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Wild and Sharks discussion - Hertl for Boldy Addison

Created by: yikes
Team: 2020-21 San Jose Sharks
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 21, 2021
Published: Feb. 21, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
1$925,000
3$887,450
3$887,821
3$975,000
3$975,000
3$975,000
3$975,000
3$975,000
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Beniers, Matthew
3$879,625
Chayka, Daniil
3$925,000
Our New, Prospect Pool
1$700,000
Trades
1.
SJS
  1. Addison, Calen
  2. Boldy, Matthew [Reserve List]
  3. Rask, Victor
  4. 2021 1st round pick (PIT)
Additional Details:
Top 10 Protected (will become a top 10 protected 2022 1st if needed to swap)
MIN
  1. Hertl, Tomas ($2,000,000 retained)
Additional Details:
2020-2021 TDL - the Wild pick up a solid top line center/ top 6 forward with 2 years of retention of 4m total.

They then gain 8m in cap relief losing Rask x 2 years. That would cost around a second plus maybe a third or kinda whatever prospect so that plus hertls retention I’ve equaled out to the protected first. Than Boldy + Addison is more than a fair return for Hertl if anything it’s slightly Sharks favoured but I believe this is a big win for the Wild getting their top end center plus ridding themselves of 8m in cap (and getting Hertl for a 3m AAV is pretty damn solid).
2.
SJS
  1. Jost, Tyson
Additional Details:
Change of scenery for Jost is almost best
COL
  1. Marleau, Patrick ($350,000 retained)
  2. Nieto, Matt ($350,000 retained)
  3. 2021 4th round pick (SJS)
Additional Details:
Cup Chance for Marleau
Nieto goes back somewhere comfortable

2 bottom 6 wingers for the price of 1 (the retention) allows for a great deal in cap flexibility (yes retention this low is allowed)
3.
SJS
  1. 2022 4th round pick (COL)
Additional Details:
*PLACEHOLDER TEAM*
COL
  1. Dubnyk, Devan
Additional Details:
Anywhere that needs a backup with room and they’re in the market
4.
SJS
  1. 2023 4th round pick (COL)
Additional Details:
*PLACEHOLDER TEAM*
5.
SJS
    SJS #6: Matthew Beniers (Powers, Clarke, Evidinsson, Johnson, Hughes)
    SJS via MIN via PIT #16: Daniil Chayka
    COL
    1. 2021 1st round pick (SJS)
    2. 2021 1st round pick (PIT)
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    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$81,500,000$70,130,791$0$642,500$11,369,209
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    G
    M-NTC
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    LD/RD
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    G
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    LD/RD
    NMC
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    G
    RFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
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    RD
    NMC
    UFA - 7
    Our New, Prospect Pool
    $700,000$700,000
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    $2,250,000$2,250,000
    LD/RD
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    Beniers, Matthew
    $879,625$879,625
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    RW, LW
    UFA - 3
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    $863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$300,000$300K)
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
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    RD
    RFA - 3
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    LW
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    RW
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    LW, RW
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    LD
    RFA
    Logo of the San Jose Sharks
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    C
    RFA
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    $776,667$776,667 (Performance Bonus$110,000$110K)
    C, LW
    UFA - 2
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    C
    RFA - 5
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    C
    RFA
    Taxi Squad
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    $700,000$700,000 ($0$0$0$0)
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    UFA - 1
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    $736,666$736,666 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$20,000$20K)
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the San Jose Sharks
    $700,000$700,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the San Jose Sharks
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    C
    UFA - 1

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    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:16 p.m.
    #1
    EklundCelebriniSmith
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    Quick Breakdown:

    Addison
    Boldy

    ->

    Hertl

    +

    Rask (8m aav total) + 4m aav savings on Hertl = 12m AAV saved

    ->

    Protected First

    Which I believe is a very fair trade for both parties. Each side lose and win. Sharks maybe don’t get the most out of a Hertl trade as they pick up 12m in dead cap technically. But they get a SOLID return. The Wild lose two nice and shiny pieces but they gain a top end center for a playoff push and 12m in AAV cap savings. This gives the money to spend in the present and future (or save I guess) and with Hertl also being on a 2 year remaining deal so they don’t just get a rental.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:17 p.m.
    #2
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    I wouldn't do Boldy straight up for Hertl, if I were Bill Guerin.
    Lightman13 liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:18 p.m.
    #3
    Bcarlo25
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    Quoting: yikes
    Quick Breakdown:

    Addison
    Boldy

    ->

    Hertl

    +

    Rask (8m aav total) + 4m aav savings on Hertl = 12m AAV saved

    ->

    Protected First


    Personally i think that’s an overpay.
    Lightman13 liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:19 p.m.
    #4
    John 3 16
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    Avs pass. Jost doesn't need a change of scenery. He's doing fine in his 4th line PK role and doesn't cost much, perfect depth guy and Avs have no need to move him for pending UFAs/your spare parts.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:20 p.m.
    #5
    Thread Starter
    EklundCelebriniSmith
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    Quoting: Richard88
    Avs pass. Jost doesn't need a change of scenery. He's doing fine in his 4th line PK role and doesn't cost much, perfect depth guy and Avs have no need to move him for pending UFAs/your spare parts.


    Hey don’t call long beach native spare parts
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:20 p.m.
    #6
    Thread Starter
    EklundCelebriniSmith
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    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    Personally i think that’s an overpay.


    That’s fair, a pick could be returned to the Wild seeing as they lose 3 future players (pick + 2 specs)

    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    I wouldn't do Boldy straight up for Hertl, if I were Bill Guerin.


    I mean that’s quite the call (which I heavily disagree with) but I do understand the love for Boldy as he’s the centre piece for the Sharks end as to why I also chose him as I love Boldy.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:22 p.m.
    #7
    John 3 16
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    Quoting: yikes
    Hey don’t call long beach native spare parts


    Lol, apologies.

    Still, it's a no.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:22 p.m.
    #8
    Bcarlo25
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    Quoting: yikes
    That’s fair, a pick could be returned to the Wild seeing as they lose 3 future players (pick + 2 specs)



    I mean that’s quite the call but I do understand the love for Boldy as he’s the centre piece for the Sharks end.


    I had this discussion who was suggesting the bruins should trade every asset for hertl.

    He’s got one good outlier season. It’s the only time he’s cracked 50 points. Aside from that one outlier season, he’s averaged 34 points per season. I’m not saying he’s a bad player or anything, but he just doesn’t have the offensive punch to warrant such a hefty price tag.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:23 p.m.
    #9
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    Avs decline, Jost is finding his role and his contract is worth more a LOT to the Avs right now, a great pker and solid bottom 6 guy under $900k is gold for the Avs he isn’t going anywhere and odds are gets protected in XD.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:24 p.m.
    #10
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    Quoting: yikes
    Hey don’t call long beach native spare parts

    One of the best guys in the league. Always liked him and then learned the story about his sister and loved him.
    yikes liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:26 p.m.
    #11
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    I like Hertl a lot but this is too much
    Wqrrior, RazWild, Lightman13 and 3 others liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:28 p.m.
    #12
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    Quoting: yikes
    That’s fair, a pick could be returned to the Wild seeing as they lose 3 future players (pick + 2 specs)



    I mean that’s quite the call (which I heavily disagree with) but I do understand the love for Boldy as he’s the centre piece for the Sharks end as to why I also chose him as I love Boldy.


    Only 1.5 years of Hertl.
    Maybe if SJS took a cap dump back.
    But its selling too much of future, in my view.
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:34 p.m.
    #13
    Thread Starter
    EklundCelebriniSmith
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    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    I had this discussion who was suggesting the bruins should trade every asset for hertl.

    He’s got one good outlier season. It’s the only time he’s cracked 50 points. Aside from that one outlier season, he’s averaged 34 points per season. I’m not saying he’s a bad player or anything, but he just doesn’t have the offensive punch to warrant such a hefty price tag.


    I agree with that argument which is fair but Hertl has proven statistically that he’s not a fluke and he’s dominant 5v5 etc.

    I can counter that with his first season near a PPG then Brown derailed her career with a devastating knee injury. Following season Hertl truly was not the same player we’d thought to see and it was due to the knee. Followed up by a more complete season and trending upwards still around 0.50 ppg but he had a stellar playoffs and really showed his value in more than just points and proved he was trending upwards.

    Then another injury which derailed him. Followed by another season of trending upwards to regain his place which again followed up with a stellar playoff performance to show he was trending up.

    Then his big year where we got the full look at Hertl that he’s always shown and which once again he has a dominant playoffs. That was what Hertl almost always looks like for us when he’s on.

    Then last year teams is garbage everyone’s garbage EXCEPT Hertl then lol once again injured and just told he should take time and he obviously didn’t need to rush to play again.

    Which leads us to today and he’s near ppg and finding his footing after rehab but still showing how dominant he can be (albeit he is still finding his footing).

    So I completely agree that this all still shows it’s a scary price for a guy who hasn’t had a fair shake or a full run at his stats and injuries show that as he’s either 100% dominant or injured and in between he’s rehabbing (which atleast he already has done due to covid). But also shows how good he’s been despite all these setbacks and how good he still sis and still can be better.
    FunMustBeAlways liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:35 p.m.
    #14
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    EklundCelebriniSmith
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Only 1.5 years of Hertl.
    Maybe if SJS took a cap dump back.
    But its selling too much of future, in my view.


    JS we did, I took Rask back

    Quoting: TanSor
    I like Hertl a lot but this is too much


    Whats the odds of a pick going back warming the Wild up too it? Or fix the first pick part of it to something else (or both?).
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:42 p.m.
    #15
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    I had a similar idea to this, but I had the Sharks trading Hertl next year (at the TDL) for Boldy, a 2022 1st and a 2023 3rd, with Hertl signing an extension after the trade. I feel like that value does match up, especially with a potential extension. Also trading him next year sets up an opportunity to tank in a draft where the 1st pick is an actual prize (Shane Wright).
    Lightman13 and FunMustBeAlways liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:42 p.m.
    #16
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    Quoting: yikes
    JS we did, I took Rask back



    Whats the odds of a pick going back warming the Wild up too it? Or fix the first pick part of it to something else (or both?).


    Rask? I was thinking Zuccerello or Parise type cap move.
    Lightman13 liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:45 p.m.
    #17
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    This is fleece territory.

    Sharks fans demand far too much for Hertl in trades on this website. For whatever reason their requirements are GROWING, rather than shrinking.

    Hertl is a high end 2C, and, although he can carry out the duty of 1C, he's nowhere near top 20.... this package resembles a move for a top 20 C.

    At a high end, he resembles Duchene's trade, though Hertl is not what Duchene was at the time of his move. At a low end he equates to Trocheck.

    If Boldy is involved, not much else of anything should go to the Sharks.
    RazWild, SevenLeg, Lightman13 and 1 other person liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:47 p.m.
    #18
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    Hertl is a nice player, but not worth near that much. A late 1st + B prospect okay, but not a teens 1st + 2 A prospects.

    Rask is needed by MN, not a cap dump for them to jettison this year.
    Wqrrior, Lightman13, OldNYIfan and 1 other person liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 6:53 p.m.
    #19
    Bcarlo25
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    Quoting: yikes
    I agree with that argument which is fair but Hertl has proven statistically that he’s not a fluke and he’s dominant 5v5 etc.

    I can counter that with his first season near a PPG then Brown derailed her career with a devastating knee injury. Following season Hertl truly was not the same player we’d thought to see and it was due to the knee. Followed up by a more complete season and trending upwards still around 0.50 ppg but he had a stellar playoffs and really showed his value in more than just points and proved he was trending upwards.

    Then another injury which derailed him. Followed by another season of trending upwards to regain his place which again followed up with a stellar playoff performance to show he was trending up.

    Then his big year where we got the full look at Hertl that he’s always shown and which once again he has a dominant playoffs. That was what Hertl almost always looks like for us when he’s on.

    Then last year teams is garbage everyone’s garbage EXCEPT Hertl then lol once again injured and just told he should take time and he obviously didn’t need to rush to play again.

    Which leads us to today and he’s near ppg and finding his footing after rehab but still showing how dominant he can be (albeit he is still finding his footing).

    So I completely agree that this all still shows it’s a scary price for a guy who hasn’t had a fair shake or a full run at his stats and injuries show that as he’s either 100% dominant or injured and in between he’s rehabbing (which atleast he already has done due to covid). But also shows how good he’s been despite all these setbacks and how good he still sis and still can be better.


    I get that, but in terms of trade value, none of that really matters. He’s a good player, everyone in the league would want him, but he’s not worth this kind of package.
    The list of reasons for him not having success are all things that opposing GMs are going to factor in.
    Injures: that certainly matters and hurts his trade value.
    Apparently the need to play with good players: hurts his value.

    The bottom line is that he’s a good all around player that’s solid, but very underwhelming offensively. He’s a rock solid middle six player, but you’re asking legit elite first liner prices for him.
    Wqrrior liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 7:11 p.m.
    #20
    Bad Take Bot v1.02
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    I'm a big fan of Boldy so I'd do that even without the 1st.
    yikes liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 7:12 p.m.
    #21
    Hockey Fan13
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    I like Hertl, but wouldn't pay this for him. Hertl should probably return a top 10 protected 1st a strong prospect, a b level prospect or a late 2nd early 3rd and a cap dump IMO. However a team who is closer to being a Stanley Cup contender will likely pay more.
    Lightman13, yikes, OldNYIfan and 1 other person liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 7:19 p.m.
    #22
    Patient gm
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    I honesty feel for him and the sharks in general. Just in a bad spot from a cap and aged veteran perspective. Especially with EK being so injured now that he has his massive contract and is just a shell of his former dominant self.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 7:19 p.m.
    #23
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    EklundCelebriniSmith
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    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    I get that, but in terms of trade value, none of that really matters. He’s a good player, everyone in the league would want him, but he’s not worth this kind of package.
    The list of reasons for him not having success are all things that opposing GMs are going to factor in.
    Injures: that certainly matters and hurts his trade value.
    Apparently the need to play with good players: hurts his value.

    The bottom line is that he’s a good all around player that’s solid, but very underwhelming offensively. He’s a rock solid middle six player, but you’re asking legit elite first liner prices for him.

    I disagree this is a package for an elite player but I understand what you’re saying and I know you ain’t trashing Hertl.
    Quoting: wabit
    Hertl is a nice player, but not worth near that much. A late 1st + B prospect okay, but not a teens 1st + 2 A prospects.

    Rask is needed by MN, not a cap dump for them to jettison this year.


    Quoting: Wqrrior
    This is fleece territory.

    Sharks fans demand far too much for Hertl in trades on this website. For whatever reason their requirements are GROWING, rather than shrinking.

    Hertl is a high end 2C, and, although he can carry out the duty of 1C, he's nowhere near top 20.... this package resembles a move for a top 20 C.

    At a high end, he resembles Duchene's trade, though Hertl is not what Duchene was at the time of his move. At a low end he equates to Trocheck.

    If Boldy is involved, not much else of anything should go to the Sharks.

    Quoting: OutCold13
    I like Hertl, but wouldn't pay this for him. Hertl should probably return a top 10 protected 1st a strong prospect, a b level prospect or a late 2nd early 3rd and a cap dump IMO. However a team who is closer to being a Stanley Cup contender will likely pay more.

    To clarify I’d be perfectly fine removing the first. Making it Hertl with retention Addison Boldy and taking away Rask plus the first. The first was only their for Hertl retention and Rask 4m x2.
    In my opinion Boldy and Addison for Hertl is a more then fair ask. I used the zucker trade as a template (first plus Addison) as that’s really what a he returned. Here that first is Boldy.

    To clarify the ask isn’t a first + two prospects it’s the 2 prospect alone for Hertl. If my top end 20 centre returned Boldy and Addison alone that’s a pretty poor return. So I disagree this package is what a top 20 guy gets cause it’s just two prospects.
    OutCold13 liked this.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 7:34 p.m.
    #24
    Hockey Fan13
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    Quoting: yikes
    I disagree this is a package for an elite player but I understand what you’re saying and I know you ain’t trashing Hertl.




    To clarify I’d be perfectly fine removing the first. Making it Hertl with retention Addison Boldy and taking away Rask plus the first. The first was only their for Hertl retention and Rask 4m x2.
    In my opinion Boldy and Addison for Hertl is a more then fair ask. I used the zucker trade as a template (first plus Addison) as that’s really what a he returned. Here that first is Boldy.

    To clarify the ask isn’t a first + two prospects it’s the 2 prospect alone for Hertl. If my top end 20 centre returned Boldy and Addison alone that’s a pretty poor return. So I disagree this package is what a top 20 guy gets cause it’s just two prospects.


    I agree the Zucker trade is a good base however I believe Hertl will bring a better return then Zucker because of the premium on the center position. I don't even think your ask is flawed I'm just thinking the reason the Wild pass is because their window won't open up for a couple more years so Wild would look for a younger guy or someone they can get cheaper.
    Feb. 21, 2021 at 7:38 p.m.
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    EklundCelebriniSmith
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    Quoting: OutCold13
    I agree the Zucker trade is a good base however I believe Hertl will bring a better return then Zucker because of the premium on the center position. I don't even think your ask is flawed I'm just thinking the reason the Wild pass is because their window won't open up for a couple more years so Wild would look for a younger guy or someone they can get cheaper.

    No worries just so many replies with varying positions just copied the ones I thought disagreed with the ask. I do personally think the ask of Boldy and Addison is slightly low but I value both them enough to be satisfied with the return (if I was a GM and this was my best offer I’d be satisfied, wouldn’t be happy but I wouldn’t be upset nor do I think the fans would be it just leaves something to be desired as a sharks fan but it’s fair)
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