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(NJD/NYI) - Palmieri, Zajac for Greer, Jobst, 2021 1st, 2022 conditional 4th

Who won the trade?
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Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:24 p.m.
#26
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
Hall 19pts
Zajac 18pts
Palmieiri 17pts

Agreed, great move for the Isles. Not sure about who you are referring to as the best forward on the market though.


pts =/= who’s the better player

Because if that were the case, it would mean Perron is a better player than Hedman
Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:25 p.m.
#27
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Islanders just got an amazing deal....WOW
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Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:25 p.m.
#28
WentWughes
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Quoting: yikes
pts =/= who’s the better player

Cause if so that would mean Perron is a better player than Hedman


Points literally mean nothing. Palmieri was the best forward available in this TD market.
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Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:26 p.m.
#29
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Points literally mean nothing. Palmieri was the best forward available in this TD market.


I know, as to why I said Palmieri was the best forward on the market

Can’t wait to see who overpays for Hall
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Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:28 p.m.
#30
WentWughes
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Quoting: yikes
I know, as to why I said Palmieri was the best forward on the market

Can’t wait to see who overpays for Hall


It was adding onto your response to World
Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:28 p.m.
#31
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Points literally mean nothing.


Haha. I forgot. A forward's job is not to produce points. Right.
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Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:29 p.m.
#32
WentWughes
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
Haha. I forgot. A forward's job is not to produce points. Right.


Nope. There are other factors. There's a reason a guy like Ryan Reaves has over 600 NHL games played despite never putting up more than 20 points in a season.
Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:32 p.m.
#33
Am Yisrael Chai
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Steal for NYI.

Seriously NJD only got a 1st here. Greer and Jobst aren't NHLers.
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Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:33 p.m.
#34
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Nope. There are other factors. There's a reason a guy like Ryan Reaves has over 600 NHL games played despite never putting up more than 20 points in a season.


Of course there are other factors. If you think points mean nothing, you are out of your mind. There's a reason McDavid is widely known as the best player on the planet. It's not because he is trying to be like Ryan Reaves.
Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:34 p.m.
#35
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We were all waiting for this. Sucks he didn't get traded to my Canes although the Isles need him more. Islanders definitely win this trade and its not even close. They get Palmieri AND Zajac both with 50% for a first, a 4th, a decent AHLer, and a potential bottom 6 forward. Don't know why the devils did this because the 1st is gonna be late anyways.
Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:36 p.m.
#36
WentWughes
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
Of course there are other factors. If you think points mean nothing, you are out of your mind. There's a reason McDavid is widely known as the best player on the planet. It's not because he is trying to be like Ryan Reaves.


Points are the end result of factors. The play is what matters.
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Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:37 p.m.
#37
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Almost all hockey media, particularly in the NY metro area, had Palms going to NYI for a 2nd rounder and a C prospect. Even if Zajac was worth a 2nd, two 2nd’s don’t equal a 1st rounder. Solid deal for both sides but Devils did very well.
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Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:38 p.m.
#38
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Points are the end result of factors. The play is what matters.


I don't even know who you think is the best forward or why. What factors are you talking about, besides "play"?
Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:41 p.m.
#39
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Hockey media has really gotten it wrong when assigning values to trade bait this season. Lou never wanted Hall and I don’t think anyone really wants him. There will be NO bidding war for Hall. He will bring a disappointing return.
Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:43 p.m.
#40
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Edited Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:51 p.m.
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Points are the end result of factors. The play is what matters.


Quoting: worldwidesensei
I don't even know who you think is the best forward or why. What factors are you talking about, besides "play"?


Well for example; if McDavid played terrible but got 3pts, would you say he had a good game? I mean sure he got 3 pts but if he caused 4 goals against or got 3 empty net goals, does that mean he actually was good that night?

It’s really a impossible question sometimes, but I think the point being; their are intangibles that players bring. So for example; the selke is for the best defensive forward. McDavid is never up for the Selke because while points do matter, McDavid is not the best defensive player.

So while Hall has some points; it does not mean he is the most valuable player. As to why defensive players are paid due to the value they provide, not the points they provide. So by simply using point totals, that does not necessarily answer who’s the better player. Similarly, the reason why plus minus is generally a useless stat is because I could have 1 second of ice time, but if we got scored against: I am now -1. I’ve stepped off the bench and got a negative value attached to that 1 second of ice time. I could go score a goal on my next shift and then game ends - but Im not technically having a “positive” impact according to +/-. I had a even impact according to plus minus. Even if I played amazing. That 1 second of ice time is equal to my 1 goal shift.

So point totals or first glance stats aren’t the best judge of a player usually.
Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:50 p.m.
#41
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Quoting: yikes
As to why defensive players are paid due to the value they provide, not the points they provide.


Forwards score points. Defenders stop points. Are you missing the textbook definition?

Of course there are defensive-minded forwards and offensive-minded defenders.

"So while Hall has some points; it does not mean he is the most valuable player."

He literally won the most valuable player award. He's not getting it this year, but he is the only player available that has won that award.

Who is the better forward?

Zajac 18 pts. Has a 1.0 OPS and a 0.6 DPS
Palmieri 17pts. Has a 0.9 OPS and a 0.6 DPS

One is a Center, the other is not. One takes 3 times the amount of penalties as the other. One has 16 EV pts, the other has 11.

It's very hard for me to say that Palmieri is the "best forward" even in this deal, yet there is a claim that he is the "best forward available". People are entitled to their opinions, I'd just appreciate it if they could explain why they think that way, besides saying "he plays better".
Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:51 p.m.
#42
Former Hockey Fan
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yikes, capfriendlyaccount, Hawkisles and 1 other person liked this.
Apr. 7, 2021 at 8:55 p.m.
#43
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Edited Apr. 7, 2021 at 9:02 p.m.
Quoting: worldwidesensei
Forwards score points. Defenders stop points. Are you missing the textbook definition?

Of course there are defensive-minded forwards and offensive-minded defenders.

"So while Hall has some points; it does not mean he is the most valuable player."

He literally won the most valuable player award. He's not getting it this year, but he is the only player available that has won that award.

Who is the better forward?

Zajac 18 pts. Has a 1.0 OPS and a 0.6 DPS
Palmieri 17pts. Has a 0.9 OPS and a 0.6 DPS

One is a Center, the other is not. One takes 3 times the amount of penalties as the other. One has 16 EV pts, the other has 11.

It's very hard for me to say that Palmieri is the "best forward" even in this deal, yet there is a claim that he is the "best forward available". People are entitled to their opinions, I'd just appreciate it if they could explain why they think that way, besides saying "he plays better".


Winning an award for a past season does not equal current value. Sports are a: what do you offer me now. Quick has more cups than most players in the NHL. Does that mean he’s better than most players in the NHL? Does that mean he’s valuable to other NHL teams? No; actually most teams wouldn’t care for Quick, if he was out on waivers right now, all things considered he’d likely go unclaimed.


My point simply was, Hall is not better because you said he has more points. It’s a matter of opinion and subjectivity as well as many things are intangibles. A forwards job isn’t to provide points necessarily. Because most players jobs vary on what they provide for what they are paid for. Things aren’t broken down to position titles or definitions.
Apr. 7, 2021 at 9:03 p.m.
#44
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Quoting: yikes


A forwards job isn’t to provide points necessarily; as you said. Because most players jobs vary on what they provide for what they are paid for.


I did not say that. I'm simply refuting the irreconcilable statement that points do not matter. Points matter. The team that scores the most points win. Are you handing out trophies to the team that tried the hardest, or the team that won?
Apr. 7, 2021 at 9:07 p.m.
#45
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Pain...
Apr. 7, 2021 at 9:13 p.m.
#46
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Edited Apr. 7, 2021 at 9:30 p.m.
Quoting: worldwidesensei
I did not say that. I'm simply refuting the irreconcilable statement that points do not matter. Points matter. The team that scores the most points win. Are you handing out trophies to the team that tried the hardest, or the team that won?


Clearly you can’t read because I actually never said “points don’t matter”.

My final sentence on my larger comment with actual details said

Quoting: yikes
So point totals or first glance stats aren’t the best judge of a player usually.


Maybe the choice word of usually was wrong, but otherwise I stand by the statement of first glance stats aren’t always right.

Also, their technically is a award for those who tried the hardest. The Masterson award or the Messier award could both conceivably fit that, as well as the Jim Gregory award. And the Jack Adams; as these are all awards where winning the cup or other awards don’t really factor in.

Simply saying a point total for a player can often be misleading or not tell the whole story. Very reminiscent of “Don’t judge a book by its cover”. Which pretty much saying “he has more points therefore he’s better”, can be very wrong a lot of the time depending on who the conversation is about. Leading back to my other comment of “Perron having more points means he better than Hedman”; which is obviously a false statement.

I’m done replying as this could just go on and on, I hope you have a good one!
Apr. 7, 2021 at 9:16 p.m.
#47
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Fair trade, Isles add more pieces to their deep roster, and Devils get picks, a prospect and a nothing AHLer for players they maybe wouldn’t keep
Apr. 7, 2021 at 9:29 p.m.
#48
Kelandry
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IMO it's a fair deal as of today. NJ could of gotten more last year but they wanted to have a shot at it this year too. Good thing it's a done deal.
Apr. 7, 2021 at 9:38 p.m.
#49
Black Lives Matter
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TBH I voted for New Jersey, but now I'm really not sure. I'll have to think about this one ... and just wait and see what happens, really. Still, though, while I know lots of people are going to disagree with me, I don't love the idea of moving a 1st+ for 2 rentals who are 2nd/3rd liners.
Apr. 7, 2021 at 9:41 p.m.
#50
Jinx god
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Overall great trade by the Isles.
 
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