Forums/Armchair-GM

Hall-in with Kuznechkin

Created by: Eli
Initial Creation Date: Mar 2, 2021
Published: Mar 2 at 2:54
Team: 2020-21 New York Rangers
Team Explanation
Eichel is not going anywhere at a price that makes sense. Next idea.

How much of a favorite is this team to win this year's Stanley Cup? Is it worth it, given how slowly a couple of the Rangers' prospects have been developing? If not, what balances things out?
Trades
NYR
  1. Ovechkin, Alex ($4,250,000 retained)
  2. LaDue, Paul
  3. Kuznetsov, Evgeny
WSH
  1. Deangelo, Anthony
  2. Smith, Brendan
  3. Chytil, Filip
  4. Schneider, Braden [Reserve List]
  5. Lafrenière, Alexis
  6. 2021 1st round pick (NYR)
NYR
  1. Dermott, Travis
  2. Galchenyuk, Alex
TOR
  1. 2021 3rd round pick (BUF)
  2. 2023 7th round pick (NYR)
NYR
  1. Sbisa, Luca
NSH
  1. 2021 7th round pick (NYR)
NYR
  1. Hall, Taylor ($4,000,000 retained)
BUF
  1. Buchnevich, Pavel
  2. Johnson, Jack
  3. 2022 1st round pick (NYR)
NYR
  1. Chara, Zdeno
Additional Details:
He signed cheap to get a shot at the title with Ovechkin, I think.
WSH
    include, above.
    Buyouts
    • Kevin Shattenkirk: $6,083,333
    • Henrik Lundqvist: $5,500,000
    • Dan Girardi: $1,111,111
    • Ryan Spooner: $300,000
    • Brad Richards: $0
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2021
    NYR
    NYR
    OTT
    NYR
    NYR
    2022
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    2023
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    NYR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$81,500,000$77,208,221$0$8,142,500$4,291,779
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    WSH
    Ovechkin, Alex
    $5,288,462
    LW, RW
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    WSH
    Kuznetsov, Evgeny
    $7,800,000
    C
    NTC
    UFA - 5
    NYR
    Kravtsov, Vitali
    $925,000
    RW
    RFA - 2
    NYR
    Panarin, Artemi
    $11,642,857
    LW
    NMC
    UFA - 6
    NYR
    Strome, Ryan
    $4,500,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 2
    NYR
    Kreider, Chris
    $6,500,000
    LW
    NMC
    UFA - 7
    NYR
    Zibanejad, Mika
    $5,350,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 2
    NYR
    Kakko, Kaapo
    $925,000
    RW
    RFA - 2
    NYR
    Lemieux, Brendan
    $1,550,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 2
    NYR
    Howden, Brett
    $863,333
    C
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Galchenyuk, Alex
    $1,050,000
    LW, C, RW
    UFA - 1
    NYR
    Rooney, Kevin
    $750,000
    RW, C
    UFA - 2
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    NYR
    Lindgren, Ryan
    $925,000
    LD
    RFA - 1
    NYR
    Fox, Adam
    $925,000
    RD
    RFA - 2
    NYR
    Georgiev, Alexandar
    $2,425,000
    G
    RFA - 2
    WSH
    Chara, Zdeno
    $795,000
    LD
    NMC
    UFA - 1
    WSH
    LaDue, Paul
    $700,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    NYR
    Shesterkin, Igor
    $925,000
    G
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Dermott, Travis
    $874,125
    LD
    RFA - 1
    NYR
    Raddysh, Darren
    $700,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    NSH
    Sbisa, Luca
    $800,000
    LD
    UFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    NYR
    Trouba, Jacob
    $8,000,000
    RD
    NMC
    UFA - 6
    Taxi Squad
    NYR
    Kinkaid, Keith
    $825,000 ($0)
    G
    UFA - 2
    NYR
    Di Giuseppe, Phillip
    $700,000 ($0)
    LW
    UFA - 1
    NYR
    Gauthier, Julien
    $863,333 ($0)
    RW
    RFA - 1
    NYR
    Brodzinski, Jonny
    $700,000 ($0)
    C
    UFA - 1

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    Mar 2 at 3:02
    #1
    Joined: Jul 2019
    Posts: 2,578
    Likes: 1,215
    You'd have to give more to get Dermott out of Toronto. He's a young, solid 3rd pairing option who has looked at times like he will grow into a 2nd pairing. Beyond that, being bait for Seattle in a spot that the Leafs can easily replace is worth more to the team than a 3rd round pick.

    If you wanted one of Toronto's 3rd pairing left d for a 3rd round pick, the more realistic option is Lehtonen as he's not an RFA.
    Eli liked this.
    Mar 2 at 3:09
    #2
    Thread Starter
    Who adds what?
    Joined: Jul 2017
    Posts: 12,571
    Likes: 2,430
    Quoting: Byrr
    You'd have to give more to get Dermott out of Toronto. He's a young, solid 3rd pairing option who has looked at times like he will grow into a 2nd pairing. Beyond that, being bait for Seattle in a spot that the Leafs can easily replace is worth more to the team than a 3rd round pick.

    If you wanted one of Toronto's 3rd pairing left d for a 3rd round pick, the more realistic option is Lehtonen as he's not an RFA.


    Lehtonen works. He had a strong start. The Rangers' blue line really gets fixed in two to four more weeks, whenever Trouba gets back.
    Mar 2 at 3:26
    #3
    What in tarnation
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 18,714
    Likes: 9,986
    Would rather keep my first overall pick from last year and try to sign Ovie from free agency for free.

    It's about as unlikely as Ovechkin waiving his NTC.
    Radu47 and DoubleADoubleK liked this.
    Mar 2 at 3:32
    #4
    Joined: Nov 2019
    Posts: 42
    Likes: 5
    Props for creativity, but Caps aren't trading Ovie.
    Mar 2 at 3:43
    #5
    Thread Starter
    Who adds what?
    Joined: Jul 2017
    Posts: 12,571
    Likes: 2,430
    Quoting: justaBoss
    Would rather keep my first overall pick from last year and try to sign Ovie from free agency for free.

    It's about as unlikely as Ovechkin waiving his NTC.


    Ovechkin's m-NTC has a secret list of eight teams he can be traded to. So as casual fans without access, there's no reason not to speculate on what he'd be worth to any team that (a) is in a big city (b) looked like a playoff team in the offseason, and/or (c) has another Russian superstar Ovechkin might want to try playing with.

    If the Rangers take out their second-highest rookie scorer (and 30th in the NHL), what would they put in, instead? It looks like a lot of pieces, but you figure there's a 1st for max retention on Ovechkin, Schneider (late 1st, too soon to tell if he's any good) for dumping two bad contracts, Chytil for Vrana, and Lafreniere for Ovechkin. You think WSH goes lower than that? Read this chart carefully: http://www.nhl.com/ice/rookies.htm?fetchKey=20212ALLSRSAll&sort=points&viewName=summary and then tell me what NYR adds instead.
    Mar 2 at 3:55
    #6
    Go Preds
    Joined: Jun 2016
    Posts: 765
    Likes: 291
    Nashville accepts
    Eli liked this.
    Mar 2 at 3:55
    #7
    What in tarnation
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 18,714
    Likes: 9,986
    Quoting: Eli
    Ovechkin's m-NTC has a secret list of eight teams he can be traded to. So as casual fans without access, there's no reason not to speculate on what he'd be worth to any team that (a) is in a big city (b) looked like a playoff team in the offseason, and/or (c) has another Russian superstar Ovechkin might want to try playing with.

    If the Rangers take out their second-highest rookie scorer (and 30th in the NHL), what would they put in, instead? It looks like a lot of pieces, but you figure there's a 1st for max retention on Ovechkin, Schneider (late 1st, too soon to tell if he's any good) for dumping two bad contracts, Chytil for Vrana, and Lafreniere for Ovechkin. You think WSH goes lower than that? Read this chart carefully: http://www.nhl.com/ice/rookies.htm?fetchKey=20212ALLSRSAll&sort=points&viewName=summary and then tell me what NYR adds instead.


    Seeing that Rangers aren't exactly a playoff team at the moment, and their biggest weakness is their center, spending overly much their youngsters on a 35 year old pending UFA winger is probably the stupidest thing possible they could do.

    They have no reason to go after the guy, nor have WSH any reason to trade Ovechkin.
    DoubleADoubleK liked this.
    Mar 2 at 5:15
    #8
    Thread Starter
    Who adds what?
    Joined: Jul 2017
    Posts: 12,571
    Likes: 2,430
    Some people like to argue. They'll see you trade some wing prospects for an all-star center with a recent 80 point season, plus a rental on a wing, and tell you it's bad because the team needs help at center. The above team has depth at center. That's what makes it a contender.
    Mar 2 at 7:33
    #9
    Blues GM v4
    Joined: Nov 2016
    Posts: 8,552
    Likes: 2,798
    How are you a Caps fan
    Eli liked this.
    Mar 2 at 9:22
    #10
    Thread Starter
    Who adds what?
    Joined: Jul 2017
    Posts: 12,571
    Likes: 2,430
    Quoting: krakowitz
    How are you a Caps fan


    Strategery.
    Mar 3 at 7:45
    #11
    Thread Starter
    Who adds what?
    Joined: Jul 2017
    Posts: 12,571
    Likes: 2,430
    Quoting: justaBoss
    Seeing that Rangers aren't exactly a playoff team at the moment, and their biggest weakness is their center, spending overly much their youngsters on a 35 year old pending UFA winger is probably the stupidest thing possible they could do.

    They have no reason to go after the guy, nor have WSH any reason to trade Ovechkin.


    The above Rangers have two #2 centers and a bunch of #4 centers. Adding a #1C in Kuznetsov gives them good center depth. Adding Ovechkin and Hall to a roster that already has Panarin, Kakko, and Kreider gives them insanely good wing depth. Their goalies are fine. Their blue line needs life support until Trouba gets back, but that's easy. Read the above roster, and not just the trades, and tell me a slumping, beat-up Pit or an Ovechkinless WSH can make the playoffs this year ahead of them? They're in. They're contenders.

    If the Rangers keep what they have, they'll draft 11th overall, accidentally passing Vancouver, NSH, and Ari as those teams sell off pieces and NYR doesn't. Is that worth throwing away a chance at the Cup?

    This is a terrible trade for the Caps, but it gets them three recent 1st round picks who you can't quite call busts yet, and one 1st in the upcoming draft. Compared to the possibility of losing Ovechkin as a UFA, it's not great, but it's something.
    Mar 4 at 1:07
    #12
    What in tarnation
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 18,714
    Likes: 9,986
    Quoting: Eli
    The above Rangers have two #2 centers and a bunch of #4 centers. Adding a #1C in Kuznetsov gives them good center depth. Adding Ovechkin and Hall to a roster that already has Panarin, Kakko, and Kreider gives them insanely good wing depth. Their goalies are fine. Their blue line needs life support until Trouba gets back, but that's easy. Read the above roster, and not just the trades, and tell me a slumping, beat-up Pit or an Ovechkinless WSH can make the playoffs this year ahead of them? They're in. They're contenders.

    If the Rangers keep what they have, they'll draft 11th overall, accidentally passing Vancouver, NSH, and Ari as those teams sell off pieces and NYR doesn't. Is that worth throwing away a chance at the Cup?

    This is a terrible trade for the Caps, but it gets them three recent 1st round picks who you can't quite call busts yet, and one 1st in the upcoming draft. Compared to the possibility of losing Ovechkin as a UFA, it's not great, but it's something.


    Terrible trade for Caps my ass. If it's so bad, why even suggest it? Because long-term Caps are winning so much here it isn't even fun.

    It reminds me of the Forsberg for Erat trade, with the multiplier of 10.

    Let WSH keep their Russians. NYR will keep their youth and build through it slowly. They have no hurry to succeed.
    Mar 4 at 6:37
    #13
    Thread Starter
    Who adds what?
    Joined: Jul 2017
    Posts: 12,571
    Likes: 2,430
    Quoting: justaBoss
    Terrible trade for Caps my ass. If it's so bad, why even suggest it? Because long-term Caps are winning so much here it isn't even fun.

    It reminds me of the Forsberg for Erat trade, with the multiplier of 10.

    Let WSH keep their Russians. NYR will keep their youth and build through it slowly. They have no hurry to succeed.


    Cool. WSH will just contend this year, and NYR can hope that Lafreniere is actually good. Honestly, if you don't like Russians, swap out Laf for Kravtsov, who seems more on track right now to be good at pro hockey. Writing people off because of their nationality is dumb.

    Erat was never good, and got his numbers blown up by getting huge minutes on a bad team. If you want a parallel, look at how some people still think Deangelo has positive value. smile
    Mar 4 at 7:54
    #14
    What in tarnation
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 18,714
    Likes: 9,986
    Quoting: Eli
    Cool. WSH will just contend this year, and NYR can hope that Lafreniere is actually good. Honestly, if you don't like Russians, swap out Laf for Kravtsov, who seems more on track right now to be good at pro hockey. Writing people off because of their nationality is dumb.

    Erat was never good, and got his numbers blown up by getting huge minutes on a bad team. If you want a parallel, look at how some people still think Deangelo has positive value. smile


    That won't be an issue. Laffy will turn out just great.

    I have nothing against Russians, the players you offered to NYR just happened to be from there. Well, aside from LaDue, but he brings nothing to the exchange.
    Mar 4 at 8:07
    #15
    Thread Starter
    Who adds what?
    Joined: Jul 2017
    Posts: 12,571
    Likes: 2,430
    Quoting: justaBoss
    That won't be an issue. Laffy will turn out just great.

    I have nothing against Russians, the players you offered to NYR just happened to be from there. Well, aside from LaDue, but he brings nothing to the exchange.


    Chara's in there, too, if you keep reading. And he's having a pretty good year. You can add to either side, or change what you want, but when this board just has people saying, "no. bad. wrong," all the time, we don't make anything happen, and it isn't as fun. Can you tell me what you think a rental of last year's Richard trophy winner should cost, or what five years of a #1C who's off to a slow start is worth? Or what Chara at league minimum is worth? Ladue, I know, isn't much. But I think Ovechkin is worth an A+ prospect, which Lafreniere might or might not still be, and then retaining half on his contract is worth another late 1st, which is where Schneider comes in. Five years of Kuznetsov is only worth a prospect and a late 1st, this week, because he had a slow start to this year. Then I have the Caps just throwing in Chara, and taking two bad contracts for free. Or do you still give Deangelo positive trade value after he physically attacked a teammate, following a game where he was individually -5?
    Mar 4 at 9:06
    #16
    What in tarnation
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 18,714
    Likes: 9,986
    Quoting: Eli
    Chara's in there, too, if you keep reading. And he's having a pretty good year. You can add to either side, or change what you want, but when this board just has people saying, "no. bad. wrong," all the time, we don't make anything happen, and it isn't as fun. Can you tell me what you think a rental of last year's Richard trophy winner should cost, or what five years of a #1C who's off to a slow start is worth? Or what Chara at league minimum is worth? Ladue, I know, isn't much. But I think Ovechkin is worth an A+ prospect, which Lafreniere might or might not still be, and then retaining half on his contract is worth another late 1st, which is where Schneider comes in. Five years of Kuznetsov is only worth a prospect and a late 1st, this week, because he had a slow start to this year. Then I have the Caps just throwing in Chara, and taking two bad contracts for free. Or do you still give Deangelo positive trade value after he physically attacked a teammate, following a game where he was individually -5?


    Ovechkin's value to WSH is more than anything any team would be willing to give for the guy. WSH wants at least an A+ prospect, but no team is willing to give this much for a 36 year old pending UFA winger who's numbers have declined from what they were year ago. I don't think there's any reasonable comparable to this, but maybe the Martin St. Louis trade from Tampa to Rangers, but with a bit less coming from NYR since it's only a one year matter. It's the only recent enough example of a top level player being traded at such age. In this case, maybe Ovie for Kreider+Schneider+2022+1st.

    Kuznetsov is the most valuable piece from WSH here imo due to term, position and contract. But I wouldn't move Laffy for the guy. Maybe Strome+Robertson+1st+2nd.

    Chara's 43 year old bottom pair D with a full NMC. He won't be moving, and even if he did, he'd probably net a 3rd like any depth D.

    But as said in the first place, NYR is not in position to make such exchange. And neither is WSH. So I don't really get the point in these teams moving assets.

    And yes, if I'm WSH I'd absolutely decline a Kuzy+Ovie for Kreider+Strome+Schneider+Robertson+1st+1st+2nd exchange, but that's around apt value if you ask me.

    Deangelo and Smith suck, but NYR wouldn't involve them in the trade anyhow. Deangelo will be bought out at summer and Smith is walking, probably both of them taking the next step of their careers in KHL.
    Mar 4 at 9:16
    #17
    Thread Starter
    Who adds what?
    Joined: Jul 2017
    Posts: 12,571
    Likes: 2,430
    Quoting: justaBoss
    Ovechkin's value to WSH is more than anything any team would be willing to give for the guy. WSH wants at least an A+ prospect, but no team is willing to give this much for a 36 year old pending UFA winger who's numbers have declined from what they were year ago. I don't think there's any reasonable comparable to this, but maybe the Martin St. Louis trade from Tampa to Rangers, but with a bit less coming from NYR since it's only a one year matter. It's the only recent enough example of a top level player being traded at such age. In this case, maybe Ovie for Kreider+Schneider+2022+1st.

    Kuznetsov is the most valuable piece from WSH here imo due to term, position and contract. But I wouldn't move Laffy for the guy. Maybe Strome+Robertson+1st+2nd.

    Chara's 43 year old bottom pair D with a full NMC. He won't be moving, and even if he did, he'd probably net a 3rd like any depth D.

    But as said in the first place, NYR is not in position to make such exchange. And neither is WSH. So I don't really get the point in these teams moving assets.

    And yes, if I'm WSH I'd absolutely decline a Kuzy+Ovie for Kreider+Strome+Schneider+Robertson+1st+1st+2nd exchange, but that's around apt value if you ask me.

    Deangelo and Smith suck, but NYR wouldn't involve them in the trade anyhow. Deangelo will be bought out at summer and Smith is walking, probably both of them taking the next step of their careers in KHL.


    I don't hate it. A top six of Vrana-Backstrom-Wilson, Kreider-Strome-Oshie still pushes for this year's playoffs, though, so it's harder for the Rangers to be sure they get a spot, to say nothing of having one less great forward line when they get there. With my trade, they're in, and they're heavily favored to win. I can see how, as a Stars fan, that would bother you. smile
    Mar 4 at 9:19
    #18
    What in tarnation
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 18,714
    Likes: 9,986
    Quoting: Eli
    I don't hate it. A top six of Vrana-Backstrom-Wilson, Kreider-Strome-Oshie still pushes for this year's playoffs, though, so it's harder for the Rangers to be sure they get a spot, to say nothing of having one less great forward line when they get there. With my trade, they're in, and they're heavily favored to win. I can see how, as a Stars fan, that would bother you. smile


    Rangers are still on the retooling process. They made it clear a while back that they will be rebuilding, and the rebuild's far from complete.

    From DAL fan's pov, this trade means nothing to me. We suck so bad right now that we're not making the playoffs. In terms of their roster, a complete sh*tshow like CHI is better than us. A retool of our own is looming in the future.
    Mar 4 at 9:24
    #19
    Thread Starter
    Who adds what?
    Joined: Jul 2017
    Posts: 12,571
    Likes: 2,430
    Quoting: justaBoss
    Rangers are still on the retooling process. They made it clear a while back that they will be rebuilding, and the rebuild's far from complete.

    From DAL fan's pov, this trade means nothing to me. We suck so bad right now that we're not making the playoffs. In terms of their roster, a complete sh*tshow like CHI is better than us. A retool of our own is looming in the future.


    You think so? I counted Dallas out too early a few years ago, and learned they can be a pretty good team in the second half of the season. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're back in the Finals.
    Mar 4 at 9:40
    #20
    What in tarnation
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 18,714
    Likes: 9,986
    Quoting: Eli
    You think so? I counted Dallas out too early a few years ago, and learned they can be a pretty good team in the second half of the season. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're back in the Finals.


    I certainly hope so, but with the injuries piling up at our top forwards added to the fact that we've struggled with scoring for years now topped with this division being defensively so tough, I'm not optimistic. Plus we tend to choke out against weaklings like CHI or DET. Props to Hawks honestly, they've made through tough opponents with good chemistry and their top players performing admirably well, but their roster is still comparably very, very thin.

    Something big would need to happen for Dallas to break this losing streak. Our last 10 games are like 1-6-3 or something. Nothing to be proud about.
    Eli liked this.
    Mar 4 at 10:16
    #21
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 1,972
    Likes: 897
    No one commented on the trade with Buffalo.
    I would have expected either a Ranger or Sabre fan would say something.
    That trade would actually help Buffalo this year.
    Buchnevich, would be a great addition to the RW and PK
    Johnson, Dahlin is Buffalo's only LHD.
    2022 1st, always nice to have.
    If this was offered, and I was the Sabre GM, I would take it.
    Skinner Eichel Reinhart
    Olofsson Staal Cozens
    Mittelstadt Lazar Buchnevich
    Signing Hall to $8,000,000 was a huge error.
    Skinner, Hall, Olofsson someone had to be the odd man out. Krueger picked Skinner.
    Eli, GMTD and Bostonbruins liked this.
    Mar 4 at 10:33
    #22
    Thread Starter
    Who adds what?
    Joined: Jul 2017
    Posts: 12,571
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    Quoting: gretzkyghosts
    No one commented on the trade with Buffalo.
    I would have expected either a Ranger or Sabre fan would say something.
    That trade would actually help Buffalo this year.
    Buchnevich, would be a great addition to the RW and PK
    Johnson, Dahlin is Buffalo's only LHD.
    2022 1st, always nice to have.
    If this was offered, and I was the Sabre GM, I would take it.
    Skinner Eichel Reinhart
    Olofsson Staal Cozens
    Mittelstadt Lazar Buchnevich
    Signing Hall to $8,000,000 was a huge error.
    Skinner, Hall, Olofsson someone had to be the odd man out. Krueger picked Skinner.


    Thanks. Yeah, Johnson's too slow to do much at evens, but he can also help out on PK if you don't ask him to leave the zone. With McCabe out, I thought he might be a good temporary fix.
    gretzkyghosts and GMTD liked this.
     
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