Forums/Armchair-GM

Make any sense question mark

Created by: Anus_McLeod
Initial Creation Date: Feb 22, 2021
Published: Feb 22 at 9:58
Team: 2020-21 Colorado Avalanche
Trades
COL
  1. Brown, Logan
Additional Details:
Avs get a C who can add to their depth at a relatively shallow position in terms of prospects. Not sure what Ottawa is planning to do with him at this point, but he could use a change. Ottawa benefits by getting a guy who would be under team control a couple years longer. Kaut could also be the better player in the end.
OTT
  1. Kaut, Martin
Additional Details:
Similar to Brown, not sure what the plan is for Kaut in the Avs organization. The team is deep at RW, and they have a number of prospects at that position as well. The team benefits by adding to the depth at C, which may be important for a team that has historically liked to bring guys in at wing before moving them back to C.
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Ian Cole: $800,000 (19%)
Buried
  • Greg Pateryn: $1,175,000 ($2,250,000)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
2022
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
2023
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$78,926,387$0$5,767,500$2,573,613
Left WingCenterRight Wing
COL
Landeskog, Gabriel
$5,571,429
LW, C
NTC
UFA - 1
COL
MacKinnon, Nathan
$6,300,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 3
COL
Rantanen, Mikko
$9,250,000
RW
UFA - 5
COL
Saad, Brandon
$5,000,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 1
COL
Kadri, Nazem
$4,500,000
C
NTC
UFA - 2
COL
Burakovsky, André
$4,900,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
COL
Nichushkin, Valeri
$2,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
COL
Jost, Tyson
$874,125
C, LW, RW
RFA - 1
COL
Donskoi, Joonas
$3,900,000
RW
UFA - 3
COL
Calvert, Matt
$2,850,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
COL
Bellemare, Pierre-Édouard
$1,800,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
COL
Compher, J.T.
$3,500,000
RW, C
UFA - 3
OTT
Brown, Logan
$863,333
C
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
COL
Byram, Bowen
$894,167
LD
RFA - 3
COL
Makar, Cale
$880,833
RD
RFA - 1
COL
Grubauer, Philipp
$3,333,333
G
UFA - 1
COL
Toews, Devon
$4,100,000
LD
UFA - 4
COL
Girard, Samuel
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 7
COL
Werner, Adam
$842,500
G
RFA - 1
COL
Graves, Ryan
$3,166,667
LD
UFA - 3
COL
Timmins, Conor
$925,000
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
COL
Johnson, Erik
$6,000,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 3
COL
Francouz, Pavel
$2,000,000
G
UFA - 2
Taxi Squad
COL
Gilbert, Dennis
$925,000 ($0)
LD
RFA - 1
COL
Dries, Sheldon
$771,750 ($0)
C
UFA - 1
COL
MacDonald, Jacob
$725,000 ($0)
LD
UFA - 2
COL
Renouf, Daniel
$700,000 ($0)
LD
UFA - 1
COL
O'Connor, Logan
$725,000 ($0)
RW
RFA - 2
COL
Megna, Jayson
$700,000 ($0)
RW
UFA - 1

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Feb 22 at 10:04
#1
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 5,488
Nah I dont see the net benefit of the swap. Kaut is on the first year of his ELC and will be a valuable piece to round out the bottom 6 moving forward, hes having issues cracking a deep talented team, but his defensive game is high end, he will have value no matter what

Brown is in the last year of his ELC and is having issues even staying in the NHL on a bad rebuilding team. Brown loses his waiver exemption as well next season, Kaut they have a lot of flexibility with for a while.

Brown is in Kamanev territory. You dont have to swap Kaut for that
Richard88 liked this.
Feb 22 at 10:22
#2
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 249
Likes: 78
Brown has done a lot better in the minors but he is two years older. I don’t love the trade for either side so that’s probably a good indication that the value is relatively even.
Anus_McLeod liked this.
Feb 22 at 10:23
#3
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 735
Quoting: coga16
Nah I dont see the net benefit of the swap. Kaut is on the first year of his ELC and will be a valuable piece to round out the bottom 6 moving forward, hes having issues cracking a deep talented team, but his defensive game is high end, he will have value no matter what

Brown is in the last year of his ELC and is having issues even staying in the NHL on a bad rebuilding team. Brown loses his waiver exemption as well next season, Kaut they have a lot of flexibility with for a while.

Brown is in Kamanev territory. You dont have to swap Kaut for that


I don't think he's in Kamenev territory. That said, I'm not in love with the trade. Brown is getting pretty close to put up or shut up time.

I don't think Kaut is gonna make it in Colorado though with so many ahead of him on the depth chart. If they can swap him for another prospect at a different position or include him in a package for something bigger then it's worth considering (imo).
Feb 22 at 10:26
#4
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 5,488
Quoting: Anus_McLeod
I don't think he's in Kamenev territory. That said, I'm not in love with the trade. Brown is getting pretty close to put up or shut up time.

I don't think Kaut is gonna make it in Colorado though with so many ahead of him on the depth chart. If they can swap him for another prospect at a different position or include him in a package for something bigger then it's worth considering (imo).


If Kaut cant make the Avs, brown wont make the avs especially over Bowers.
Like I said, all you are doing is trading for the guy you lose all roster flexibility for coming off hie ELC and requiring waivers. Brown has to be in the NHL or he is on waivers starting next year. Kaut doesnt have that issue for a couple more seasons yet
Anus_McLeod liked this.
Feb 22 at 10:32
#5
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 249
Likes: 78
Quoting: coga16
If Kaut cant make the Avs, brown wont make the avs especially over Bowers.
Like I said, all you are doing is trading for the guy you lose all roster flexibility for coming off hie ELC and requiring waivers. Brown has to be in the NHL or he is on waivers starting next year. Kaut doesnt have that issue for a couple more seasons yet


If roster flexibility is your main issue with the trade then Brown could always be signed to a 2 way contract next year...
Feb 22 at 10:34
#6
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 5,488
Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
If roster flexibility is your main issue with the trade then Brown could always be signed to a 2 way contract next year...


thats not how things work.

You would have to non qualify him and he becomes a free agent, then you lose all RFA control of him with him free to sign wherever he wants
Feb 22 at 10:35
#7
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 735
Quoting: coga16
If Kaut cant make the Avs, brown wont make the avs especially over Bowers.
Like I said, all you are doing is trading for the guy you lose all roster flexibility for coming off hie ELC and requiring waivers. Brown has to be in the NHL or he is on waivers starting next year. Kaut doesnt have that issue for a couple more seasons yet


T580
Quoting: coga16
If Kaut cant make the Avs, brown wont make the avs especially over Bowers.
Like I said, all you are doing is trading for the guy you lose all roster flexibility for coming off hie ELC and requiring waivers. Brown has to be in the NHL or he is on waivers starting next year. Kaut doesnt have that issue for a couple more seasons yet


Waivers is a very fair point.

Bowers will most likely start at LW, which gives him a fair shot at making the team next season, and 4C could be a place for Brown. Kaut is behind a lot of bodies at RW. I get that folks like him, but I don't know if the team can maximize his value. At best he ends up at 4RW, but even that might be tough with how well LOC has shown.
Feb 22 at 10:39
#8
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 5,488
Quoting: Anus_McLeod
T580

Waivers is a very fair point.

Bowers will most likely start at LW, which gives him a fair shot at making the team next season, and 4C could be a place for Brown. Kaut is behind a lot of bodies at RW. I get that folks like him, but I don't know if the team can maximize his value. At best he ends up at 4RW, but even that might be tough with how well LOC has shown.


Brown isnt a better C upgrade over Bowers though. Really am not seeing the upside of Brown at all, Sens fans have questioned his ability to be an NHL player...so why would a cup contender take a fringe reclaim project and play them on the 4th line?

If you have issues with Kaut....thats fine but this is not the trade to flip him in. Brown really isnt very good at the NHL level
Richard88 liked this.
Feb 22 at 10:47
#9
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 735
Quoting: coga16
Brown isnt a better C upgrade over Bowers though. Really am not seeing the upside of Brown at all, Sens fans have questioned his ability to be an NHL player...so why would a cup contender take a fringe reclaim project and play them on the 4th line?

If you have issues with Kaut....thats fine but this is not the trade to flip him in. Brown really isnt very good at the NHL level


Bowers was mostly LW last year though. Not sure about this year. I have high hopes for him at C eventually but it may be a couple years.

I don't have issues with Kaut per se. I see him as having a tough time making this roster though, which leads me to want to explore moving.
Feb 22 at 10:50
#10
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 5,488
Quoting: Anus_McLeod
Bowers was mostly LW last year though. Not sure about this year. I have high hopes for him at C eventually but it may be a couple years.

I don't have issues with Kaut per se. I see him as having a tough time making this roster though, which leads me to want to explore moving.


Hes back at C with the eagles, they moved him to wing last year to get him ready for call up opportunities as he would be able to play either position.
But now avs have a bigger need for C, he will be back at C.

Plus with Newhook coming, you can have Newhook at 3C, Bowers./Jost/Compher (deepening on the draft) as the 4C. Really C isnt an issue to move Kaut for a low reward reclaim project in Brown

Brown wont make the team as a C either, so not seeing the benefits
Anus_McLeod liked this.
Feb 22 at 12:50
#11
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 6,954
Likes: 3,043
Initial reaction is that this is bad for Colorado. Kaut has 2 more years of ELC after this year which is very valuable.
Feb 22 at 12:51
#12
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 6,954
Likes: 3,043
Quoting: coga16
Nah I dont see the net benefit of the swap. Kaut is on the first year of his ELC and will be a valuable piece to round out the bottom 6 moving forward, hes having issues cracking a deep talented team, but his defensive game is high end, he will have value no matter what

Brown is in the last year of his ELC and is having issues even staying in the NHL on a bad rebuilding team. Brown loses his waiver exemption as well next season, Kaut they have a lot of flexibility with for a while.

Brown is in Kamanev territory. You dont have to swap Kaut for that


That right there just kills this idea. Avs aren't trading 2 years of Kaut on an ELC for a guy who could be lost on waivers next year.
Feb 22 at 12:55
#13
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 6,954
Likes: 3,043
Quoting: Anus_McLeod
T580

Waivers is a very fair point.

Bowers will most likely start at LW, which gives him a fair shot at making the team next season, and 4C could be a place for Brown. Kaut is behind a lot of bodies at RW. I get that folks like him, but I don't know if the team can maximize his value. At best he ends up at 4RW, but even that might be tough with how well LOC has shown.


I can understand the idea of moving Kaut given our clogged RW, but moving him for a guy like Brown does nothing to help the Avs. If Kaut is moved it needs to be in a package for a 3C or a goalie (eg. Kuemper).
Anus_McLeod liked this.
Feb 22 at 1:13
#14
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 735
Quoting: Richard88
Initial reaction is that this is bad for Colorado. Kaut has 2 more years of ELC after this year which is very valuable.


Brown won't make much more (if at all) on his next deal, so I think that's kind of a wash.

Quoting: Richard88
I can understand the idea of moving Kaut given our clogged RW, but moving him for a guy like Brown does nothing to help the Avs. If Kaut is moved it needs to be in a package for a 3C or a goalie (eg. Kuemper).


Having as many guys that can play C as possible is desirable (imo). Otherwise you end up with Dries in the lineup. Brown still has upside but has been derailed by injuries and a crappy organization. I don't personally think it's as far off as some others.

That said, I can see and appreciate your points. I'd rather include him in a deal for Crosby or Malkin but I do think this is interesting enough to discuss. I just don't see Kaut as an impactful player on this team.
Feb 22 at 1:28
#15
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 6,954
Likes: 3,043
Quoting: Anus_McLeod
Brown won't make much more (if at all) on his next deal, so I think that's kind of a wash.

Having as many guys that can play C as possible is desirable (imo). Otherwise you end up with Dries in the lineup. Brown still has upside but has been derailed by injuries and a crappy organization. I don't personally think it's as far off as some others.

That said, I can see and appreciate your points. I'd rather include him in a deal for Crosby or Malkin but I do think this is interesting enough to discuss. I just don't see Kaut as an impactful player on this team.

I agree that having more C's is never a bad thing.

However, the fact that Brown isn't waiver exempt makes it difficult to have him in a depth role. If he's not in the lineup then he's eating nachos and his contract is counting against the cap instead of being sent down because you don't want to risk him going through waivers.

I'm starting to think that the organisation might be open to trading Kaut. Bednar said he didn't like his camp and he's seemingly down the pecking order of Avs depth forwards behind O'Connor and Sherwood.

It would be huge for this team is Kaut can emerge this season as a legitimate option on the 3rd line like we saw last year though. Kaut - 3C - Donskoi could be pretty decent and an upgrade offensively on what we currently have on that line with Nichuskin and Compher.
Feb 22 at 1:42
#16
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 249
Likes: 78
Quoting: coga16
thats not how things work.

You would have to non qualify him and he becomes a free agent, then you lose all RFA control of him with him free to sign wherever he wants


Are you sure about that? I might be mistaken but I’ve seen Ottawa do that multiple times when a prospect wasn’t quite ready to make the NHL. Most recently Marcus Hogberg was on a two way last year that turned into a on way this year and he was never non-qualified...
Feb 22 at 2:09
#17
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 5,488
Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
Are you sure about that? I might be mistaken but I’ve seen Ottawa do that multiple times when a prospect wasn’t quite ready to make the NHL. Most recently Marcus Hogberg was on a two way last year that turned into a on way this year and he was never non-qualified...


yeah I am sure how that works.
Hoberg came off his ELC, still an RFA, signed a standard contract. 2 way contracts dont make you waiver exempt. all that means is that you have different salaries in the AHL vs NHL
 
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