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Holland to Arizona - confirmed by John Chayka

Created by: Watty1
Team: 2016-17 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 9, 2016
Published: Dec. 9, 2016
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Just coming in...Holland to Arizona
Trades
TOR
    Conditional draft pick
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    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2017
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    2018
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    2019
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    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    26$73,000,000$70,649,500$512,000$5,885,000$2,350,500
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    $5,250,000$5,250,000
    LW, RW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    $4,500,000$4,500,000
    C
    UFA - 6
    $5,300,000$5,300,000
    RW
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    $4,250,000$4,250,000
    LW, RW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    $4,200,000$4,200,000
    C, RW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    $736,666$736,666 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
    RW
    UFA - 2
    $2,500,000$2,500,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 4
    $2,950,000$2,950,000
    RW, LW, C
    UFA - 2
    $686,667$686,667 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    $612,500$612,500
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    $675,000$675,000
    RW, C
    UFA - 1
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,850,000$3M)
    C
    UFA - 3
    $900,000$900,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    RW
    UFA - 2
    $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    RW
    UFA - 3
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    $4,050,000$4,050,000
    LD
    UFA - 3
    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    LD
    UFA - 6
    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    G
    UFA - 5
    $1,250,000$1,250,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    $3,000,000$3,000,000
    RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    $655,000$655,000 (Performance Bonus$120,000$120K)
    G
    UFA - 1
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    RD
    UFA - 1
    $2,250,000$2,250,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    $1,200,000$1,200,000
    LD
    UFA - 1
    $750,000$750,000
    RD
    UFA - 2
    $600,000$600,000
    RD
    UFA - 1

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    Dec. 9, 2016 at 3:03 p.m.
    #1
    leafs1967again
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    Wow ARI got ripped.
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 3:11 p.m.
    #2
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    Quoting: leafs1967again
    Wow ARI got ripped.


    That's impossible to know. Its a conditional draft pick. Could end up being a 7th. Which is no sweat off anyone's back.
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 3:21 p.m.
    #3
    leafs1967again
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    Quoting: F50marco
    Quoting: leafs1967again
    Wow ARI got ripped.


    That's impossible to know. Its a conditional draft pick. Could end up being a 7th. Which is no sweat off anyone's back.


    He is awful. A 7th to pay someone over $1m is awful.
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 3:24 p.m.
    #4
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    Quoting: leafs1967again
    Quoting: F50marco


    That's impossible to know. Its a conditional draft pick. Could end up being a 7th. Which is no sweat off anyone's back.


    He is awful. A 7th to pay someone over $1m is awful.


    Hey your preaching to choir here. I have no affinity for this guy but a 7th rounder for a player capable of playing some sort of role is by no means awful. 1.3m is def too much but its the same as Dustin Brown 5.8M too much. Holland can be buried in the AHL and will only cost you about 300K on your cap. Not too much of nuisance there.
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 3:39 p.m.
    #5
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    Quoting: F50marco
    Quoting: leafs1967again


    He is awful. A 7th to pay someone over $1m is awful.


    Hey your preaching to choir here. I have no affinity for this guy but a 7th rounder for a player capable of playing some sort of role is by no means awful. 1.3m is def too much but its the same as Dustin Brown 5.8M too much. Holland can be buried in the AHL and will only cost you about 300K on your cap. Not too much of nuisance there.


    Agreed, I'm not going to give an opinion on Holland this year as he hasn't played at all, BUT he did look like he could have potential to be a 3rd line forward, or at least 4th line material, I believe he was on pace for around 35 points last year (I could be wrong) which is pretty good. I hope he does well and can make something of himself, but more importantly I hope the leafs got a decent pick lol
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 3:59 p.m.
    #6
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    Watty1
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    Toronto Maple Leafs

    Official Trade:

    Conditional 2018 6th Rd Pick

    Arizona Coyotes

    Peter Holland
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 4:03 p.m.
    #7
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    Quoting: Watty1
    Toronto Maple Leafs

    Official Trade:

    Conditional 2018 6th Rd Pick

    Arizona Coyotes

    Peter Holland


    Hate to say I told you so Watty but I will anyway Sticking Out Tongue

    In no way was Holland fetching the return you were proclaiming he might. (In a previous thread)
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 4:17 p.m.
    #8
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    Watty1
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    Quoting: F50marco
    Quoting: Watty1
    Toronto Maple Leafs

    Official Trade:

    Conditional 2018 6th Rd Pick

    Arizona Coyotes

    Peter Holland


    Hate to say I told you so Watty but I will anyway Sticking Out Tongue

    In no way was Holland fetching the return you were proclaiming he might. (In a previous thread)
    Well to be honest, having barely watched him play, I didn't know he was as bad as he was.
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 4:23 p.m.
    #9
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    Quoting: Watty1
    Quoting: F50marco


    Hate to say I told you so Watty but I will anyway Sticking Out Tongue

    In no way was Holland fetching the return you were proclaiming he might. (In a previous thread)
    Well to be honest, having barely watched him play, I didn't know he was as bad as he was.


    I figured because you were like one of the only guys "sort of" defending him. Looking at his point production you'd think better of him but if that were the case, so would Babcock. He's a 3rd/4th liner on a bad team. On a capable team, he's a max a 13th forward 4th liner.
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 5:30 p.m.
    #10
    VeryLeafy
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    I'll defend holland. He is a good player (third line Center) with soft hands but that's not the only thing that was soft. He's better then smith and Martin. He deserved a chance to play but typical people chirp him because he didn't produce playing 4th line with AHL skill players. I'm glad for him he gets to move on but it was bad asset management no playing him then dumping him. Oh well. Wish him all the best.
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 6:24 p.m.
    #11
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    Watty1
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    Quoting: MattyMadden28
    I'll defend holland. He is a good player (third line Center) with soft hands but that's not the only thing that was soft. He's better then smith and Martin. He deserved a chance to play but typical people chirp him because he didn't produce playing 4th line with AHL skill players. I'm glad for him he gets to move on but it was bad asset management no playing him then dumping him. Oh well. Wish him all the best.
    I think Holland is the classic case of Top 6 or bust. Has some skill but he does nothing for you in your bottom 6. He needs to play with skilled guys or he ineffective. These are the guys that tend to struggle and then puzzle people why they aren't playing better than they are. He's not good enough to be a consistent top 6 forward/centre but he is of no value as a checker so there's no role for him I'm guessing. The Canucks had this same issue with Mason Raymond.
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 7:04 p.m.
    #12
    LongtimeLeafsufferer
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    Sorry guys, you missed the concept of the trade....Holland for a conditional pick. The Coyotes only send the pick if they resign Holland. No harm to Coyotes. Best wishes to Holland

    What do the Leafs get? Now they are down to 47 pro contracts. Looks like the Leafs are preparing to make trades by TDL to take on other teams "unnecessary cap players"

    Gee, Watty, it looks like you changed your mind. Your saying that it possible that a former # 1 pick can a bust or at least worth only a 6th rounder? Maybe Olesiak of Dallas is the same.
    Dec. 9, 2016 at 10:56 p.m.
    #13
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    Quoting: MattyMadden28
    I'll defend holland. He is a good player (third line Center) with soft hands but that's not the only thing that was soft. He's better then smith and Martin. He deserved a chance to play but typical people chirp him because he didn't produce playing 4th line with AHL skill players. I'm glad for him he gets to move on but it was bad asset management no playing him then dumping him. Oh well. Wish him all the best.


    Are you defending him for the sake of defending him Matty? I think its pretty established at this point. He's not that great a player. OK maybe we tend to go overboard like 1967's comment.

    But I'm not sure there is any valid points you can make that he is a "good" 3rd liner. He wasn't in Anaheim and he wasn't in Toronto. He's starting to run out of options. A no show in Arizona and stick a fork in him, he's done.
    Dec. 10, 2016 at 2:53 a.m.
    #14
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    Watty1
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    Quoting: palhal
    Sorry guys, you missed the concept of the trade....Holland for a conditional pick. The Coyotes only send the pick if they resign Holland. No harm to Coyotes. Best wishes to Holland

    What do the Leafs get? Now they are down to 47 pro contracts. Looks like the Leafs are preparing to make trades by TDL to take on other teams "unnecessary cap players"

    Gee, Watty, it looks like you changed your mind. Your saying that it possible that a former # 1 pick can a bust or at least worth only a 6th rounder? Maybe Olesiak of Dallas is the same.
    Well I'm not sure what you're trying to say because I can only understand legible english but I'll try to answer. 1. Oleksiak is defenceman and they come a higher premium then a forward. 2. Holland demanded a trade, so Arizona knows he wants out of Toronto and that they can't keep him, which drives his value down. 3rd: I believe he's mostly missed time due to injury 4. While he has only played 12 games, he has 3 goals and is a +1. Defencemen take longer to develop so while Holland at 25 is seen as in his prime, Oleksiak at 24 isn't (26-28 for defenceman). I think more teams will gamble more on Oleksiak than Holland. Unlike forwards, defencemen are in greater demand and are fine so long as they don't overplay their minutes. I'm guessing Holland is of no value on the bottom six because Babcock would use him in that role if he could and doesn't score enough to be in the top 6. I don't know much about Oleksiak, but if he doesn't go for a 2nd or 3rd, he'll go for another prospect. He is of more value to Dallas' roster than for a late round pick. Believe me, if Toronto wasn't loaded with centres Holland would still be with the Leafs, but why keep him if you have Kadri, Bozak & Matthews - Holland is redundant and without ample minutes, he can't show if he's worth it.

    You're right, it's his 3rd stop so he reminds me of Emerson Etem. Is it his last chance? Likely, but Arizona will give him the opportunity to show himself the way he didn't get to in Toronto. He had 25 & 27 Pts in 14-15 & 15-16, so I think he could end up being a steal for a 6th pick if he produces like that in Arizona. Also, keep in mind that Arizona won't want to give up too much because of the expansion draft. Should they lose Holland, trading a higher pick would be devastating. Toronto didn't have to trade him, but they made it public, which is why is value tanked. If he sucked so bad, then why not just waive him and let him be claimed? He's clearly worth something. Honestly, had Holland not demanded a trade publicly, I would have held on to him, played him in the AHL and recalled him if there was injury to sell him higher at the deadline. You don't need him and he didn't fit into Babcock's system, so you basically gave him away.

    Lastly, that Oleksiak trade is intended for the deadline when values always go up because teams get desperate. I mean really, what does Toronto have to lose? At what point do you start to say "screw picks, we're at stage now where we need players. Accelerate the rebuild." I can tell you you're not going to set your franchise back with a deal like this. You've been losing so long you're afraid to do anything. Defenceman aren't going to magically appear my friend. You gotta trade for them or be stuck with a fat FA contract that you'll regret signing 2 years in.

    All I'm saying is look around the league. Teams just don't give away young players with potential. Given Oleksiak's size, my guess is mobility is an issue for him. If that is the case, then he's not worth a 2nd pick because if you can't skate in today's NHL you don't succeed. Period. But, I don't know what because I don't watch him every day and if Dallas has more talented defencemen in Honka, Lindell and Johns, I can see why Oleksiak would be expendable. But certainly, Dallas is not just going to give him away. Take Derek Forbort for example. He took 3 years in the AHL before making the Kings as a full time player this season and he was drafted 1 year before and didn't play his first game until he was 23. Oleksiak was 20 when he debuted and may have been rushed too early.

    Sometimes a change of scenery is the best thing and for both Holland and Oleksiak, that could be the very thing to help get them going, especially if he's on a bad (or non-playoff team) that isn't trying to win, but develop (which Dallas isn't doing). We've seen it in the past. Is time running out? A little, yeah, but there is very little downside to getting someone like him.
    Dec. 10, 2016 at 2:55 a.m.
    #15
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    Watty1
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    Quoting: F50marco
    Quoting: MattyMadden28
    I'll defend holland. He is a good player (third line Center) with soft hands but that's not the only thing that was soft. He's better then smith and Martin. He deserved a chance to play but typical people chirp him because he didn't produce playing 4th line with AHL skill players. I'm glad for him he gets to move on but it was bad asset management no playing him then dumping him. Oh well. Wish him all the best.


    Are you defending him for the sake of defending him Matty? I think its pretty established at this point. He's not that great a player. OK maybe we tend to go overboard like 1967's comment.

    But I'm not sure there is any valid points you can make that he is a "good" 3rd liner. He wasn't in Anaheim and he wasn't in Toronto. He's starting to run out of options. A no show in Arizona and stick a fork in him, he's done.
    Quoting: F50marco
    Quoting: MattyMadden28
    I'll defend holland. He is a good player (third line Center) with soft hands but that's not the only thing that was soft. He's better then smith and Martin. He deserved a chance to play but typical people chirp him because he didn't produce playing 4th line with AHL skill players. I'm glad for him he gets to move on but it was bad asset management no playing him then dumping him. Oh well. Wish him all the best.


    Are you defending him for the sake of defending him Matty? I think its pretty established at this point. He's not that great a player. OK maybe we tend to go overboard like 1967's comment.

    But I'm not sure there is any valid points you can make that he is a "good" 3rd liner. He wasn't in Anaheim and he wasn't in Toronto. He's starting to run out of options. A no show in Arizona and stick a fork in him, he's done.
    27 points in a season is hardly "scrub" status
     
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