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The San Jose Sharks are going to regret not rebuilding sooner

When does the rebuild start? Because it will start.
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Apr. 13, 2021 at 1:43 a.m.
#1
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Edited Apr. 13, 2021 at 1:51 a.m.
I personally don't see how management does not view the team in disarray.

Kane - Good but getting old
Couture - Good but getting old
Burns - Already declining but still good (but STILL OLD)
Karlsson - Shell of his former self with flashes of brilliance and flashes of horror (and getting old)
Hertl - Great but doesn't fit a timeline to be utilized fully
Meier - Young but not a gamebreaker
Labanc - Young but not a gamebreaker

All these mentioned pieces above are movable assets (with Karlsson and Couture unlikely to ever be moved for differing reasons). Kane is still tradeable, Burns could be on Seattle - if not we could part with incentives (like Donato and a pick (like a 2nd)). Now all things considered;

Kane, Karlsson, Meier, Couture stay with the Sharks.

Sell Hertl high - as this past TDL; he would have been sold for high. A basically blue chip prospect and a first maybe a small add too (maybe even MORE) would easily have been returned at 50% retention for two playoff runs with Hertl at a 2.6m AAV. I will die on this hill.

Sell Labanc - additionally at this past TDL or coming Draft day I see him fetching either a pair of 2nds and a prospect. If not, a first and a prospect of value (but nothing crazy special).

Next you send Burns, Donato, a 2nd, and maybe an additional asset or a conditional asset to Seattle. Shoot me if you want; but I'd think Burns, Gregor, Donato, 2022 2nd would have Burns as a Kraken.

This leaves you with (simplified):

2021 Firsts = 2 (ours plus Hertls) = Let's just assume we draft Owen Powers early, and Sillinger/ Lambos mid round.
2021 2nd and a 2022 2nd = Labanc trade = Lets say we get Corson Ceulemans with the 2021 pick.
A New Top Prospect (lets use Boldy or Newhook as prospect type value for this scenario, Hertl Trade)
A New Good Prospect (lets use Bellows or Logan Brown prospect type as an example from the Labanc Trade)

Sprinkle in the other moves plus those for mid round picks and you have 5 QUALITY new prospect invigorating the Sharks Prospect Pool. Even being modest (reducing Labanc + Hertl returns), make it only Ceulemans and Bellows for Labanc & Newhook and Lambos for Hertl no other adds. Thats still quality. Add those pieces too Bordeleau, Merkley, Melnichuk, Korenar, Ferraro, Leonard, Knyzhov, Hatakka, Kniazev, Guschin, Balcers, and Gambrell and that is a supringsly bright team in 2 seasons assuming things just go well (if things went amazing than it honestly could be much brighter) + Meier in his prime with Couture and Kane still usable and Karlsson still playing. Add in our 2022 Pick likely being early (Lambert, Lavoie, or Wright) - and thats quite literally a successful transition within this seasons TDL -> start of 2022-23.

I do not want to hate on the Sharks - as the reason were in this situation was because as a franchise, the Sharks competed for basically 20 years straight - being a cup contender for a major amount of time. Doug Wilson has the most wins as a GM since 2003 (over 750). They did all they could and more to field a dominate team. Even near the end; as we all can hate it - the Karlsson trade was to WIN a cup. Not to be winning a Norris is 2022. But to win the cup when he was acquired. So even until the very end the team did all they could (and STILL ARE BECAUSE WE ARENT REBUILDING) to give the Sharks a chance to win.

But its about time to call it quits. Because rebuilding now may hurt for a little bit - but being forced to rebuild in 2 years or so when its way too late is going to hurt for YEARS.
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Apr. 15, 2021 at 6:33 p.m.
#2
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Trouble with the Sharks is they have too many untradeable expensive, long term contracts. In the current cap situation for so many teams, they can't take on cap. Also the Sharks have the about worse prospect pool.
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Apr. 15, 2021 at 7:14 p.m.
#3
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EklundCelebriniSmith
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Quoting: palhal
Trouble with the Sharks is they have too many untradeable expensive, long term contracts. In the current cap situation for so many teams, they can't take on cap. Also the Sharks have the about worse prospect pool.


Those contracts don't negate rebuilding. They do not hinder our future at all. Especially if we rebuild we do not need move out money as we wouldn't need it..

The Sharks are not in a financial or cap problem. They just are bad and holding onto false hope. Rebuilding sooner allows for better future. Rebuilding later delays the inevitable and cause potential future problems of having no assets to trade for value.
Apr. 18, 2021 at 2:09 a.m.
#4
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We're in deep **** and I think the organization is starting to wise up to how dire our future is at this rate. Not sure we ever embrace a full rebuild though. Not going to go too deep into the whole spiel but I think the foundations of your hypothetical game plan are generally the right direction to move in for the club. I'm not sure how long it would take to get back to a legitimately decent team, but accepting that the team we currently have is not gonna do anything meaningful in the future is a good start.

I'm happy to keep Kane and fine with sticking with Karlsson however painful that contract is in the long run, but I wouldn't mind seeing every other core piece go if the price is right. Hertl is one that would make me the most sad, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I could be wrong, but I think at least one (if not both) of Meier and Labanc are outta here by next season as well. And if that's the case, it's absolutely fine by me.

We just need quality > quantity at this rate, and a major overhaul at all 3 positions. Like you said, I'd rather deal with the short-term pain of a rebuild than a future in which we're screwed for years and possibly decades because we refused to acknowledge that this team will never be competitive again without a major refresh.
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Apr. 19, 2021 at 3:31 p.m.
#5
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EklundCelebriniSmith
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Quoting: RawZuccSauce420
We're in deep **** and I think the organization is starting to wise up to how dire our future is at this rate. Not sure we ever embrace a full rebuild though. Not going to go too deep into the whole spiel but I think the foundations of your hypothetical game plan are generally the right direction to move in for the club. I'm not sure how long it would take to get back to a legitimately decent team, but accepting that the team we currently have is not gonna do anything meaningful in the future is a good start.

I'm happy to keep Kane and fine with sticking with Karlsson however painful that contract is in the long run, but I wouldn't mind seeing every other core piece go if the price is right. Hertl is one that would make me the most sad, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I could be wrong, but I think at least one (if not both) of Meier and Labanc are outta here by next season as well. And if that's the case, it's absolutely fine by me.

We just need quality > quantity at this rate, and a major overhaul at all 3 positions. Like you said, I'd rather deal with the short-term pain of a rebuild than a future in which we're screwed for years and possibly decades because we refused to acknowledge that this team will never be competitive again without a major refresh.


I believe we already are going to regret not rebuilding sooner. Or trading pieces for better younger pieces. But @jfrojelin often points out the coaching problem.

I think Bob is a good coach at times - he seems like a good guy too obviously, and smart. But he’s not a good HEAD COACH. He wasn’t good in Florida and he hasn’t been here. I think he’s better as a part of the coaching staff. We likely won’t see a coaching change but I hope we do. Keep bob and the rest of the guys if you want but a we need a different head. If we can improve our LEAD/ HEAD coach and then keep on the familiar faces who have shown they’re useful. Bob is useful, Nabby is useful. Get a new head coach, either this new coach or someone new for the PP as well.

Then I really hope we change the make up of this team. Trade Donato at draft day as I believe we will make an aggressive trade on draft day. Maybe someone else too. Please expose burns. We can’t have Karlsson and Burns. They’re both fine players still but having two guys who want to be the leader of the OFD doesn’t work. I know merkley is just gonna replace him but Karlsson and Burns both want to be the offensive driver and we’ve seen that it just doesn’t work. If we can put Ferraro with a new 2nd pair (assuming Knyzhov stays with Karlsson) where it’s solely defensive (not 3 pairs of Karlsson, Burns, Merkley) than we can have a shutdown pair.

Knyzhov - Karlsson
Ferraro - New DFD/TWD
Simek - Merkley

Or

Ferraro - Merkley

With Simek getting a new DFD (please not Vlasic)

Then we can actually see if we can get a a pair who we can deploy confidently in our own zone. Karlsson and Burns are either really good or really bad and we can’t rely on a gamble. If we can rely on Simek/ Mario + a new face then we can actually allow Karlsson/ Merkley do their jobs. Right now we’re trying to make Burns and Karlsson be TWD and they just simply aren’t. They’re OFD and they’ll never be good all 82 games. That’s the life of a OFD.

If we don’t sell in the offseason I just truly hope management realizes these new kids can actually carry teams (Barzal, Tkachuk, Norris/ Stutzle, point etc) if you just get 1 hit in the draft that’s young and talented who performs - he can change the entire feel of the team. If we sooner realize that hey don’t need 20 vets but a mix of veterans who are playing around some talented youth we could actually compete again. It won’t be next year (unless things go amazing for Leonard, Bordeleau (somehow), Knyzhov and Ferraro plus our new draft).

We need help in net too obviously but that’s already acknowledged by management and I think they know they’ll need to make changes.
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Apr. 20, 2021 at 2:24 p.m.
#6
shorks
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I think that the Sharks need to pull the plug on Jones, he's serviceable, but I'm not paying 5.75 Million for just a serviceable goalie. The defense is a mess, and the forward depth is not good. Bob Boughner is a transitional coach, and EK65, Burns, and Vlasic's deals are getting worse and worse by the day. The only two good ones are Kane and Couture, (Meier and Labanc are also) because they perform as advertised, but the uncertainty with Kane and his deal still stems. The Sharks need to rebuild I think, because our cup window is gone.
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Apr. 26, 2021 at 1:11 a.m.
#7
Hockey Fan13
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Quoting: yikes
I personally don't see how management does not view the team in disarray.

Kane - Good but getting old
Couture - Good but getting old
Burns - Already declining but still good (but STILL OLD)
Karlsson - Shell of his former self with flashes of brilliance and flashes of horror (and getting old)
Hertl - Great but doesn't fit a timeline to be utilized fully
Meier - Young but not a gamebreaker
Labanc - Young but not a gamebreaker

All these mentioned pieces above are movable assets (with Karlsson and Couture unlikely to ever be moved for differing reasons). Kane is still tradeable, Burns could be on Seattle - if not we could part with incentives (like Donato and a pick (like a 2nd)). Now all things considered;

Kane, Karlsson, Meier, Couture stay with the Sharks.

Sell Hertl high - as this past TDL; he would have been sold for high. A basically blue chip prospect and a first maybe a small add too (maybe even MORE) would easily have been returned at 50% retention for two playoff runs with Hertl at a 2.6m AAV. I will die on this hill.

Sell Labanc - additionally at this past TDL or coming Draft day I see him fetching either a pair of 2nds and a prospect. If not, a first and a prospect of value (but nothing crazy special).

Next you send Burns, Donato, a 2nd, and maybe an additional asset or a conditional asset to Seattle. Shoot me if you want; but I'd think Burns, Gregor, Donato, 2022 2nd would have Burns as a Kraken.

This leaves you with (simplified):

2021 Firsts = 2 (ours plus Hertls) = Let's just assume we draft Owen Powers early, and Sillinger/ Lambos mid round.
2021 2nd and a 2022 2nd = Labanc trade = Lets say we get Corson Ceulemans with the 2021 pick.
A New Top Prospect (lets use Boldy or Newhook as prospect type value for this scenario, Hertl Trade)
A New Good Prospect (lets use Bellows or Logan Brown prospect type as an example from the Labanc Trade)

Sprinkle in the other moves plus those for mid round picks and you have 5 QUALITY new prospect invigorating the Sharks Prospect Pool. Even being modest (reducing Labanc + Hertl returns), make it only Ceulemans and Bellows for Labanc & Newhook and Lambos for Hertl no other adds. Thats still quality. Add those pieces too Bordeleau, Merkley, Melnichuk, Korenar, Ferraro, Leonard, Knyzhov, Hatakka, Kniazev, Guschin, Balcers, and Gambrell and that is a supringsly bright team in 2 seasons assuming things just go well (if things went amazing than it honestly could be much brighter) + Meier in his prime with Couture and Kane still usable and Karlsson still playing. Add in our 2022 Pick likely being early (Lambert, Lavoie, or Wright) - and thats quite literally a successful transition within this seasons TDL -> start of 2022-23.

I do not want to hate on the Sharks - as the reason were in this situation was because as a franchise, the Sharks competed for basically 20 years straight - being a cup contender for a major amount of time. Doug Wilson has the most wins as a GM since 2003 (over 750). They did all they could and more to field a dominate team. Even near the end; as we all can hate it - the Karlsson trade was to WIN a cup. Not to be winning a Norris is 2022. But to win the cup when he was acquired. So even until the very end the team did all they could (and STILL ARE BECAUSE WE ARENT REBUILDING) to give the Sharks a chance to win.

But its about time to call it quits. Because rebuilding now may hurt for a little bit - but being forced to rebuild in 2 years or so when its way too late is going to hurt for YEARS.


I still like Burns, he may be getting old but I don't think Sharks should pay someone to take him. Getting to watch him more this year than I do normally I think his decline isn't so much physical as it is him not playing within the system, probably just trying to make a play, other times he seems disengaged I would guess that might be because of how terrible the Sharks have been.
My point is this, Sharks should be able to move Burns if they are willing to retain a good chunk of his salary probably even get a nice pick or prospect in return. Karlsson maybe the same but I think Sharks keep him and just manage his health.
As far as who I believe Sharks need to target in the draft it is Wallstedt. Only because I think great goaltending fixes many things. I do understand the reluctance to draft a goalie high. I suspect the Sharks draft 8 and power should be gone by then.

On another note, I live in MN so I'm not sure I get the best Sharks info. I read Kurz and follow Pashelka on twitter, but both pale in comparison to Russo's coverage of the Wild. Is there a podcast or someone else I should be reading/ following? Who has the best Sharks info?
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Apr. 26, 2021 at 1:03 p.m.
#8
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EklundCelebriniSmith
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Quoting: OutCold13
I still like Burns, he may be getting old but I don't think Sharks should pay someone to take him. Getting to watch him more this year than I do normally I think his decline isn't so much physical as it is him not playing within the system, probably just trying to make a play, other times he seems disengaged I would guess that might be because of how terrible the Sharks have been.
My point is this, Sharks should be able to move Burns if they are willing to retain a good chunk of his salary probably even get a nice pick or prospect in return. Karlsson maybe the same but I think Sharks keep him and just manage his health.
As far as who I believe Sharks need to target in the draft it is Wallstedt. Only because I think great goaltending fixes many things. I do understand the reluctance to draft a goalie high. I suspect the Sharks draft 8 and power should be gone by then.

On another note, I live in MN so I'm not sure I get the best Sharks info. I read Kurz and follow Pashelka on twitter, but both pale in comparison to Russo's coverage of the Wild. Is there a podcast or someone else I should be reading/ following? Who has the best Sharks info?


Yeah Donato and a pick im not upset to part with but anything more isnt worth moving burns. because as you said; people who actually watch the Sharks know that he hasn't been a issue (in terms of play and condition at all this year (neither has Karlsson but issues arise from both; disengaged, playing their way cause the team sucks etc)

And I'm fine with Wallstedt but I still believe some trades need to be made to bring some youth into the team. So if we keep Burns then Id like to see Donato traded at least. As I think this is actually a decent draft. I really want another first but thats unlikely.


Sheng Peng would be your guy. I always go to Sheng - usually better updates and just general info than the other two. Even more so because I feel hes just overall way better but also because Sheng somewhat updates regularly on the Barracuda/ prospects but mainly he retweets a lot of barracuda info/ updates from BrianTruong (who works for Sheng, as a primary guy for the Barracuda). He's alot more consistent and active and seems to just be a way better source than Kevin Kurz usually lol (nothing against Kurz but he's mainly behind a paywall whereas Sheng has his own "hustle").
Hard to compare to Russo in general as Russo is just very good haha - but Sheng is the Sharks best option.
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Jun. 26, 2021 at 6:45 p.m.
#9
Bedard23
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This has to be the most screwed franchise in the nhl
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Jul. 31, 2021 at 8:21 p.m.
#10
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Karlsson, Burns and Vlasic contracts are so hideous that those players have zero trade value- you would need a sweetner just to dump them.
Couture, Hertl, Leblanc and Meier all have good value- and ideally they should be dealt at their peak value as the Sharks are years away from contending.
Kanes contract isnt great....but it could be voided soon, if the allegations that he bet on games involving the Sharks...hes done for the league IMHO. KHL bound, just to attempt to pay off his debts- what an idiot.
Aug. 14, 2021 at 10:57 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: rollie1967
Karlsson, Burns and Vlasic contracts are so hideous that those players have zero trade value- you would need a sweetner just to dump them.
Couture, Hertl, Leblanc and Meier all have good value- and ideally they should be dealt at their peak value as the Sharks are years away from contending.
Kanes contract isnt great....but it could be voided soon, if the allegations that he bet on games involving the Sharks...hes done for the league IMHO. KHL bound, just to attempt to pay off his debts- what an idiot.


If Kane we're innocent and none of the off-ice crap happened his contract would be considered good. He's in the prime of his prime and playing extremely well, reduced his penalties by near 80% and scoring at will. He was one of the best power forwards in the game last year and has been a consistent 30 goal forward for the sharks (over 82) since he came here.
Aug. 15, 2021 at 5:02 p.m.
#12
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If Kane was innocent...then stats wise his contract is fair....but even then- there is a lot of baggage that goes with Kane. He has basically been kicked off both Winnipeg and Buffalo, good player- terrible teammate, husband, gambler etc.
Aug. 17, 2021 at 2:25 p.m.
#13
Patient Sharks Fan
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Quoting: rollie1967
If Kane was innocent...then stats wise his contract is fair....but even then- there is a lot of baggage that goes with Kane. He has basically been kicked off both Winnipeg and Buffalo, good player- terrible teammate, husband, gambler etc.


You have zero proof that he is a bad husband. All we have is a jilted ex putting her dirty laundry in public eye. Please stop aimlessly making conjecture based comments with the source being some ladies instagram page. Like really.
Aug. 17, 2021 at 10:33 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: lilfimpen
You have zero proof that he is a bad husband. All we have is a jilted ex putting her dirty laundry in public eye. Please stop aimlessly making conjecture based comments with the source being some ladies instagram page. Like really.


Yah, i guess because I never met OJ, i cant form an opinion either. Kane left his PREGNANT wife to deal with a foreclosure on their house. He lost it due to his gambling addiction. He has made plenty of bad decisions, many that involve gambling, but far from exclusive. His former teammates in Winnipeg basically forced management to trade him- they were sick of him (especially Byfulgien), and now there are rumblings that his teammates in SJ are saying the same thing (giving him a book on how to gamble isnt a good sign- him going out to gamble in vegas during the playoffs probably didnt sit well.)
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