Forums/Armchair-GM

An idea I had if they want to rebuild

Created by: sens65
Initial Creation Date: Feb 28, 2021
Published: Feb 28 at 11:31
Team: 2020-21 Pittsburgh Penguins
Team Explanation
Is the value even in the ballpark?
Trades
PIT
  1. Tavares, John ($2,300,000 retained)
  2. Robertson, Nicholas
  3. Hirvonen, Roni [Reserve List]
  4. Amirov, Rodion [Reserve List]
  5. Hållander, Filip
  6. 2021 1st round pick (TOR)
  7. 2022 1st round pick (TOR)
TOR
  1. Crosby, Sidney
Buyouts
  • Jack Johnson: $1,166,667
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Nick Bjugstad: $2,050,000 (50%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
TOR
PIT
PIT
PIT
WSH
ANA
2022
PIT
TOR
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2023
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
25$81,500,000$78,131,009$0$1,245,000$3,368,991
Left WingCenterRight Wing
PIT
Guentzel, Jake
$6,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 2
PIT
Tanev, Brandon
$3,500,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 5
PIT
McCann, Jared
$2,940,000
LW, C
RFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
PIT
Rust, Bryan
$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
$1,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
PIT
Blueger, Teddy
$750,000
C, LW
RFA - 1
PIT
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 2
PIT
Jankowski, Mark
$700,000
LW, C
RFA - 1
PIT
Lafferty, Sam
$750,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
PIT
Sceviour, Colton
$1,200,000
RW
UFA - 1
TOR
Robertson, Nicholas
$821,667
LW
RFA - 3
PIT
Angello, Anthony
$725,000
C, RW
RFA - 2
TOR
Hållander, Filip
$764,167
C
RFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
PIT
Matheson, Michael
$4,875,000
LD
UFA - 6
PIT
Letang, Kris
$7,250,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
PIT
Jarry, Tristan
$3,500,000
G
UFA - 3
PIT
Pettersson, Marcus
$4,025,175
LD
UFA - 5
PIT
Ceci, Cody
$1,250,000
RD
UFA - 1
PIT
DeSmith, Casey
$1,250,000
G
UFA - 2
PIT
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier
$863,333
LD
RFA - 2
PIT
Marino, John
$925,000
RD
UFA - 1
PIT
Friedman, Mark
$725,000
RD
RFA - 2
PIT
Ruhwedel, Chad
$700,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
PIT
Zucker, Jason
$5,500,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
$4,100,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Riikola, Juuso
$1,150,000
LD
UFA - 2
PIT
Rodrigues, Evan
$700,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
PIT
O'Connor, Drew
$925,000 ($0)
LW
RFA - 2
PIT
Larmi, Emil
$792,500 ($0)
G
RFA - 1
PIT
Weber, Yannick
$700,000 ($0)
RD
UFA - 1
PIT
Currie, Josh
$700,000 ($0)
RW, C
UFA - 1

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Feb 28 at 11:33
#1
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,245
Likes: 400
the leafs wouldn't do this, too much to give up for one player

plus JT has a NMC
sens65 liked this.
Feb 28 at 11:33
#2
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 1,182
No team will give up this much for 1 player. You'll have traded away your future for 3-4 years of contention. This is how you end up a decade long rebuild like the Red Wings.
Feb 28 at 11:35
#3
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 3,596
Likes: 1,287
Crosby declines
Feb 28 at 11:35
#4
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 703
Quoting: Byrr
No team will give up this much for 1 player. You'll have traded away your future for 3-4 years of contention. This is how you end up a decade long rebuild like the Red Wings.


The red wings won the cup though
Feb 28 at 11:35
#5
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,723
Likes: 2,359
unless that's Crosby stepping out of a Delorean fresh from 2007, no thanks from toronto
TheOtherAuston liked this.
Feb 28 at 11:36
#6
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 703
Quoting: Gmonwy
Crosby declines


To go to Toronto will Pittsburgh is rebuilding? I think he would agree.
Feb 28 at 11:36
#7
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 1,182
Quoting: sens65
The red wings won the cup though


and a cup isn't worth 10 years of **** for a franchise.
Feb 28 at 11:36
#8
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 703
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
unless that's Crosby stepping out of a Delorean fresh from 2007, no thanks from toronto


Crosby is a huge upgrade over Tavares right now and has playoff experience which John doesn't have.
Feb 28 at 11:37
#9
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 703
Quoting: Byrr
and a cup isn't worth 10 years of **** for a franchise.


I think Leafs fans would disagree with that
Feb 28 at 11:38
#10
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 3,102
Likes: 2,140
Too much for Crosby. We aren’t talking a young franchise C anymore.

Quoting: Byrr
No team will give up this much for 1 player. You'll have traded away your future for 3-4 years of contention. This is how you end up a decade long rebuild like the Red Wings.

The Red Wings contended for 25 years so not really a great example. I’d easily do a 10 year rebuild if it meant 25 years of success and 4 cups.
Feb 28 at 11:39
#11
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,388
Likes: 4,122
It's just delaying the inevitable for the penguins. I do think if he went to TOR they win a cup. Hands down, they win the cup. But for PIT, it just makes them a middle of the pack team longer with some late round picks and B prospects.
I'd rather they just crash hard, rebuild, and start the next chapter in the relative near future. 4-5 years of bad hockey will then be worth it.
sens65 liked this.
Feb 28 at 11:39
#12
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,723
Likes: 2,359
Quoting: sens65
Crosby is a huge upgrade over Tavares right now and has playoff experience which John doesn't have.


he really isnt. Not enough of an upgrade to get all of that on top of tavares and retain that much for 5 years. Crosby is 3 years older and has a concussion history, this would be terribly stupid for the Leafs to do
Feb 28 at 11:42
#13
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 703
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
he really isnt. Not enough of an upgrade to get all of that on top of tavares and retain that much for 5 years. Crosby is 3 years older and has a concussion history, this would be terribly stupid for the Leafs to do


Not really, none of the prospects in the trade except maybe Robertson are top prospects and the first-round picks are going to be in the 28-31 range so they would be giving up a lot less than it looks.
Feb 28 at 11:44
#14
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,427
Likes: 286
Quoting: sens65
Crosby is a huge upgrade over Tavares right now and has playoff experience which John doesn't have.


Yeah it's not just about Crosby and Tavares. It's about three top prospects and 2 firsts. No thanks
Feb 28 at 11:45
#15
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,723
Likes: 2,359
Quoting: sens65
Not really, none of the prospects in the trade except maybe Robertson are top prospects and the first-round picks are going to be in the 28-31 range so they would be giving up a lot less than it looks.


two first round picks, a top prospect in robertson a recent 1st rounder and probably a top prospect in Amirov, and two B level prospects ON TOP of John Tavares is not a good deal for the leafs.
This is the kind of return Crosby would get if the main piece going back was a guy like Kadri.
Feb 28 at 11:46
#16
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,723
Likes: 2,359
Quoting: TheOtherAuston
Yeah it's not just about Crosby and Tavares. It's about three top prospects and 2 firsts. No thanks


and retained salary. The Leafs get older, save no money and gut their prospect pool when they most need cheap tallent only to upgrade a little bit for maybe a year with Crosby over Tavares
TheOtherAuston liked this.
Feb 28 at 11:47
#17
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,388
Likes: 4,122
Quoting: BStinson
Too much for Crosby. We aren’t talking a young franchise C anymore.


The Red Wings contended for 25 years so not really a great example. I’d easily do a 10 year rebuild if it meant 25 years of success and 4 cups.


Quoting: Byrr
and a cup isn't worth 10 years of **** for a franchise.


Kind of absurd.
What are the leafs really giving up here.
OK JT but you are getting back Crosby. That's a win for TOR for at least a couple of years. Probably 3-4.
2 first round picks. Yeah those late picks aren't "the future" or TOR. Lets just stop that nonsense right now. 50/50 chance they even play 300 games.
Then a handful of B prospects. Again. not the "future".
As they giving something up yeah, but it's what they are getting for it.

The real issue with this for me is how does Crosby fit in that locker room? You got a group of young guys who are like we want to take the league over. It's why JT isn't much for leadership there. While they may all say nice things about Thornton I think he knows to stay in his own lane. That is their club, Thornton is riding their backs not the other way around. If there is a voice there that carries weight it's the 3 young guys who are putting the team on their back. Not the aging vet on league minimum salary.

So if what you want is leadership etc.. how does that really help. How does that dynamic work out. If I'm Crosby I'm like why bother. He owns his locker room. It's not a competition. He won't own the TOR locker room. That doesn't seem like the kind of thing a guy wants to walk into until they are ready to not be that guy.
Feb 28 at 11:49
#18
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,723
Likes: 2,359
Quoting: pharrow
Kind of absurd.
What are the leafs really giving up here.
OK JT but you are getting back Crosby. That's a win for TOR for at least a couple of years. Probably 3-4.
2 first round picks. Yeah those late picks aren't "the future" or TOR. Lets just stop that nonsense right now. 50/50 chance they even play 300 games.
Then a handful of B prospects. Again. not the "future".
As they giving something up yeah, but it's what they are getting for it.

The real issue with this for me is how does Crosby fit in that locker room? You got a group of young guys who are like we want to take the league over. It's why JT isn't much for leadership there. While they may all say nice things about Thornton I think he knows to stay in his own lane. That is their club, Thornton is riding their backs not the other way around. If there is a voice there that carries weight it's the 3 young guys who are putting the team on their back. Not the aging vet on league minimum salary.

So if what you want is leadership etc.. how does that really help. How does that dynamic work out. If I'm Crosby I'm like why bother. He owns his locker room. It's not a competition. He won't own the TOR locker room. That doesn't seem like the kind of thing a guy wants to walk into until they are ready to not be that guy.


Crosby has one less point than Tavares does this year.
Feb 28 at 11:50
#19
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 1,182
Quoting: pharrow
Kind of absurd.
What are the leafs really giving up here.
OK JT but you are getting back Crosby. That's a win for TOR for at least a couple of years. Probably 3-4.
2 first round picks. Yeah those late picks aren't "the future" or TOR. Lets just stop that nonsense right now. 50/50 chance they even play 300 games.
Then a handful of B prospects. Again. not the "future".
As they giving something up yeah, but it's what they are getting for it.


They are giving up all their top prospects and the picks used to replace them, including a top 25 prospect in the NHL in Robertson. This trade would put them in 4 years where Pittsburgh is right now. A team who doesn't have a real shot at the cup anymore and one of the worst prospect pools in the league. Sacrifice the future for a minimal gain now.
Feb 28 at 11:56
#20
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,276
Likes: 1,410
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Crosby has one less point than Tavares does this year.


Tavares played 3 more games....
Feb 28 at 12:00
#21
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,388
Likes: 4,122
Quoting: Byrr
They are giving up all their top prospects and the picks used to replace them, including a top 25 prospect in the NHL in Robertson. This trade would put them in 4 years where Pittsburgh is right now. A team who doesn't have a real shot at the cup anymore and one of the worst prospect pools in the league. Sacrifice the future for a minimal gain now.


listen to how absurd this sounds.
This is why people mock TOR fans. Robertson is a top 25 prospect in the NHL.... since F when? Because he's a leaf he has to be a top prospect in the NHL? His ass didn't even make WJC.
Stop over hyping guys. He's a 5'9 midget winger who will struggle to crave out a role because he'll never be a bottom 6 guy as he doesn't have the size and the competition to be a top 6 guy is fierce.
You can say what ever you want about the penguins team. Yeah they got holes. so does every team. But with no injuries they are in the hut with everyone else and anything can happen.
Believe me it was no shock they lost last year coming back after months off. But that has little to do with the talent on the team.
Truth is you get a 1C who can play literally every situation in hockey well. PK, Faceoffs, Dzone, Ozone, PP whatever it is.
you give up some mid to low round prospects and picks for it. It's not really the "future" of TOR. The "future" for TOR is already on the ice.
Feb 28 at 12:12
#22
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 1,182
Quoting: pharrow
listen to how absurd this sounds.
This is why people mock TOR fans. Robertson is a top 25 prospect in the NHL.... since F when? Because he's a leaf he has to be a top prospect in the NHL? His ass didn't even make WJC.


Since all the experts put him there? Sorry but I'm going to go with the authorities on the subject rather than some scrub on CapFriendly.
Feb 28 at 12:15
#23
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,388
Likes: 4,122
Quoting: Byrr
Since all the experts put him there? Sorry but I'm going to go with the authorities on the subject rather than some scrub on CapFriendly.


authorities LOL experts who go on tv and say things like "crosby's gonna get traded." with their "sources"

Dude one day when you become an actual adult, you'll realize they are just blowhards.

Here is some facts though. He didn't make the team. I'll go with the coach who was making the decision of who stays and who goes based off what they were doing on the ice. He didn't make the team.
But go on......he's a top 25 prospect you say tears of joy
Feb 28 at 12:19
#24
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 1,182
Quoting: pharrow
authorities LOL experts who go on tv and say things like "crosby's gonna get traded." with their "sources"

Dude one day when you become an actual adult, you'll realize they are just blowhards.

Here is some facts though. He didn't make the team. I'll go with the coach who was making the decision of who stays and who goes based off what they were doing on the ice. He didn't make the team.
But go on......he's a top 25 prospect you say tears of joy


Its funny when guys like you can't look in the mirror. Saying calling him a top 25 prospect is ridiculous even though everything disagrees with you and not being able to realize the only reason you don't think he's top 25 is because he's from the Leafs. Don't worry though, the guys who do this for a living and spend 1000x the amount of time on it than you do are obviously wrong.
Feb 28 at 12:23
#25
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,388
Likes: 4,122
Quoting: Byrr
Its funny when guys like you can't look in the mirror. Saying calling him a top 25 prospect is ridiculous even though everything disagrees with you and not being able to realize the only reason you don't think he's top 25 is because he's from the Leafs. Don't worry though, the guys who do this for a living and spend 1000x the amount of time on it than you do are obviously wrong.


lets be clear on it.
His being a leaf has everything to do with why YOU think he's a top 25 prospect. It has NOTHING to do with why I think he's not a top 25 prospect.
I can look at 2 WJC teams in CAN and USA and know, there are 25 players right there, who are better prospects than Nick.

I'm sorry you haven't figured that out, but those guys, are the best young players in the world. Period. And in those games, there were WAY more than 25 players there better than Nick.
 
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