SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

What would it take

Created by: NucksnOilers
Team: 2020-21 Edmonton Oilers
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 16, 2021
Published: Feb. 16, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Ducks aren't going to trade him away for nothing so should I add more or not?? (Maybe Benson too???)
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
3$925,000
Trades
EDM
  1. Gibson, John
Additional Details:
Best Goalie in the League.
ANA
  1. Broberg, Philip
  2. Holloway, Dylan
  3. Koskinen, Mikko
  4. 2021 1st round pick (EDM)
  5. 2023 2nd round pick (EDM)
Additional Details:
Koskinen would be a place holder as their starter until they find/draft a new one.
Broberg is set up to be a top 4 d-man maybe even more in the future.
Holloway could easily win the hoby baker this year and has potential to be an all star level center.
The first will probably be around the mid which could be a great player with the right scouts.
The second is too sweeten.
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the EDM
2022
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
2023
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$80,272,365$341,534$1,230,000$1,227,635
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$975,000$975,000
LW, RW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$12,500,000$12,500,000
C
UFA - 6
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$2,150,000$2,150,000
RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$700,000$700,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$8,500,000$8,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$6,000,000$6,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,175,000$1,175,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,650,000$1,650,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$894,166$894,166 (Performance Bonus$230,000$230K)
RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,200,000$1,200,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$5,600,000$5,600,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,166,666$4,166,666
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
$6,400,000$6,400,000
G
UFA - 7
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD/RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$3,750,000$3,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,500,000$1,500,000 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
G
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$850,000$850,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$850,000$850,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$725,000$725,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$808,333$808,333
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$2,000,000$2,000,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,167,000$4,167,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$915,000$915,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 4
Taxi Squad
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$5,750,000$5,750,000 ($4,675,000$5M$4,675,000$5M)
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$745,000$745,000 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$875,000$875,000 ($0$0$0$0)
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$700,000$700,000 ($0$0$0$0)
RW
UFA - 1

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Feb. 16, 2021 at 3:49 p.m.
#26
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 23,761
Likes: 7,635
Quoting: DRshnuckels87
As much as I beleive that my deal is a overpayment with hollaway and a second. That deal is not good at all the first will be mid and bear at his highest potential is top 4.


Have you been watching the same team I have? Bear is already a 1st pairing defenseman.
Copenhagen liked this.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:04 p.m.
#27
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 23,761
Likes: 7,635
Quoting: OldNYIfan
Since the start of 2021:

Gibson: . . . . . . .2.33 GAA - .921 Sv% - 3 shutouts
Koskinen: . . . . .3.43 GAA - .894 Sv% - 1 assist


Sure, but that's a small sample size where Koskinen was run into the ground due to the Smith injury and Holland bungling the 3rd goalie/waiver situation repeatedly. In the first 3 weeks Koskinen had played BY FAR the most minutes (593, 2nd was Grubauer with 478) and had faced BY FAR the most shots (325, 2nd was Vanecek with 241). That kind of workload - 10 games in 18 days - would break down just about any goalie.

To show just how insane 593 minutes in 18 days is, you can look at Gibson himself: by the time he'd played 593 minutes, 25 days had gone by - fully 7 more days than Koskinen. And Gibson had the 2nd most minutes of all goalies in the NHL at that point.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:05 p.m.
#28
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: CD282
Have you been watching the same team I have? Bear is already a 1st pairing defenseman.


Bear and a 1st is already more than any team in the past 10 years have gotten for a goalie.
CD282 liked this.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:07 p.m.
#29
Once a Kings Fan Too
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 39,676
Likes: 24,591
Quoting: Copenhagen
The west goalies are getting lit up like the 4th of July, Gibson would be different stats in the Canadian division drastically as well


Fleury = 7 wins (t-4th), 1.38 GAA (3rd), .944 Sv% (2nd), 8 games
Grubauer = 7 wins (t-4th), 1.61 GAA (4th), .937 Sv% (4th), 10 games
Gibson = 5 wins (t-14th), 2.33 GAA (13th), .921 Sv% (14th), 13 games
Kuemper = 5 wins (t-14th), 2.26 GAA (10th), .919 Sv% (16th), 12 games
Binnington = 7 wins (t-4th), 2.37 GAA (14th), .918 Sv% (17th), 12 games

(out of 52 goalies with at least 4 games played)

That's hardly "getting lit up like the 4th of July."

(Note that other than his 6 wins, Koskinen doesn't surpass any of these 5 in any other category of those listed.)
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:07 p.m.
#30
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: OldNYIfan
Fleury = 7 wins (t-4th), 1.38 GAA (3rd), .944 Sv% (2nd), 8 games
Grubauer = 7 wins (t-4th), 1.61 GAA (4th), .937 Sv% (4th), 10 games
Gibson = 5 wins (t-14th), 2.33 GAA (13th), .921 Sv% (14th), 13 games
Kuemper = 5 wins (t-14th), 2.26 GAA (10th), .919 Sv% (16th), 12 games
Binnington = 7 wins (t-4th), 2.37 GAA (14th), .918 Sv% (17th), 12 games

(out of 52 goalies with at least 4 games played)

That's hardly "getting lit up like the 4th of July."

(Note that other than his 6 wins, Koskinen doesn't surpass any of these 5 in any other category of those listed.)


None of those goalies are in the Canadian division
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:08 p.m.
#31
Once a Kings Fan Too
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 39,676
Likes: 24,591
Quoting: Copenhagen
Bear and a 1st is already more than any team in the past 10 years have gotten for a goalie.


The weakness in your argument is that John Gibson is not "a goalie."
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:10 p.m.
#32
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: OldNYIfan
The weakness in your argument is that John Gibson is not "a goalie."


WHAT I said Gibson was top 3 goalie in the NHL!!! I said all the goalies in the Canadian division are getting lit up like the 4th of July. You understand Gibson is not in the Canadian division I hope!
CD282 liked this.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:12 p.m.
#33
Once a Kings Fan Too
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 39,676
Likes: 24,591
Quoting: Copenhagen
None of those goalies are in the Canadian division


Which means that speculating what their figures would look like if they were in the Canadian division is just silly, doesn't it?
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:12 p.m.
#34
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 462
Likes: 162
Quoting: DRshnuckels87
Free agency could potential be a bigger risk then this. If we throw a ton of money at a guy in free agency we could be stuck in a bobrovsky situation which would set the whole franchise back.


It's not a guarantee that Gibson doesn't start playing badly either. Signing or trading for a starting goalie is always a risk. Trading our 2 top prospects and some picks guarantees problems in the future. I'd take a chance signing Grubauer, Binnington, Mrazek, or possibly Driedger if he looks for real by the offseason. Term will likely be 4 years, Holland refused to give Markstrom 6 so that lowers risk
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:15 p.m.
#35
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: McDavidFan97
It's not a guarantee that Gibson doesn't start playing badly either. Signing or trading for a starting goalie is always a risk. Trading our 2 top prospects and some picks guarantees problems in the future. I'd take a chance signing Grubauer, Binnington, Mrazek, or possibly Driedger if he looks for real by the offseason. Term will likely be 4 years, Holland refused to give Markstrom 6 so that lowers risk


Driedger is who I am going after if I am Oilers. Ducks would be insane to trade Gibson. Guys like him are very hard to come by
McDavidFan97 and CD282 liked this.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:16 p.m.
#36
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: Copenhagen
Driedger is who I am going after if I am Oilers. Ducks would be insane to trade Gibson. Guys like him are very hard to come by


And yes in front of oilers D gibson would be worse lol
CD282 liked this.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:16 p.m.
#37
Once a Kings Fan Too
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 39,676
Likes: 24,591
Quoting: Copenhagen
WHAT I said Gibson was top 3 goalie in the NHL!!! I said all the goalies in the Canadian division are getting lit up like the 4th of July. You understand Gibson is not in the Canadian division I hope!


Whether Gibson is in the Canadian division or the western division isn't what we're discussing. We're discussing your inapposite statement that "Bear and a 1st is already more than any team in the past 10 years has gotten for a goalie," to which I replied, "The flaw in your argument is that John Gibson is not 'a goalie'."
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:17 p.m.
#38
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: OldNYIfan
Whether Gibson is in the Canadian division or the western division isn't what we're discussing. We're discussing your inapposite statement that "Bear and a 1st is already more than any team in the past 10 years has gotten for a goalie," to which I replied, "The flaw in your argument is that John Gibson is not 'a goalie'."


Is Lehner not a goalie either???
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:19 p.m.
#39
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 23,761
Likes: 7,635
Quoting: Copenhagen
Driedger is who I am going after if I am Oilers. Ducks would be insane to trade Gibson. Guys like him are very hard to come by


I like Ullmark, as well.
Copenhagen liked this.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 4:20 p.m.
#40
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: CD282
I like Ullmark, as well.


Yah he would be a good choice, he plays in front of the sabres D
CD282 liked this.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 6:14 p.m.
#41
Once a Kings Fan Too
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 39,676
Likes: 24,591
Quoting: Copenhagen
Is Lehner not a goalie either???


You really have a problem focusing on the issue at hand. Nobody has mentioned Lehner in this thread until you just did. We were discussing the exchange in which you said "Bear and a 1st is already more than any team in the past 10 years has gotten for a goalie," to which I replied, "The flaw in your argument is that John Gibson is not 'a goalie'." If I was unclear, I was pointing out that John Gibson is not a random goalie.

And surely you're not claiming that the deadline trade of a UFA is in any intellectually honest universe comparable to the trade of one of the top 3 goalies in the NHL who is signed for six more years at a below-market AAV?
Feb. 16, 2021 at 7:06 p.m.
#42
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: OldNYIfan
You really have a problem focusing on the issue at hand. Nobody has mentioned Lehner in this thread until you just did. We were discussing the exchange in which you said "Bear and a 1st is already more than any team in the past 10 years has gotten for a goalie," to which I replied, "The flaw in your argument is that John Gibson is not 'a goalie'." If I was unclear, I was pointing out that John Gibson is not a random goalie.

And surely you're not claiming that the deadline trade of a UFA is in any intellectually honest universe comparable to the trade of one of the top 3 goalies in the NHL who is signed for six more years at a below-market AAV?


Ahhhhh Yes I did mention Lehner already. You need to look over the thread again. And yes a first pair D and a first round pick is so so so much more than any goalie has gotten in the past 10 years. Look for yourself. Lehner is just about as good as Gibson, so close. But in my opinion Gibson is a tiny bit better. Other people might have a different opinion.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 7:10 p.m.
#43
Once a Kings Fan Too
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 39,676
Likes: 24,591
Quoting: Copenhagen
Ahhhhh Yes I did mention Lehner already. You need to look over the thread again. And yes a first pair D and a first round pick is so so so much more than any goalie has gotten in the past 10 years. Look for yourself. Lehner is just about as good as Gibson, so close. But in my opinion Gibson is a tiny bit better. Other people might have a different opinion.


The frequently repeated statement that “no goalie has been traded for more than a first and X,” while undeniably true, is probative of nothing because it is utterly meaningless. To understand why, consider this statement:

“No Norris Trophy winner has ever been traded for more than a fourth-round draft pick.”

“No Norris Trophy winner has ever been traded for less than three first-round draft picks.”

All equally true; all undeniably true; and all utterly meaningless.

The fact that none of these trades has ever occurred does not mean that those are the proper values for the trades; it simply means that none of these trades has ever occurred, period.

My point about your mentioning Lehner is that it has nothing to do with anything remotely relating to Gibson. He was a UFA, and two years older.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 7:30 p.m.
#44
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: OldNYIfan
The frequently repeated statement that “no goalie has been traded for more than a first and X,” while undeniably true, is probative of nothing because it is utterly meaningless. To understand why, consider this statement:

“No Norris Trophy winner has ever been traded for more than a fourth-round draft pick.”

“No Norris Trophy winner has ever been traded for less than three first-round draft picks.”

All equally true; all undeniably true; and all utterly meaningless.

The fact that none of these trades has ever occurred does not mean that those are the proper values for the trades; it simply means that none of these trades has ever occurred, period.

My point about your mentioning Lehner is that it has nothing to do with anything remotely relating to Gibson. He was a UFA, and two years older.


The point is Goalies never go for as much as they are worth for some reason. You surely must understand that. Therfore getting 2 of the top 3 oilers best prospects is something (like I said above ) is something I would never do. Therefore an overpayment. Look over the past goalie trades over time. A first line D and a first would be more than any goalie trade ever got in my memory. Therfore its a lot to give up. You can value him how you want, I will value him how I want and go on your way.

With Shesterkin, Samsonov, Hart and the other guy up and coming from Blue Jackets, Gibsons value will continue to deteriorate fast. But I wouldnt trade him anyways if I am the ducks.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 7:56 p.m.
#45
Once a Kings Fan Too
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 39,676
Likes: 24,591
Quoting: Copenhagen
The point is Goalies never go for as much as they are worth for some reason. You surely must understand that. Therefore getting 2 of the top 3 oilers best prospects is something (like I said above ) is something I would never do. Therefore an overpayment. Look over the past goalie trades over time. A first line D and a first would be more than any goalie trade ever got in my memory. Therefore its a lot to give up. You can value him how you want, I will value him how I want and go on your way.

With Shesterkin, Samsonov, Hart and the other guy up and coming from Blue Jackets, Gibsons value will continue to deteriorate fast. But I wouldnt trade him anyways if I am the ducks.


But your first sentence there assumes facts not in evidence: that world-class goalies get traded at all, and that the value of the goalies that HAVE been traded is somehow below the Platonic ideal of what they're truly worth. I don't think that Jake Allen went below his market value.

Let me try again to show you how logic works.

The statement that “no [first-class] goalie has ever been traded for more than Ethan Bear and a first” implies, logically, that the value of a goalie is MORE than Ethan Bear and a first. Why? Because if the reason that the statement that “no goalie has ever been traded for more than Ethan Bear and a first” is true is that the expressed value is TOO HIGH, then it logically, and inevitably, follows that SOME such goalie (along the lines of Binnington, Hart, Kuemper, Markstrom, etc.) would have been traded for less. And if THAT were true, then we’d see such goalies flying around like tumbleweeds in a sandstorm. But we don’t.

A lot of people don’t understand the fallacy in the “a comparable trade has never occurred” statement. Consider a similar one: “No world-class Norris Trophy defender like Victor Hedman or Roman Josi has ever been traded for more than two first-round draft picks.” Does that mean that two first-round picks is the proper price for one of those guys? But we’ve seen lots of lesser defensemen traded for less, haven’t we?

I know that you’re highly impressed that Robin Lehner was traded for a second and a song, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with anything under discussion because he was on an expiring contract when traded. Never mind any perceived on-ice difference in ability or performance; the discrepancy between Lehner’s pending free-agent situation and Gibson’s current six-year-plus term makes their respective trade values a galaxy apart.

As to your idea that Gibson's value will continue to deteriorate, I don't accept that it has deteriorated, or that it necessarily will. Gibson's and Vasilevskiy's current contracts both expire weeks prior to their 34th birthdays. Many world-class goalies function at the same high level after their 35th birthdays, as I think Cary Price will.

As for the rest of your comment, it's 100% valid. It's entirely sensible that you wouldn't want to pay the price I've suggested, and thus you firmly believe that it's an overpayment for your team. That's your call, and I'm not disputing it. Moreover, I don't expect to be proven "right" by an actual-world trade, either of a Gibson-Hellebuyck-Vasilevskiy netminder or a lesser #1 goalie, so we'll never know what Gibson's true trade value is. But the history you cite and logic tell me that it isn't as low as Ethan Bear and a first.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 8:13 p.m.
#46
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: OldNYIfan
But your first sentence there assumes facts not in evidence: that world-class goalies get traded at all, and that the value of the goalies that HAVE been traded is somehow below the Platonic ideal of what they're truly worth. I don't think that Jake Allen went below his market value.

Let me try again to show you how logic works.

The statement that “no [first-class] goalie has ever been traded for more than Ethan Bear and a first” implies, logically, that the value of a goalie is MORE than Ethan Bear and a first. Why? Because if the reason that the statement that “no goalie has ever been traded for more than Ethan Bear and a first” is true is that the expressed value is TOO HIGH, then it logically, and inevitably, follows that SOME such goalie (along the lines of Binnington, Hart, Kuemper, Markstrom, etc.) would have been traded for less. And if THAT were true, then we’d see such goalies flying around like tumbleweeds in a sandstorm. But we don’t.

A lot of people don’t understand the fallacy in the “a comparable trade has never occurred” statement. Consider a similar one: “No world-class Norris Trophy defender like Victor Hedman or Roman Josi has ever been traded for more than two first-round draft picks.” Does that mean that two first-round picks is the proper price for one of those guys? But we’ve seen lots of lesser defensemen traded for less, haven’t we?

I know that you’re highly impressed that Robin Lehner was traded for a second and a song, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with anything under discussion because he was on an expiring contract when traded. Never mind any perceived on-ice difference in ability or performance; the discrepancy between Lehner’s pending free-agent situation and Gibson’s current six-year-plus term makes their respective trade values a galaxy apart.

As to your idea that Gibson's value will continue to deteriorate, I don't accept that it has deteriorated, or that it necessarily will. Gibson's and Vasilevskiy's current contracts both expire weeks prior to their 34th birthdays. Many world-class goalies function at the same high level after their 35th birthdays, as I think Cary Price will.

As for the rest of your comment, it's 100% valid. It's entirely sensible that you wouldn't want to pay the price I've suggested, and thus you firmly believe that it's an overpayment for your team. That's your call, and I'm not disputing it. Moreover, I don't expect to be proven "right" by an actual-world trade, either of a Gibson-Hellebuyck-Vasilevskiy netminder or a lesser #1 goalie, so we'll never know what Gibson's true trade value is. But the history you cite and logic tell me that it isn't as low as Ethan Bear and a first.


Erik Karlsson
Feb. 16, 2021 at 10:55 p.m.
#47
Once a Kings Fan Too
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 39,676
Likes: 24,591
Quoting: Copenhagen
Erik Karlsson


Karlsson was traded for a first and two seconds.

I did my homework before posting.
Feb. 16, 2021 at 11:04 p.m.
#48
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 2,513
Quoting: OldNYIfan
Karlsson was traded for a first and two seconds.

I did my homework before posting.


Could have been 3 firsts though I think. Am I correct? Plus 2 legit NHL players
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll