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Who is better than Nurse

Created by: zinner21
Team: 2020-21 Custom Team
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 4, 2021
Published: Feb. 5, 2021
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Heard a radio segment on TSN 1260 yesterday and there was a debate on whether Nurse is close to becoming a number 1 defenseman and a top 15 Dman in the league. Jason Gregor said yes while Jason Strudwick said no. I agree with Strudwick as I think all the guys listed here are better and I would trade Nurse for any day (except a handful of the older guys as it wouldn't fit with Edmonton's timeline). This puts Nurse at the lower end of the Top 30. The only ones I wouldnt trade Nurse for are probably Weber (age and contract), and probably Karlsson and Doughty just based on their contracts which would be near impossible to fit under the cap. Thoughts? Is Nurse close to being a number 1? I personally think his ceiling is a good 2 way number 2 D.
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Feb. 5, 2021 at 11:53 a.m.
#26
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Quoting: faulkmydzingel
Well put!


100% agree



And yes I would disagree with this. Brodie is stability for Rielly. Holl and Muzzin are without question one of the best pairings in the North Division.


so many oilers fans are butthurt because they were the favourite in the north and cried when people didnt think otherwise
Feb. 5, 2021 at 11:53 a.m.
#27
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Zinner21
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Quoting: vr1995
holls actually been better than nurse this year, and brodie doesnt bring the offence but is much better than nurse defensively


Quoting: EsoYeezus69
He wouldn't replace Olekisak, for one reason and that reason is that he wouldn't fit well with Heiskanen. Nurse is better than Oleksiak offensively no doubt, but he wouldn't mech well with Heiskanen, instead of Heiskanen leading the offense he would have to stay back more. Oleksiak and Heiskanen have perfect chemistry together Heiskanen is a two-way dman and Oleksiak is a defensive dman, Nurse is an offensive dman. Nurse would maybe be the 4th best man in Dallas, but not in the top 4.


I mean everyone could make an argument based on things like who meshes well with who and what is a good fit. I don't get the notion that Nurse is an purely an offensive defenseman. He's not. Although since the start of 17-18 he's 13th in EV scoring among Dmen. But he's really taken a step this season in being positionally sound, and a lot of that has to do with maturity and experience. He's not making some of the questionable plays that he has in the past.
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Feb. 5, 2021 at 11:56 a.m.
#28
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Zinner21
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Quoting: vr1995
so many oilers fans are butthurt because they were the favourite in the north and cried when people didnt think otherwise


Huh? They were never the favorite. What Oilers fans were saying was they had the highest points percentage among Canadian teams last season and people were picking them be one of the worst teams in the North.
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Feb. 5, 2021 at 11:59 a.m.
#29
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Quoting: zinner21
Huh? They were never the favorite. What Oilers fans were saying was they had the highest points percentage among Canadian teams last season and people were picking them be one of the worst teams in the North.


Maybe not you, but Ive seen multiple on this site saying they were gonna come first
Feb. 5, 2021 at 12:02 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: zinner21
I mean everyone could make an argument based on things like who meshes well with who and what is a good fit. I don't get the notion that Nurse is an purely an offensive defenseman. He's not. Although since the start of 17-18 he's 13th in EV scoring among Dmen. But he's really taken a step this season in being positionally sound, and a lot of that has to do with maturity and experience. He's not making some of the questionable plays that he has in the past.


I can get behind him taking a step forward this year. But is that more due to not having anyone around him to do this? Similar to Rasmus Ristolainen? Risto is a solid dman (not great)... just never had anyone to support in his own end. What I will say is that on any other team, Nurse and Larsson would be an excellent 2nd pairing.
Feb. 5, 2021 at 12:04 p.m.
#31
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Zinner21
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Quoting: vr1995
Maybe not you, but Ive seen multiple on this site saying they were gonna come first


Well it was never realistic. I think a lot of fans expected them to be maybe top 2 or 3. They did improve in the offseason but I think many didn't realize the impact Kelfbom had on this team. That mightve had to do with Barrie coming in, and Barrie has actually looked really good the last few games. But we will see! It's still early. I think they will make the playoffs, maybe as the 3 seed but likely as the 4th.
Feb. 5, 2021 at 12:20 p.m.
#32
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At 5v5 scoring, Nurse is a top defenseman.

2017-18: 24 (20th in the NHL)
2018-19: 27 (15th)
2019-20: 26 (7th)
2020-21: 4 (15th)

This year he's taken a distinctive step forward defensively and in his decision making both with and without the puck - and it shows. Here are the 26 defensemen listed above and their GF% rel and xGF% rel so far this year:

Slavin: +37.78 / +10.88
Makar: +32.22 / +20.46
Chabot: +25.88 / +6.91
Hamilton: +20.00 / -0.10
Pulock: +18.55 / +16.32
Nurse: +17.09 / +6.66
Ekman-Larsson: +6.67 / -10.28
Theodore: +5.45 / +7.03
Burns: +3.57 / -1.33
Heiskanen: +1.21 / +3.16
Doughty: +0.76 / +6.30
Klingberg: 0.00 / -3.22
McAvoy: -0.39 / +8.95
Provorov: -1.21 / -3.19
Weber: -1.23 / +6.68
Pietrangelo: -5.45 / -14.17
Ekblad: -5.56 / +4.23
Karlsson: -6.39 / -17.84
Parayko: -11.57 / -8.96
Carlson: -13.92 / -4.78
Hughes: -17.02 / -9.85
Werenski: -17.14 / -2.70
Jones: -18.75 / -14.95
Ellis: -20.78 / +1.95
Morrissey: -22.65 / -3.49
Hedman: -23.23 / -5.40
Josi: -32.39 / +7.40

Nurse is 6th in GF% rel and 9th in xGF rel. Tiny sample size I know, but it does give some indication how well he's been playing this year.
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Feb. 5, 2021 at 12:21 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: HockeyDad81
You totally left out the Wild D. Spurg and Suter are both better than nurse. You can even make the argument that Brodin is also.


Brodin is better than Suter and Spurgeon...
Feb. 5, 2021 at 12:23 p.m.
#34
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Quoting: zinner21
Who?


Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie and Holl are or have been better this season
Feb. 5, 2021 at 12:24 p.m.
#35
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Quoting: vr1995
so many oilers fans are butthurt because they were the favourite in the north and cried when people didnt think otherwise


The Oilers were never the favorite
Feb. 5, 2021 at 12:26 p.m.
#36
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Quoting: CD282
At 5v5 scoring, Nurse is a top defenseman.

2017-18: 24 (20th in the NHL)
2018-19: 27 (15th)
2019-20: 26 (7th)
2020-21: 4 (15th)

This year he's taken a distinctive step forward defensively and in his decision making both with and without the puck - and it shows. Here are the 26 defensemen listed above and their GF% rel and xGF% rel so far this year:

Slavin: +37.78 / +10.88
Makar: +32.22 / +20.46
Chabot: +25.88 / +6.91
Hamilton: +20.00 / -0.10
Pulock: +18.55 / +16.32
Nurse: +17.09 / +6.66
Ekman-Larsson: +6.67 / -10.28
Theodore: +5.45 / +7.03
Burns: +3.57 / -1.33
Heiskanen: +1.21 / +3.16
Doughty: +0.76 / +6.30
Klingberg: 0.00 / -3.22
McAvoy: -0.39 / +8.95
Provorov: -1.21 / -3.19
Weber: -1.23 / +6.68
Pietrangelo: -5.45 / -14.17
Ekblad: -5.56 / +4.23
Karlsson: -6.39 / -17.84
Parayko: -11.57 / -8.96
Carlson: -13.92 / -4.78
Hughes: -17.02 / -9.85
Werenski: -17.14 / -2.70
Jones: -18.75 / -14.95
Ellis: -20.78 / +1.95
Morrissey: -22.65 / -3.49
Hedman: -23.23 / -5.40
Josi: -32.39 / +7.40

Nurse is 6th in GF% rel and 9th in xGF rel. Tiny sample size I know, but it does give some indication how well he's been playing this year.


This gives Advance stats a bad name, using whatever numbers you can to force a narrative. Nurse along with all the Oilers get caved in when McDavid isn't on the ice. He's a 2nd pair defenceman on most teams and 3rd on some.
Feb. 5, 2021 at 1:27 p.m.
#37
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
The Oilers were never the favorite


meant to say they thought they were the favorite
Feb. 5, 2021 at 1:28 p.m.
#38
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
This gives Advance stats a bad name, using whatever numbers you can to force a narrative. Nurse along with all the Oilers get caved in when McDavid isn't on the ice. He's a 2nd pair defenceman on most teams and 3rd on some.


does it all the time, nitpicks the stats that improve his argument
Feb. 5, 2021 at 2:25 p.m.
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Quoting: vr1995
does it all the time, nitpicks the stats that improve his argument


"Turris is a career .56 ppg player #elite3C" how's that working out for him lol
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Feb. 5, 2021 at 2:30 p.m.
#40
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Quoting: CD282
At 5v5 scoring, Nurse is a top defenseman.

2017-18: 24 (20th in the NHL)
2018-19: 27 (15th)
2019-20: 26 (7th)
2020-21: 4 (15th)

This year he's taken a distinctive step forward defensively and in his decision making both with and without the puck - and it shows. Here are the 26 defensemen listed above and their GF% rel and xGF% rel so far this year:

Slavin: +37.78 / +10.88
Makar: +32.22 / +20.46
Chabot: +25.88 / +6.91
Hamilton: +20.00 / -0.10
Pulock: +18.55 / +16.32
Nurse: +17.09 / +6.66
Ekman-Larsson: +6.67 / -10.28
Theodore: +5.45 / +7.03
Burns: +3.57 / -1.33
Heiskanen: +1.21 / +3.16
Doughty: +0.76 / +6.30
Klingberg: 0.00 / -3.22
McAvoy: -0.39 / +8.95
Provorov: -1.21 / -3.19
Weber: -1.23 / +6.68
Pietrangelo: -5.45 / -14.17
Ekblad: -5.56 / +4.23
Karlsson: -6.39 / -17.84
Parayko: -11.57 / -8.96
Carlson: -13.92 / -4.78
Hughes: -17.02 / -9.85
Werenski: -17.14 / -2.70
Jones: -18.75 / -14.95
Ellis: -20.78 / +1.95
Morrissey: -22.65 / -3.49
Hedman: -23.23 / -5.40
Josi: -32.39 / +7.40

Nurse is 6th in GF% rel and 9th in xGF rel. Tiny sample size I know, but it does give some indication how well he's been playing this year.[/quote

What D in the league is measure on just 5v5 stats? Does he do PP does he do PK. His stats are terrible when your captain is off the ice. Thats like me making the argument that since Brodin is #1 defensive D in the league that makes him the best in the NHL.
Feb. 5, 2021 at 2:31 p.m.
#41
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
This gives Advance stats a bad name, using whatever numbers you can to force a narrative. Nurse along with all the Oilers get caved in when McDavid isn't on the ice. He's a 2nd pair defenceman on most teams and 3rd on some.


You’ll use expected goals when it fits your narrative (proving other teams/players are bad) but you ignore them and say “this gives advanced stats a bad name” when someone else uses the metric to prove a point.
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Feb. 5, 2021 at 2:40 p.m.
#42
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Quoting: HockeyDad81
What D in the league is measure on just 5v5 stats? Does he do PP does he do PK. His stats are terrible when your captain is off the ice. Thats like me making the argument that since Brodin is #1 defensive D in the league that makes him the best in the NHL.


5v5 is like, 75% of the game and provides insight on a standardized playing level. Being good at 5v5 is pretty important for hockey.
Feb. 5, 2021 at 2:50 p.m.
#43
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Quoting: mondo
5v5 is like, 75% of the game and provides insight on a standardized playing level. Being good at 5v5 is pretty important for hockey.


Makes sense to ignore all the other stats then. Regardless he would be the 4th or 5th best D on the wild.
Feb. 5, 2021 at 2:55 p.m.
#44
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
This gives Advance stats a bad name, using whatever numbers you can to force a narrative. Nurse along with all the Oilers get caved in when McDavid isn't on the ice. He's a 2nd pair defenceman on most teams and 3rd on some.


McDavid is the only player this applies to for him.

nurseda95
Feb. 5, 2021 at 3:00 p.m.
#45
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Quoting: HockeyDad81
Makes sense to ignore all the other stats then. Regardless he would be the 4th or 5th best D on the wild.


Maybe he'll include all the powerplay and penalty kill stats next time to satisfy your cynicism.
Feb. 5, 2021 at 3:17 p.m.
#46
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Quoting: HockeyDad81


Have you seen McDavid's number without Nurse? Also, 100% of the names listed above also play with their team's best offensive forwards, so that's not a knock on Nurse. And yes, Nurse plays PK heavily and is on the Oilers #2 PP.
Feb. 5, 2021 at 3:24 p.m.
#47
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Quoting: Isles777
You’ll use expected goals when it fits your narrative (proving other teams/players are bad) but you ignore them and say “this gives advanced stats a bad name” when someone else uses the metric to prove a point.


Expected goals is far more reliable than what this guy's uses and he will ignore anything that hurts his case and joins stats that don't correlate to make himself sound right. The fact of the matter is, Edmonton isn't good and terrible defensively. The only two players who tilt the ice in their favor is McDavid and sometimes Draisaitl.
Feb. 5, 2021 at 3:39 p.m.
#48
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Expected goals is far more reliable than what this guy's uses and he will ignore anything that hurts his case and joins stats that don't correlate to make himself sound right. The fact of the matter is, Edmonton isn't good and terrible defensively. The only two players who tilt the ice in their favor is McDavid and sometimes Draisaitl.


Ethan bear tilts the ice in their favor. He’s been elite play driver this season and solid defensively as well. Puljujarvi has been a perfect compliment to mcdavid and even without him he’s been solid.

The bottom 6 is the problem.
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Feb. 5, 2021 at 3:55 p.m.
#49
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Petry is better
It's almost as though EDM could really use a guy like that awesome face
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Feb. 5, 2021 at 5:51 p.m.
#50
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Quoting: Isles777
Ethan bear tilts the ice in their favor. He’s been elite play driver this season and solid defensively as well. Puljujarvi has been a perfect compliment to mcdavid and even without him he’s been solid.

The bottom 6 is the problem.


Huge problem and there have been games where their second line gets dominated as well. Nylander, Kerfoot and Vesey held Draisaitl's line to zero scoring chances and zero shots one game. Sure it was a bad game and an outlier but McDavid is everything to that team, without him they wouldn't be much better than Ottawa, with him they are going to be hard-pressed to make the playoffs. The team needs major changes and it will take a while to fix this mess. Bear is a good player though, no argument there.
 
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