an NHL career. Similar career stats as well. Would you take McBain right now over a 2nd because of his stat line?
    Jan 20 at 5:29
    #36
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 5,250
    Likes: 2,999
    Quoting: Caerii
    The Wild aren't trying to replace Bonino with Jost or Bowers. He's a 3C playing in the 1C role. We actually have plenty of bottom six players. Again, maybe Guerin likes something about Jost, Bowers or Helleson that I don't, but the value of a 2nd round pick is you have dozens of guys to choose from, and you can get one you like, rather than whatever Colorado has sitting about.

    How many of those guys would you take over a 2nd round pick right now?


    Depends on how early/late the 2nd round pick is. If were comparing to an average mid 2nd rounder I would take Jost, Bowers, and Helleson over the pick, but I guess it depends on your teams situation (win now vs win later) and which positions youre looking for. Also depends on whos available in the draft tbh. I dont know enough about the 2021 class to know how deep it is outside of the 1st round so its hard to compare values
    Richard88, RazWild, TanSor and 2 others liked this.
    Jan 20 at 5:33
    #37
    Joined: Apr 2020
    Posts: 6,365
    Likes: 2,725
    Quoting: Caerii
    The Wild aren't trying to replace Bonino with Jost or Bowers. He's a 3C playing in the 1C role. We actually have plenty of bottom six players. Again, maybe Guerin likes something about Jost, Bowers or Helleson that I don't, but the value of a 2nd round pick is you have dozens of guys to choose from, and you can get one you like, rather than whatever Colorado has sitting about.

    How many of those guys would you take over a 2nd round pick right now?


    Bowers and Helleson have both developed really well since being drafted in the late 1st and 47th respectively. I wouldn't trade either of them for a 2nd right now.

    Bowers is taking his time but he's taking strides and is looking good and will get his opportunities with this Avs team once there are injuries or roster spots opening up in the offseason. He's seen as the future 3C on this roster in a couple of years if not sooner.

    Helleson has had an awesome improvement, and partnered Sanderson as USA's top shutdown pair in winning gold at the WJC. He's the perfect Erik Johnson replacement.

    As for Jost, I'd rather have him than a 2nd rounder as more than 50% of the time a 2nd doesn't amount to much (especially with our drafting lol). He's still a cheap and versatile forward with good defensive play who doesn't hurt the team.

    A 2nd round pick in general doesn't really do much for this roster right now. If you asked me if I'd rather have Bonino or Jost though that would be a different discussion, because Bonino would be a perfect fit in our biggest weakness.
    RazWild, CowSaysMoo and moli92 liked this.
    Jan 20 at 5:37
    #38
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 506
    Likes: 298
    Quoting: Caerii
    Just out of curiosity, have you watched much of Ranta at the U? Because if you're looking at stat lines, look no further than Jack McBain, who, on paper, looks like he's having a breakout year on a good team with 8 points in 10 games, but in reality, is very likely to never even have an NHL career. Similar career stats as well. Would you take McBain right now over a 2nd because of his stat line?


    Jack McBain isn’t relevant to this conversation because Ranta and McBain are two different players playing two different positions, but to answer your questions, I have watched a lot of Gopher hockey this year and I would take McBain over a 2nd because he is closer to playing pro. This Wild team cannot rebuild due to the contracts on the books, and Sampo Ranta has looked ready for pro hockey this year.
    Richard88 liked this.
    Jan 20 at 5:38
    #39
    Joined: Jun 2017
    Posts: 7,139
    Likes: 5,228
    Quoting: Richard88
    I wonder if Guerin will be wary about facing Colorado in round 1 of the playoffs, and thus avoids trading Bonino to Colorado.


    Quoting: PinkWhitney
    Minnesota isn't trading one of their centers when they don't have a replacement. They will likely make the playoffs as a wild card team. West is weak with little competition.

    What exactly are you giving up for Bonino 2M retained because I know you don't think you're getting him for a bag of pucks...


    I'd imagine making a Bonino trade would be contingent on us being out of the playoff race so we a) don't gut our center core before making a run and b) don't trade him to a team we'd likely face in the first round. Yes, the west is weak, but outside of Kaprizov, Fiala, and arguably Greenway we haven't had many bright spots offensively up front. Our blue line is fantastic and Talbot has been really good for us but I envision a lot of scoring issues until we get a 1C and Zucc hopefully proves last year was a fluke.
    CowSaysMoo, moli92, RazWild and 3 others liked this.
    Jan 20 at 6:14
    #40
    Joined: Apr 2020
    Posts: 6,365
    Likes: 2,725
    Quoting: TanSor
    I'd imagine making a Bonino trade would be contingent on us being out of the playoff race so we a) don't gut our center core before making a run and b) don't trade him to a team we'd likely face in the first round. Yes, the west is weak, but outside of Kaprizov, Fiala, and arguably Greenway we haven't had many bright spots offensively up front. Our blue line is fantastic and Talbot has been really good for us but I envision a lot of scoring issues until we get a 1C and Zucc hopefully proves last year was a fluke.


    If Guerin is smart he'll unload his rentals including Bonino at the deadline regardless of whether or not they're close to the playoffs. Even if they squeeze in as the wild card they're certainly not going to come out of a divisional bracket featuring 3 of the 7 highest ranked cup favourites (Avs, Blues, Vegas), so they're better off just writing the season off and ensuring that they do the rebuild properly.
    jnowariak, TanSor, RazWild and 2 others liked this.
    Jan 20 at 6:18
    #41
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 1,161
    Likes: 704
    Quoting: Richard88
    I wonder if Guerin will be wary about facing Colorado in round 1 of the playoffs, and thus avoids trading Bonino to Colorado.


    I don’t think that factors in at all. MIN knows they aren’t contenders and holding on to a guy that could bring back something for the next couple years is far more important. Additionally, we’ve got plenty of 3rd line Cs. Losing one should t impact things that much.
    Richard88, CowSaysMoo and OutCold13 liked this.
    Jan 20 at 6:26
    #42
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 1,161
    Likes: 704
    Quoting: TanSor
    I'd imagine making a Bonino trade would be contingent on us being out of the playoff race so we a) don't gut our center core before making a run and b) don't trade him to a team we'd likely face in the first round. Yes, the west is weak, but outside of Kaprizov, Fiala, and arguably Greenway we haven't had many bright spots offensively up front. Our blue line is fantastic and Talbot has been really good for us but I envision a lot of scoring issues until we get a 1C and Zucc hopefully proves last year was a fluke.


    Not at all. If we move Bonino, either we get a young guy like Jost and throw him the top 6, or hell just throw Khovanov there. There is literally nothing to lose so long as they are favored to make the playoffs in 21-22 and are set up to keep getting better.
    Jan 20 at 6:32
    #43
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 1,161
    Likes: 704
    Quoting: moli92
    Depends on how early/late the 2nd round pick is. If were comparing to an average mid 2nd rounder I would take Jost, Bowers, and Helleson over the pick, but I guess it depends on your teams situation (win now vs win later) and which positions youre looking for. Also depends on whos available in the draft tbh. I dont know enough about the 2021 class to know how deep it is outside of the 1st round so its hard to compare values


    I think anybody trading for picks with COL should expect the 32nd pick in that round and I would bet COL values them the same. I disagree with you that a 1st is off the table here but this draft is the one to throw a late 1st to outbid somebody. The class sounds like it’s pretty even in the top half of the 1st round but given the lack of play and change on scouting, a late first could be equivalent to an early 3rd with all the uncertainty. Chatting with you Avs fans makes me think a prospect and later pick makes a lot of sense for MIN.

    A B prospect can be packaged for something bigger and a 3rd is usually the cost of moving up a couple places in the mid 1st round if the Wild really want to make sure they get their guy in the draft. I like the idea of Jost but he puts us in an ED bind if we hold on to Dumba, which all things point to.
    RazWild liked this.
    Jan 20 at 7:01
    #44
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 870
    Likes: 690
    Quoting: jnowariak
    I think anybody trading for picks with COL should expect the 32nd pick in that round and I would bet COL values them the same. I disagree with you that a 1st is off the table here but this draft is the one to throw a late 1st to outbid somebody. The class sounds like it’s pretty even in the top half of the 1st round but given the lack of play and change on scouting, a late first could be equivalent to an early 3rd with all the uncertainty. Chatting with you Avs fans makes me think a prospect and later pick makes a lot of sense for MIN.

    A B prospect can be packaged for something bigger and a 3rd is usually the cost of moving up a couple places in the mid 1st round if the Wild really want to make sure they get their guy in the draft. I like the idea of Jost but he puts us in an ED bind if we hold on to Dumba, which all things point to.


    I've been thinking about that since we last talked about it, and honestly I think it makes no difference if we do it. If anything, it might just be the smart move and give us better insulation and protection from the expansion draft. At the end of the day, you still go the 4x4-1 route and protect both Dumba and Eriksson-Ek.

    That would leave both Greenway and Jost exposed, plus Soucy on defense. It forces Seattle to make a hard choice, if they want a forward, who do they then take. Greenway? Jost? If they take Jost, we then still have both Greenway and Soucy, and Greenway has looked like a completely different player this year so far. If they do take Greenway, then Jost can slot into that spot in the lineup and is a solid player defensively and we don't lose too much on that 3rd line.

    Foligno is an added wrinkle, but Guerin has already stated he fully intends to keep him, even if it means making a deal with Seattle because of it. So we're already in unknown territory with a fair degree of uncertainty already. Adding someone like Jost may seem counter-productive, but could give us the added flexibility we actually need.

    It's food for thought, anyway.
    jnowariak and OutCold13 liked this.
    Jan 20 at 7:42
    #45
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 1,161
    Likes: 704
    Quoting: RazWild
    I've been thinking about that since we last talked about it, and honestly I think it makes no difference if we do it. If anything, it might just be the smart move and give us better insulation and protection from the expansion draft. At the end of the day, you still go the 4x4-1 route and protect both Dumba and Eriksson-Ek.

    That would leave both Greenway and Jost exposed, plus Soucy on defense. It forces Seattle to make a hard choice, if they want a forward, who do they then take. Greenway? Jost? If they take Jost, we then still have both Greenway and Soucy, and Greenway has looked like a completely different player this year so far. If they do take Greenway, then Jost can slot into that spot in the lineup and is a solid player defensively and we don't lose too much on that 3rd line.

    Foligno is an added wrinkle, but Guerin has already stated he fully intends to keep him, even if it means making a deal with Seattle because of it. So we're already in unknown territory with a fair degree of uncertainty already. Adding someone like Jost may seem counter-productive, but could give us the added flexibility we actually need.

    It's food for thought, anyway.


    So for context if this deal goes through, we traded Kunin for a 2nd, 2 3rds and maintain the 3rd line with a young skilled forward. I don’t hate that return, assets and protection.

    As for Foligno, I listened to a podcast with Russo today that hints at a good relationship with Newport (who reps Foligno, Zuccarello, Parise, Dumba, and Fiala) could mean Zuccarello is going to waive for the ED, especially if they can provide assurances to all those players about staying in MN. Side note, the players in that group bode well for Fiala’s negotiation.
    Jan 20 at 10:34
    #46
    Joined: Dec 2020
    Posts: 244
    Likes: 51
    Quoting: Richard88
    If Guerin is smart he'll unload his rentals including Bonino at the deadline regardless of whether or not they're close to the playoffs. Even if they squeeze in as the wild card they're certainly not going to come out of a divisional bracket featuring 3 of the 7 highest ranked cup favourites (Avs, Blues, Vegas), so they're better off just writing the season off and ensuring that they do the rebuild properly.


    Minnesota isn't rebuilding, not with contract given to Jared spurgeon, Jonas Brodin, Marcus Foligno, & Fiala, Kaprizov getting new contract after this season.

    Kaprizov needs new contract, & Guerin is dead on set to make playoff to convince Kaprizov that the wild aren't a team that doesn't want to win. So wild of in playoffs hunt, Guerin will add to convince Kaprizov to sign long term Contract
    Jan 21 at 8:47
    #47
    Joined: Apr 2020
    Posts: 6,365
    Likes: 2,725
    Quoting: Wildnochance
    Minnesota isn't rebuilding, not with contract given to Jared spurgeon, Jonas Brodin, Marcus Foligno, & Fiala, Kaprizov getting new contract after this season.

    Kaprizov needs new contract, & Guerin is dead on set to make playoff to convince Kaprizov that the wild aren't a team that doesn't want to win. So wild of in playoffs hunt, Guerin will add to convince Kaprizov to sign long term Contract


    That sort of strategy is what has kept Minnesota in perpetual mediocrity for 20 years. They play a defensive system that allows them to perform at a higher level than the sum of their parts, and never allow their team to bottom out in order to build a talent base of high end players. It's a shame for that fanbase.

    That said, when you have Suter and Parise's contracts on the books, along with other bad ones like Zuccarello, it's tricky to commit to a full rebuild.
     
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