Forums/Armchair-GM

WHY NOT

Created by: tyler19
Initial Creation Date: Mar. 26, 2021
Published: Mar. 26, 2021
Team: 2020-21 Toronto Maple Leafs
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Hart, Carter
PHI
  1. Andersen, Frederik
  2. Robertson, Nicholas
  3. 2021 1st round pick (TOR)
2.
TOR
  1. Meier, Timo ($2,000,000 retained)
SJS
  1. Amirov, Rodion [Reserve List]
  2. Mikheyev, Ilya
  3. 2021 2nd round pick (TOR)
  4. 2021 4th round pick (TOR)
  5. 2022 2nd round pick (TOR)
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2022
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Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2023
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$79,235,574$0$82,500$2,264,426
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Matthews, Auston
$11,640,250
C
UFA - 4
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Marner, Mitchell
$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 5
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Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Engvall, Pierre
$1,250,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Simmonds, Wayne
$1,500,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
Meier, Timo
$4,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Thornton, Joe
$700,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Galchenyuk, Alex
$1,050,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Sabourin, Scott
$700,000
RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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Muzzin, Jake
$5,625,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Brodie, TJ
$5,000,000
LD/RD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
Hart, Carter
$730,833
G
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Holl, Justin
$2,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Campbell, Jack
$1,650,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Dermott, Travis
$874,125
LD/RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Bogosian, Zach
$1,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Barabanov, Alexander
$925,000 ($0)
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Scott, Ian
$805,833 ($0)
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Hollowell, Mac
$799,766 ($0)
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Rubins, Kristians
$785,000 ($0)
LD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
Hutchinson, Michael
$725,000 ($0)
G
UFA - 2

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Mar. 26, 2021 at 8:39 a.m.
#1
NCHockeyYT
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philly and sj decline
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Mar. 26, 2021 at 8:42 a.m.
#2
Cmon Kyle
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Because Hart hasn’t been good this year either and Philly would say no.

San Jose wouldn’t touch that with a 10 foot pole.

That’s why not.
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Mar. 26, 2021 at 8:42 a.m.
#3
You know nothing JS
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BECAUSE🙄
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Mar. 26, 2021 at 8:42 a.m.
#4
Biased Opinion
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Just going to leave this here

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/432495?post_id=2217185
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Mar. 26, 2021 at 8:46 a.m.
#5
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tyler19
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Quoting: ZachHymanForTheHart
Because Hart hasn’t been good this year either and Philly would say no.

San Jose wouldn’t touch that with a 10 foot pole.

That’s why not.


san jose gets a 1st, three 2nds and a 4th, im pretty sure thats whatt rebuilding teams like
Mar. 26, 2021 at 8:46 a.m.
#6
Cmon Kyle
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Quoting: tyler19
san jose gets a 1st, three 2nds and a 4th, im pretty sure thats whatt rebuilding teams like


you changed it .. 🤦‍♂️
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Mar. 26, 2021 at 8:47 a.m.
#7
Rater of Value
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Because Flyers and Sharks need Hart and Meier respectively more than what they're offered here.

Don't get me wrong, Hart has been atrocious this year, but everyone knows his potential. He's only 22, and projected to become the next Carey Price of this league.
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Mar. 26, 2021 at 9:14 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: tyler19
san jose gets a 1st, three 2nds and a 4th, im pretty sure thats whatt rebuilding teams like


And TO gets a guy who's QO is 10 mil no thanks
Mar. 26, 2021 at 9:27 a.m.
#9
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I rather be caught dead than in blue and white.
Mar. 26, 2021 at 9:33 a.m.
#10
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That's a hard no from the FLyers lol
Mar. 26, 2021 at 9:49 a.m.
#11
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tyler19
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
And TO gets a guy who's QO is 10 mil no thanks


8 mil
Mar. 26, 2021 at 9:51 a.m.
#12
torontos finest
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Quoting: carterhart
I rather be caught dead than in blue and white.


You looked dead in net last night.
Mar. 26, 2021 at 9:52 a.m.
#13
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It will take you way more to rob a team of its future.
Mar. 26, 2021 at 10:07 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: tyler19
8 mil


It's 10 because it was signed under the former CBA.

With the current one it would be 8.
Mar. 26, 2021 at 10:09 a.m.
#15
torontos finest
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Oops, I dropped this:

f4bGw7o.jpg
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Mar. 26, 2021 at 10:09 a.m.
#16
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tyler19
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Quoting: justaBoss
It's 10 because it was signed under the former CBA.

With the current one it would be 8.


they retained salary in this trade, it would be 8
Mar. 26, 2021 at 10:18 a.m.
#17
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Quoting: tyler19
they retained salary in this trade, it would be 8


The retention naturally wouldn't affect the QO. That contract where the retention is part of would already be expired by that point.
Mar. 26, 2021 at 11:30 a.m.
#18
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Quoting: tyler19
8 mil


He makes 10 mill in his final season of this contract. Making his QO 10 million. He's a 60 point winger who will need 10 million to qualify. He's not worth it.
Mar. 26, 2021 at 11:30 a.m.
#19
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
And TO gets a guy who's QO is 10 mil no thanks


Hey look. Another doofus who doesn't understand how QO's and salaries work. Meier's deal is strictly structured to ensure a long-term deal or UFA at the expiry rather than being an RFA again. That is literally the extent of it. No one is paying him a $10 million QO. It is a non-factor. I don't get how people posting on a site that is literally all about contracts and the cap can be so stupid as it relates to the topic.
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Mar. 26, 2021 at 11:36 a.m.
#20
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Quoting: SJS2212
Hey look. Another doofus who doesn't understand how QO's and salaries work. Meier's deal is strictly structured to ensure a long-term deal or UFA at the expiry rather than being an RFA again. That is literally the extent of it. No one is paying him a $10 million QO. It is a non-factor. I don't get how people posting on a site that is literally all about contracts and the cap can be so stupid as it relates to the topic.


So what happens on his negotiation then smart guy? He just becomes UFA and walks somewhere else? Because why would he sign for anything less than his QO? Or at least close to it. On top of that, why are you insulting me for pointing out how stupid the contract is. A 50-60 point winger making 10 million is ridiculous, sure you can try to sign him for less on a long term deal but where is the incentive for him to do so? If San Jose sucks, which they do, his stats will be garbage, which they are. So when his deal is up, why wouldn't he just say, give me huge money or my QO, San Jose will then have to trade him for a diminished return or just not sign him and he becomes FA and walks. I absolutely understand this contract. It's absolutely crap for the team but insane for Meier. He holds all the cards and can do whatever he wants. Either way, he either goes somewhere he wants to be, or he is going to get paid.
Mar. 26, 2021 at 11:51 a.m.
#21
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Quoting: mondo
You looked dead in net last night.


Touché
Mar. 26, 2021 at 11:52 a.m.
#22
torontos finest
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Quoting: SJS2212
Hey look. Another doofus who doesn't understand how QO's and salaries work. Meier's deal is strictly structured to ensure a long-term deal or UFA at the expiry rather than being an RFA again. That is literally the extent of it. No one is paying him a $10 million QO. It is a non-factor. I don't get how people posting on a site that is literally all about contracts and the cap can be so stupid as it relates to the topic.


Sounds like a lousy negotiation tactic on the Sharks end.
Mar. 26, 2021 at 12:30 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
So what happens on his negotiation then smart guy? He just becomes UFA and walks somewhere else? Because why would he sign for anything less than his QO? Or at least close to it. On top of that, why are you insulting me for pointing out how stupid the contract is. A 50-60 point winger making 10 million is ridiculous, sure you can try to sign him for less on a long term deal but where is the incentive for him to do so? If San Jose sucks, which they do, his stats will be garbage, which they are. So when his deal is up, why wouldn't he just say, give me huge money or my QO, San Jose will then have to trade him for a diminished return or just not sign him and he becomes FA and walks. I absolutely understand this contract. It's absolutely crap for the team but insane for Meier. He holds all the cards and can do whatever he wants. Either way, he either goes somewhere he wants to be, or he is going to get paid.


He doesn't hold all the cards though, that is literally the point. The $10 million tag is just a way to ensure he does not play his last year under an arbitration deal. He can sit and demand $10 million, but no one is going to give it to him with a current team or anywhere else in the league. It would be like me telling my employer that I demand a raise of $1 million over my current amount or I am leaving. I can demand it, but no one else is going to give me that so a self aware person/agent will negotiate a deal for me at market value.

People are way too hung up on this QO nonsense when it is legitimately the first point made in every deal trying to negate his value. You would not make the same point or decrease a player's value if they only had 2 years on their current deal until they were a UFA. If anything, it would be seen as a positive in the player's value in that they are not merely a rental and you're not locked in super long-term. Meier should be viewed in the exact same lens given that is all that the QO does in this case. You have the ability to lock him in at market value or let him go to UFA. The "We're going to have to pay him $10 million" dummies that flock to every Meier deal are annoying and ignorant because they think they have this HUGE value depressor when in reality they have nothing.
Mar. 26, 2021 at 2:09 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: SJS2212
He doesn't hold all the cards though, that is literally the point. The $10 million tag is just a way to ensure he does not play his last year under an arbitration deal. He can sit and demand $10 million, but no one is going to give it to him with a current team or anywhere else in the league. It would be like me telling my employer that I demand a raise of $1 million over my current amount or I am leaving. I can demand it, but no one else is going to give me that so a self aware person/agent will negotiate a deal for me at market value.

People are way too hung up on this QO nonsense when it is legitimately the first point made in every deal trying to negate his value. You would not make the same point or decrease a player's value if they only had 2 years on their current deal until they were a UFA. If anything, it would be seen as a positive in the player's value in that they are not merely a rental and you're not locked in super long-term. Meier should be viewed in the exact same lens given that is all that the QO does in this case. You have the ability to lock him in at market value or let him go to UFA. The "We're going to have to pay him $10 million" dummies that flock to every Meier deal are annoying and ignorant because they think they have this HUGE value depressor when in reality they have nothing.


That's not how it works. If he isn't qualified he becomes a UFA. He doesn't need arbitration, his Qualifying offer is 10 million. If he holds out, they have to qualify him or lose him. So for his side they say, "give me a huge contract, no? Okay then I'll test the market." What can the team say to that? The options you have are to A) trade a guy who needs to be qualified to retain B) setup a sign and trade scenario.

Either way the team is in a rough spot. Trading a guy who needs 10 mill to qualify is not at all appealing. So now the teams who want him contact to see what kind of contract he wants. The agent would likely get involved in that and once he picks a team, they really have limited the field of offers so the return won't be huge. If no one wants to pay what his contract demands will be, you are now dealing with a player who still says I want 10 million or I'm walking to UFA, now the team has to qualify him.

There is no way to spin this as smart. San Jose handed him the keys hoping he was going to he elite. He's not.
Mar. 26, 2021 at 2:44 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
That's not how it works. If he isn't qualified he becomes a UFA. He doesn't need arbitration, his Qualifying offer is 10 million. If he holds out, they have to qualify him or lose him. So for his side they say, "give me a huge contract, no? Okay then I'll test the market." What can the team say to that? The options you have are to A) trade a guy who needs to be qualified to retain B) setup a sign and trade scenario.

Either way the team is in a rough spot. Trading a guy who needs 10 mill to qualify is not at all appealing. So now the teams who want him contact to see what kind of contract he wants. The agent would likely get involved in that and once he picks a team, they really have limited the field of offers so the return won't be huge. If no one wants to pay what his contract demands will be, you are now dealing with a player who still says I want 10 million or I'm walking to UFA, now the team has to qualify him.

There is no way to spin this as smart. San Jose handed him the keys hoping he was going to he elite. He's not.


I LITERALLY SAID HE BECOMES A UFA... goodness gracious you're dense. I only brought up arbitration because the goal of Meier when structuring the deal was to ensure that he did not play the final year of team control on a short-term arbitration dictated contract. He essentially cut his last year of team control out of the situation in exchange for a slightly lower AAV number in the near term.

He should be viewed as someone who is a UFA at the expiry of his deal (like say a Tomas Hertl but in 2 years vs 1 year) that can still be re-signed long-term on a normal fair market deal by the Sharks or any acquiring team or be allowed to go into the open market. There is literally no scenario in which any team is qualifying him and on the hook for $10 million. If he doesn't like the deal presented by SJ or an acquiring team and says "I want $10 million or I am walking", then he is walking as a UFA free to sign anywhere (like hundreds of players do every year). Teams non-QO players all the time and Meier would be no different if he doesn't like the offer presented to him when that time comes and wants to play hard ball.
 
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