Forums/Armchair-GM

Vilardi to TO

Created by: AkiLumme
Initial Creation Date: Feb 28, 2021
Published: Feb 28 at 12:46
Team: 2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
LA uses their surplus of young forwards to upgrade their D. Leafs get a young cost controlled centre. Who says no? Who adds or subtracts?
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Hyman, Zach5$4,500,000
Andersen, Frederik3$4,500,000
Bogosian, Zach1$1,000,000
Simmonds, Wayne1$1,500,000
Thornton, Joe1$750,000
Trades
TOR
  1. Vilardi, Gabriel
  2. MacDermid, Kurtis
LAK
  1. Liljegren, Timothy
  2. Dermott, Travis [RFA Rights]
TOR
    Seattle Expansion
    ARI
    1. Kerfoot, Alexander
    Retained Salary Transactions
    • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2021
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    2022
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    2023
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$81,500,000$81,085,617$0$850,000$414,383
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    TOR
    Thornton, Joe
    $750,000
    C, LW
    UFA
    TOR
    Matthews, Auston
    $11,640,250
    C
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Marner, Mitchell
    $10,903,000
    RW
    UFA - 4
    TOR
    Robertson, Nicholas
    $821,667
    LW
    RFA - 2
    TOR
    Tavares, John
    $11,000,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    TOR
    Nylander, William
    $6,962,366
    RW, LW
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Hyman, Zach
    $4,500,000
    LW, RW
    UFA
    LAK
    Vilardi, Gabriel
    $894,167
    C
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Mikheyev, Ilya
    $1,645,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    TOR
    Simmonds, Wayne
    $1,500,000
    RW, LW
    UFA
    TOR
    Engvall, Pierre
    $1,250,000
    LW, C
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Anderson, Joey
    $750,000
    RW
    RFA - 2
    TOR
    Brooks, Adam
    $725,000
    C
    RFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    TOR
    Rielly, Morgan
    $5,000,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    TOR
    Brodie, TJ
    $5,000,000
    RD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Andersen, Frederik
    $4,500,000
    G
    UFA
    TOR
    Muzzin, Jake
    $5,625,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Holl, Justin
    $2,000,000
    RD
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    TOR
    Campbell, Jack
    $1,650,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    TOR
    Sandin, Rasmus
    $894,167
    LD
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Bogosian, Zach
    $1,000,000
    RD
    UFA
    LAK
    MacDermid, Kurtis
    $875,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1

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    Feb 28 at 1:23
    #26
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 396
    Likes: 32
    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    Doughty, Roy, and Walker. If we go 4-4-1, add Clague to that list.


    What I've learned today: Kings fans have no idea what the true value of own their players are.
    Feb 28 at 1:25
    #27
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 396
    Likes: 32
    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    Mikey Anderson who already has a few Calder votes would definitely be playing 3LD if he were on the Leafs, but that's a useless argument.

    Given the fact that half the teams in the league don't have a good 2C, I'd say you're wrong about Vilardi.

    It doesn't matter though because as it stands the Kings are right outside a playoff spot and Vilardi is a big part in why we aren't at the bottom again.

    That argument that because the Kings are a bad team that's why he plays 2C instead of 3C doesn't really hold weight anymore.


    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    Mikey Anderson who already has a few Calder votes would definitely be playing 3LD if he were on the Leafs, but that's a useless argument.

    Given the fact that half the teams in the league don't have a good 2C, I'd say you're wrong about Vilardi.

    It doesn't matter though because as it stands the Kings are right outside a playoff spot and Vilardi is a big part in why we aren't at the bottom again.

    That argument that because the Kings are a bad team that's why he plays 2C instead of 3C doesn't really hold weight anymore.


    I get it, the past few years have been tough and any signs of light at the end of the tunnel will get you excited. But being outside the playoffs after 20 games means absolutely nothing. Kings are bottom of the league in expected goals percentage at 5v5 so I would be looking for them to come back to earth.
    Feb 28 at 1:28
    #28
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 1,168
    Likes: 617
    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    Why on God's green earth do you value Lehtonen so high?


    I’ve wanted that guy with the Kings for forever, he’s the top KHL defenseman and just needs to adjust to the NHL. Leafs don’t likely care for him so you can get him plus players.
    Feb 28 at 1:28
    #29
    Banned
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 9,721
    Likes: 2,801
    Quoting: AkiLumme
    What I've learned today: Kings fans have no idea what the true value of own their players are.


    Dermott has 1 poing in 17 games. Clague has 3 points in 9 games and other than 4 games last season, those are his first games. Given what Dermott has done in the 3 years he's been in the league, I'm sure the Kings would rather protect Clague.
    Feb 28 at 1:30
    #30
    Banned
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    Posts: 9,721
    Likes: 2,801
    Quoting: tryger
    I’ve wanted that guy with the Kings for forever, he’s the top KHL defenseman and just needs to adjust to the NHL. Leafs don’t likely care for him so you can get him plus players.


    At the cost of who though? I'm not comfortable giving up our prospects for a guy that has shown more signs of not being able to adapt to the NHL than the other way around.
    Feb 28 at 1:31
    #31
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 396
    Likes: 32
    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    Dermott has 1 poing in 17 games. Clague has 3 points in 9 games and other than 4 games last season, those are his first games. Given what Dermott has done in the 3 years he's been in the league, I'm sure the Kings would rather protect Clague.


    LOL Clague is only a year younger than Dermott and can't crack one of the worst D corps in the league. And when you start quoting points totals for defensemen over 9 games you've already lost the argument.
    Feb 28 at 1:31
    #32
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 396
    Likes: 32
    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    At the cost of who though? I'm not comfortable giving up our prospects for a guy that has shown more signs of not being able to adapt to the NHL than the other way around.


    Yeah Lethonen might fetch a mid-round pick. We agree on this much at least!
    ZiggyPalffy liked this.
    Feb 28 at 1:33
    #33
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 1,168
    Likes: 617
    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    At the cost of who though? I'm not comfortable giving up our prospects for a guy that has shown more signs of not being able to adapt to the NHL than the other way around.


    I mean this trade isn’t happening, Blake won’t trade away Vilardi, but Kupari for Lehtonen and Liljegren. I’d do it.
    Feb 28 at 1:35
    #34
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 396
    Likes: 32
    Quoting: tryger
    I mean this trade isn’t happening, Blake won’t trade away Vilardi, but Kupari for Lehtonen and Liljegren. I’d do it.


    DEAL!!!
    Feb 28 at 1:36
    #35
    Banned
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 9,721
    Likes: 2,801
    Quoting: AkiLumme
    I get it, the past few years have been tough and any signs of light at the end of the tunnel will get you excited. But being outside the playoffs after 20 games means absolutely nothing. Kings are bottom of the league in expected goals percentage at 5v5 so I would be looking for them to come back to earth.


    I can assure you, the Kings don't see it as the "light at the end of the tunnel" and don't worry I know the tactic of trying to convince fans their player isn't as good as he is so you can make the trade happen, but that doesn't work on most people here and definitely not Kings fans.

    Vilardi is a Calder candidate and is 2nd in votes in our division. Obviously Kaprizov is going to win it, but it shows you how the league sees Vilardi, not just the Kings fans.

    Vilardi is off limits no matter how bad you want to downplay his value.
    Feb 28 at 1:36
    #36
    Banned
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    Posts: 9,721
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    Quoting: tryger
    I mean this trade isn’t happening, Blake won’t trade away Vilardi, but Kupari for Lehtonen and Liljegren. I’d do it.


    We can probably get Lehtonen for a pick though lol

    I'd rather do Thomas tbh. Kupari was at the top of the AHL, not worth trading him at this time.
    Feb 28 at 1:38
    #37
    Banned
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 9,721
    Likes: 2,801
    Quoting: AkiLumme
    LOL Clague is only a year younger than Dermott and can't crack one of the worst D corps in the league. And when you start quoting points totals for defensemen over 9 games you've already lost the argument.


    I don't feel like I lost an argument. Kings don't want Dermott because no matter what, he's going to Seattle.
    Feb 28 at 1:39
    #38
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 396
    Likes: 32
    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    I can assure you, the Kings don't see it as the "light under the tunnel" and don't worry I know the tactic of trying to convince fans their player isn't as good as he is so you can make the trade happen, but that doesn't work on most people here and definitely not Kings fans.

    Vilardi is a Calder candidate and is 2nd in votes in our division. Obviously Kaprizov is going to win it, but it shows you how the league sees Vilardi, not just the Kings fans.

    Vilardi is off limits no matter how bad you want to downplay his value.


    Where are these Calder votes you're talking about? You realize the voting happens at the end of the year right?

    And also, I'm entirely open to the fact that the trade as proposed might not work. It's statements like "Kings say no to Vilardi for Sandin, Liljegren, and Dermott", or "the Kings would protect Clague over Dermott" that show you're over-valuing your players.
    Feb 28 at 1:39
    #39
    LongtimeLeafsufferer
    Joined: Jul 2015
    Posts: 36,227
    Likes: 10,266
    Don't see the Kings making that deal;.....but don't see the Leafs doing it either. Liljegren is against playing well in the AHL and expected to be full time Leaf next year and Dermot is full time NHL Dman
    Feb 28 at 1:41
    #40
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 1,168
    Likes: 617
    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    We can probably get Lehtonen for a pick though lol


    It’s true and I’m probably getting the Kings fleeced here, the Kings won’t trade Kupari until they play him and see how he looks, but I think Kupari will end up being the piece we move to address defense at some point.
    ZiggyPalffy liked this.
    Feb 28 at 1:43
    #41
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 396
    Likes: 32
    Quoting: palhal
    Don't see the Kings making that deal;.....but don't see the Leafs doing it either. Liljegren is against playing well in the AHL and expected to be full time Leaf next year and Dermot is full time NHL Dman


    So what you're saying is it's a reasonable trade, but fanbases over-value their own prospects. Got it!
    MapleLeafs4ever34 liked this.
    Feb 28 at 1:45
    #42
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 6,723
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    Quoting: AkiLumme
    That's just stupid


    look, only Leafs fans arnt allowed to want value for their players
    MapleLeafs4ever34 liked this.
    Feb 28 at 1:48
    #43
    Banned
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    Quoting: AkiLumme
    Where are these Calder votes you're talking about? You realize the voting happens at the end of the year right?

    And also, I'm entirely open to the fact that the trade as proposed might not work. It's statements like "Kings say no to Vilardi for Sandin, Liljegren, and Dermott", or "the Kings would protect Clague over Dermott" that show you're over-valuing your players.


    It was on the NHL App news feed the other day.

    Again, Dermott would be lost to Seattle because we can't protect him so it would basically be Liljegren and Sandin which is declined by LA. No team ever trades their 21 year old 2C for prospects. Ever. I don't care about value, it doesn't happen nor should it. Dermott has been in the NHL on one of the best offensive teams in the league and hasn't done anything worth protecting him over Clague. Clague played 18-20 mins a game and did great, he's not worth losing so we can protect Dermott.
    Feb 28 at 1:49
    #44
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    Quoting: tryger
    It’s true and I’m probably getting the Kings fleeced here, the Kings won’t trade Kupari until they play him and see how he looks, but I think Kupari will end up being the piece we move to address defense at some point.


    Still if we can trade Akil Thomas to address those needs, we should do that first.
    Feb 28 at 1:58
    #45
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 396
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    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    It was on the NHL App news feed the other day.

    Again, Dermott would be lost to Seattle because we can't protect him so it would basically be Liljegren and Sandin which is declined by LA. No team ever trades their 21 year old 2C for prospects. Ever. I don't care about value, it doesn't happen nor should it. Dermott has been in the NHL on one of the best offensive teams in the league and hasn't done anything worth protecting him over Clague. Clague played 18-20 mins a game and did great, he's not worth losing so we can protect Dermott.


    One more time because I have nothing better to do: Kale Clague is almost 23 years old and is currently playing in the AHL. Travis Dermott is 24 years old and has played 175 games on a far superior team. And he has consistently won the minutes he's been given by any reasonable metric.
    Feb 28 at 2:03
    #46
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    Quoting: AkiLumme
    One more time because I have nothing better to do: Kale Clague is almost 23 years old and is currently playing in the AHL. Travis Dermott is 24 years old and has played 175 games on a far superior team. And he has consistently won the minutes he's been given by any reasonable metric.


    I don't care lol we have Anderson and Bjornfot, Dermott will be playing 3LD in LA too. Clague is a late bloomer, we might as well see what we have in him once he's full developed than protect a mediocre 3rd pair LD that has probably reached his potential.

    I don't care what you say kid, Kings don't want Dermott!
    Feb 28 at 2:04
    #47
    Meh
    Joined: Jul 2020
    Posts: 848
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    Edited Feb 28 at 2:16
    Quoting: tryger
    The problem here is (1) Vilardi has already graduated and Sandin has not (2) That Sandin couldn’t beat out Dermott and Lehtonen for more ice time this season tells me he’s not ready yet (3) Vilardi is already a Calder candidate and eating real minutes at the NHL than Sandin (4) could you please show the prospect ranking list that has Vilardi and Sandin close? They have always been in different draft tiers.


    Pronman's list of best under-23-year-old players (this includes both NHL players and prospects) from January 8th had:

    Sandin #71 in his high-end/very good bubble tier (top-line or pairing and second-line or pairing bubble)
    Vilardi #91 in his very good player tier (second line forward/second pairing D)

    However, I would not trade Vilardi one-for-one if I were LA, despite LA having tons of C prospect depth with Byfield, Turcotte, Kupari, Madden, and despite Sandin actually fitting what Friedman said Blake is looking for, for the simple reason that Vilardi is a big C who is already filling a regular NHL role who they have no reason to trade.

    Quote:
    I don’t want Sandin if I’m Blake, I want Lehtonen, Vilardi is the Kings best graduated prospect if a team wants him, it won’t be cheap.


    Lehtonen is 27. Friedman said Blake is looking for a 25-or younger dynamic LHD.

    Incidentally, saying that Sandin couldn't beat out Dermott or Lehtonen for ice time is misleading. Keefe made clear in camp that there was no competition for roster spots, so beating someone out was not possible (the view at The Athletic was that Sandin was far better than either Dermott or Lehtonen in the sole pre-season blue vs white game, and having watched the game it seemed really clear that Sandin easily better). Dermott requiring waivers on a team with zero cap space meant that there was no chance he was going to get moved off the roster. Lehtonen being an over-seas free agent who Toronto promised a roster spot to on a team that is obsessed with keeping that overseas free agent pipeline open no matter what, meant that there was no possibility the Leafs' were going to play Sandin over Lehtonen (despite the latter rarely getting into games because even though he is strong offensively Lehtonen can't play defense at all and his defensive numbers are arguably the worst the league).
    AkiLumme liked this.
    Feb 28 at 2:12
    #48
    Meh
    Joined: Jul 2020
    Posts: 848
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    Quoting: AkiLumme
    I'm not sure there's a single LD on the Kings that would crack the Leafs lineup.


    Cracking the Leafs' D lineup is not based on merit and is instead based on waivers and promising positions to free agents, especially over-seas free agents, so it is kind of irrelevant - none of Anderson, Bjornfot or Clague could have won a position even if they were playing like Bobby Orr. Maata would be given a spot though.
    Feb 28 at 2:13
    #49
    LongtimeLeafsufferer
    Joined: Jul 2015
    Posts: 36,227
    Likes: 10,266
    Quoting: AkiLumme
    So what you're saying is it's a reasonable trade, but fanbases over-value their own prospects. Got it!


    Not quite. Dermott is a NHL Dman and it looks like Liljegren is can be a long term RHD as Leaf. And Villardi is playing in the NHL. So I don't think fan bases are over valuing their prospects, it's just that the trade although maybe fair isn't a fit.
    KINGS67 liked this.
    Feb 28 at 2:15
    #50
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 396
    Likes: 32
    Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
    I don't care lol we have Anderson and Bjornfot, Dermott will be playing 3LD in LA too. Clague is a late bloomer, we might as well see what we have in him once he's full developed than protect a mediocre 3rd pair LD that has probably reached his potential.

    I don't care what you say kid, Kings don't want Dermott!


    Alright relax sweetheart. Just trying to provide some education here as a public service.
     
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