Forums/Fauteuil - DG

Laine

Created by: Twins1568
Initial Creation Date: Apr 10, 2021
Published: Apr 10 at 9:08
Team: 2020-21 Washington Capitals
Trades
WSH
  1. Laine, Patrik ($1,500,000 retained)
CBJ
  1. Vrána, Jakub
  2. Lapierre, Hendrix
  3. van Riemsdyk, Trevor
  4. 2021 1st round pick (WSH)
Buried
  • Pheonix Copley: $25,000 ($1,100,000)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
WSH
WSH
WSH
VGK
WSH
2022
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
2023
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$80,466,544$419,749$1,330,000$1,033,456
Left WingCenterRight Wing
WSH
Ovechkin, Alex
$9,538,462
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
WSH
Bäckström, Nicklas
$9,200,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
WSH
Wilson, Tom
$5,166,666
RW
NTC
UFA - 4
CBJ
Laine, Patrik
$3,495,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
WSH
Kuznetsov, Evgeny
$7,800,000
C
NTC
UFA - 5
WSH
Oshie, T.J.
$5,750,000
RW, C
NTC
UFA - 5
WSH
Hagelin, Carl
$2,750,000
LW
UFA - 3
WSH
Eller, Lars
$3,500,000
C
UFA - 3
WSH
Sprong, Daniel
$725,000
RW
RFA - 2
WSH
Hathaway, Garnet
$1,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
WSH
Dowd, Nic
$750,000
C
UFA - 2
WSH
Sheary, Conor
$735,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
WSH
Orlov, Dmitry
$5,100,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 3
WSH
Carlson, John
$8,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 6
WSH
Samsonov, Ilya
$925,000
G
RFA - 1
WSH
Dillon, Brenden
$3,900,000
LD
UFA - 4
WSH
Schultz, Justin
$4,000,000
RD
UFA - 2
WSH
Vanecek, Vitek
$716,667
G
RFA - 2
WSH
Chara, Zdeno
$795,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
WSH
Jensen, Nick
$2,500,000
RD
UFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
WSH
Carr, Daniel
$700,000
LW
UFA - 1
WSH
Kempný, Michal
$2,500,000
LD
UFA - 2
WSH
Siegenthaler, Jonas
$800,000
LD
RFA - 1
WSH
Lundqvist, Henrik
$1,500,000
G
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
WSH
Pánik, Richard
$2,750,000 ($1,675,000)
LW, RW
UFA - 3
WSH
Pilon, Garrett
$745,000 ($0)
C
RFA - 1
WSH
Anderson, Craig
$700,000 ($0)
G
UFA - 1
WSH
Sgarbossa, Michael
$700,000 ($0)
C
UFA - 1

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Apr 10 at 9:12
#1
Lankinen for Hart
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 1,302
I wouldn't do that for Laine personally
I'd swap Vrana with one your good prospects
Eli liked this.
Apr 10 at 9:44
#2
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,891
Likes: 880
Just curious how you resign him.
Apr 10 at 9:46
#3
Lankinen for Hart
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 1,302
Quoting: HOCKEYBOY448
Just curious how you resign him.


Pay Seattle to take Oshie contract is the best guess
Apr 10 at 9:58
#4
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,891
Likes: 880
Quoting: Beetlejuice
Pay Seattle to take Oshie contract is the best guess


That'd be expensive, Oshie is still under contract for a long time.
Apr 10 at 10:05
#5
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 381
Likes: 233
Quoting: HOCKEYBOY448
That'd be expensive, Oshie is still under contract for a long time.


Oshie is from WA, I’m sure he would be an instant favorite there.

And TBH, I’m inclined to like this from CBJ’s perspective. Even with Torts likely gone next year, I’m just not really here for whatever contract Laine is likely going to get next.
Apr 10 at 10:07
#6
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,891
Likes: 880
Quoting: dopplsan
Oshie is from WA, I’m sure he would be an instant favorite there.

And TBH, I’m inclined to like this from CBJ’s perspective. Even with Torts likely gone next year, I’m just not really here for whatever contract Laine is likely going to get next.


I guess, but if I'm Seattle I want a 1st plus to take that contract. Dude is still under contract for 4 years after this one and is already past 30.
Apr 10 at 10:14
#7
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 381
Likes: 233
Quoting: HOCKEYBOY448
I guess, but if I'm Seattle I want a 1st plus to take that contract. Dude is still under contract for 4 years after this one and is already past 30.


Oh mos def...didn’t mean to imply they would take him for pennies on the dollar, just that they’d like him 😂
HOCKEYBOY448 liked this.
Apr 10 at 10:23
#8
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,224
Likes: 741
Quoting: dopplsan
Oshie is from WA, I’m sure he would be an instant favorite there.

And TBH, I’m inclined to like this from CBJ’s perspective. Even with Torts likely gone next year, I’m just not really here for whatever contract Laine is likely going to get next.

I could potentially live with it, but I just don't like the idea of swapping out potential quality for quantity, seeing as though we're overstuffed with quantity and lack for quality.
Apr 10 at 10:40
#9
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 17
Likes: 5
I think Laine would gel well with Washington’s locker room so I’d be all for it.
Apr 11 at 8:44
#10
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 2,430
Quoting: dopplsan
Oh mos def...didn’t mean to imply they would take him for pennies on the dollar, just that they’d like him 😂


Oshie's tied for 60th in points in the NHL today with William Nylander, Roope Hintz, Tyler Toffoli, Clayton Keller, and Zach Hyman. He's on pace for a 62 point season, if there were 82 games. He's also the best faceoff guy in the Caps' top-six, and he plays both special teams. His remaining salary averages $4.9M/year, so even if he slips to 40-50 points, it's fairly reasonable, to a team with cap space that wants a leader.

Quoting: HOCKEYBOY448
Just curious how you resign him.


If the Caps can convince any team to give Oshie and his 4.9M remaining average salary a shot at 5.75M cap hit, then after trading Vrana and Hagelin, they have more than enough cap space for Laine's QO, provided Ovechkin and Samsonov don't get much of a raise. But the above trade is a loss for Washington.

Quoting: Beetlejuice
I wouldn't do that for Laine personally
I'd swap Vrana with one your good prospects


Since the 2018 offseason. Vrana has scored 41% more even strength goals than Laine. Vrana has seven times as many even strength playoff points as Laine, seven to one, career. He's played more games, but not seven times more games. Laine's QO is 166% higher than Vrana's. Under a flat cap, Vrana for Laine is confusing.

Van Riemsdyk and Hagelin are pretty good at defense and penalty killing and have won Stanley Cups in Chicago and Pittsburgh. They have some trade value. Maybe not a lot, but some. I mean, Hagelin's corsi and points/60 are the same as Foligno's this year, and Jackets fans want a 1st for Foligno at twice Hagelin's cap hit. So Hagelin alone should be worth more than a 1st to Columbus? I agree. Take Vrana out of this and throw in Panik or Oshie.

Lapierre is arguably the Caps' best prospect, since he was widely hyped as a top-10 guy for last year's draft until a scary neck injury let him fall to wherever the Caps picked. This year he came back and played his team's full season, scoring 1.5 points per game. He's back on track to be a top six center and the main piece in a Laine trade, along with a 1st and a roster player or two.

Vrana for Laine is fair. Hagelin, Lapierre, and a 1st for Laine is fair. This is a fair trade for two Laines. Does Columbus have another one?
Apr 11 at 10:29
#11
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 381
Likes: 233
Quoting: Eli
Oshie's tied for 60th in points in the NHL today with William Nylander, Roope Hintz, Tyler Toffoli, Clayton Keller, and Zach Hyman. He's on pace for a 62 point season, if there were 82 games. He's also the best faceoff guy in the Caps' top-six, and he plays both special teams. His remaining salary averages $4.9M/year, so even if he slips to 40-50 points, it's fairly reasonable, to a team with cap space that wants a leader.



If the Caps can convince any team to give Oshie and his 4.9M remaining average salary a shot at 5.75M cap hit, then after trading Vrana and Hagelin, they have more than enough cap space for Laine's QO, provided Ovechkin and Samsonov don't get much of a raise. But the above trade is a loss for Washington.



Since the 2018 offseason. Vrana has scored 41% more even strength goals than Laine. Vrana has seven times as many even strength playoff points as Laine, seven to one, career. He's played more games, but not seven times more games. Laine's QO is 166% higher than Vrana's. Under a flat cap, Vrana for Laine is confusing.

Van Riemsdyk and Hagelin are pretty good at defense and penalty killing and have won Stanley Cups in Chicago and Pittsburgh. They have some trade value. Maybe not a lot, but some. I mean, Hagelin's corsi and points/60 are the same as Foligno's this year, and Jackets fans want a 1st for Foligno at twice Hagelin's cap hit. So Hagelin alone should be worth more than a 1st to Columbus? I agree. Take Vrana out of this and throw in Panik or Oshie.

Lapierre is arguably the Caps' best prospect, since he was widely hyped as a top-10 guy for last year's draft until a scary neck injury let him fall to wherever the Caps picked. This year he came back and played his team's full season, scoring 1.5 points per game. He's back on track to be a top six center and the main piece in a Laine trade, along with a 1st and a roster player or two.

Vrana for Laine is fair. Hagelin, Lapierre, and a 1st for Laine is fair. This is a fair trade for two Laines. Does Columbus have another one?


Again, I’d take this trade for Laine, FWIW.

And re: Oshie, it’s not that he isn’t productive right now, it’s that he’s 34 and signed for five more seasons. If I’m SEA, I’d love to have him, but practically, my concern isn’t his productivity as a 34 year old, it’s his productivity as a 37, 38, and 39 year old. He might be tied for 60th in points, but even those guys you cited are all, what, on average a decade younger than him?

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not like CBJ bribing VGK to take Clarkson, but I’m not certain SEA decides to do WSH a favor and just pluck Oshie without something coming back, probably.
Apr 11 at 10:51
#12
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 2,430
Edited Apr 11 at 11:02
Quoting: dopplsan
Again, I’d take this trade for Laine, FWIW.

And re: Oshie, it’s not that he isn’t productive right now, it’s that he’s 34 and signed for five more seasons. If I’m SEA, I’d love to have him, but practically, my concern isn’t his productivity as a 34 year old, it’s his productivity as a 37, 38, and 39 year old. He might be tied for 60th in points, but even those guys you cited are all, what, on average a decade younger than him?

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not like CBJ bribing VGK to take Clarkson, but I’m not certain SEA decides to do WSH a favor and just pluck Oshie without something coming back, probably.



As far as averages, sure. You're right. But Ron Francis is making the call. Can you name a player who will be available in the expansion draft whose game more closely resembles Ron Francis as a hockey player?

If anyone knows that some guys stay effective at both ends of the ice until they're 40, that's the guy.

If Pittsburgh had worried about Francis being in his '30s, would John Cullen and Zarley Zalapski have carried them to any championships?
Apr 11 at 12:55
#13
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 381
Likes: 233
Quoting: Eli
As far as averages, sure. You're right. But Ron Francis is making the call. Can you name a player who will be available in the expansion draft whose game more closely resembles Ron Francis as a hockey player?

If anyone knows that some guys stay effective at both ends of the ice until they're 40, that's the guy.

If Pittsburgh had worried about Francis being in his '30s, would John Cullen and Zarley Zalapski have carried them to any championships?


If my GM is constructing my roster based on what worked for NHL teams in the 80’s and 90’s, I’m worried.
Apr 11 at 1:10
#14
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 2,430
Quoting: dopplsan
If my GM is constructing my roster based on what worked for NHL teams in the 90’s, I’m worried.


Who's the guy Oshie's age that Dallas signed for a bigger cap hit and similar term, right before their trip to the Finals?
Apr 11 at 2:05
#15
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 381
Likes: 233
Quoting: Eli
Who's the guy Oshie's age that Dallas signed for a bigger cap hit and similar term, right before their trip to the Finals?


...one year left on Pavelski’s contract is not the same as five years left on Oshie’s. And I mean, yeah, you’re talking about a high gamble to sign a player that age to a contract like that. It’s definitely the exception rather than the rule.

Again, it’s not saying Oshie is awful or has no chance of adding value on this contract. It’s just that the risk of lost value rises each season; being contract bound to that risk for 1-3 years is easier to justify than 5.

I’m just saying SEA doesn’t have incentive to give up serious assets for Oshie.
Apr 11 at 2:11
#16
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 2,430
Quoting: dopplsan
...one year left on Pavelski’s contract is not the same as five years left on Oshie’s. And I mean, yeah, you’re talking about a high gamble to sign a player that age to a contract like that. It’s definitely the exception rather than the rule.

Again, it’s not saying Oshie is awful or has no chance of adding value on this contract. It’s just that the risk of lost value rises each season; being contract bound to that risk for 1-3 years is easier to justify than 5.

I’m just saying SEA doesn’t have incentive to give up serious assets for Oshie.


Wait. You thought someone said Seattle would give up something to get Oshie? No. I just think they'd claim in in the expansion draft over Jensen or Schultz who have decent offense this year but usually don't, and over Vanecek who has a lot of wins behind a team with a great offense but who is otherwise really unproven.
dopplsan liked this.
Apr 11 at 2:18
#17
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 381
Likes: 233
Quoting: Eli
Wait. You thought someone said Seattle would give up something to get Oshie? No. I just think they'd claim in in the expansion draft over Jensen or Schultz who have decent offense this year but usually don't, and over Vanecek who has a lot of wins behind a team with a great offense but who is otherwise really unproven.


Yeah man, I think that’s our miscommunication here haha - I was reacting to Beetlejuice’s comment up there about having to pay SEA to take his contract. Simply a question of how much WAS would have to “pay,” if at all, I guess.
Eli liked this.
Apr 11 at 2:24
#18
Who adds what?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 2,430
Edited Apr 11 at 2:29
Quoting: dopplsan
Yeah man, I think that’s our miscommunication here haha - I was reacting to Beetlejuice’s comment up there about having to pay SEA to take his contract. Simply a question of how much WAS would have to “pay,” if at all, I guess.


Yep. That makes sense. Pavelski and Oshie are each signed through age 38. After this year, Oshie has four years left, at an average salary of 4.9M. Pavelski's contract, I think, was not even front-loaded, because he didn't want to be taken in expansion. He's still outscoring Oshie, though, at 37, so I can't knock it.

I will criticize Zuccarello's contract though. When a guy's whole game is based on foot speed, he's not going to age well, and that was obvious before he signed.

...and I could see the Caps paying all of the above for Laine if the roster player involved is Oshie rather than Vrana, even though Oshie is currently outscoring Laine. He won't next year, so a 1st and a future top six center is reasonable. Columbus then passes Oshie forward to Seattle, and WSH is forced to trade Vrana elsewhere over the offseason to make the cap work, unless Ovechkin doesn't want to stick around. But meanwhile, Tortorella plays Oshie at #1C between Bjorkstrand and Atkinson, and they just might make the playoffs. I can dream, right? smile
 
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