The isles can’t afford Bertuzzi

In that case, maybe DAL or FLA would be a better target.

At some time you don't trade for unknown futures. If the Wings think Bertuzzi is going to be a good player for them, sign him for let's say 5m X 5 deal

Maybe, maybe not. I think it entirely depends on what Yzerman can get for him.

He may want for Larkin to be the oldest "core" player, which would allow him to put Bert & Fabbri on the block. If he puts either on the block, I think his goal would be to get something in return that he thinks is better for the team in the long haul than Bert/Fabbri. If he can't accomplish that, then he keeps the players.

Would be 5 straight years of top-6 picks without lottery win.
C’mon, Bettman.
Get the wings one of those ‘heavy’ balls.

My theory is that we'll win a lotto pick as we're starting to improve (so like 2022 or 23). But I don't want to bank on it because our lotto luck thus far has been garbage!

a rebuilt from a rebuild. spinning tires.

I could see the penguins maybe swapping him and Zucker.

I don't think DET has much value here. A he's coming off injury. B. he only has one year left and I just don't see him signing long term there if they are going to start a rebuild. C. They couldn't get a long term deal done with him last time. If they couldn't sign him for more than a year last time, they probably aren't going to this time. I think the feeling is he's gonna jump ship. The question is what do you get for him before he does. DET hosed WSH, but they had their own issues with Vrana and took a cap dump in Panik back. I don't know if you'd get the same out of Bert.
My guess is he's TDL material next year. They need to raise his stock by letting him play.

They deserve one.
A 2022 lottery win would be worth the wait.

That's not spinning tires. It's how Yzerman shaped TB, and it's also how OTT has been doing things (and I think that's going alright for them). You can't just bank on getting lucky in the draft every year so you need to make moves where you see fit. True rebuilds take more than a few years unless you're getting lucky.

I modeled the Bert trade off Mantha's, albeit with a lower valuation (Bolduc < Vrana and Komarov is a dump).

Wright would most certainly make the pain worthwhile.

not a big enough market. I'm going with VAN. They didn't play well. It's a prime hockey city. Large population. They need that city to do well in the ratings etc... it's good for the game.

eh, I don't buy that and that's not how OTT did it. OTT didn't rebuild a rebuild. OTT playin in the ECF and then the team fell apart, they rebuilt, and are now poised to be competitive again.
TOR fell apart, rebuilt and are now posed to be competitive again.
Even CBJ was competitive for a while, fell apart, and now are starting to rebuild again. Teams aren't suppose to go from one rebuild to another rebuild. That's not how it's suppose to work.

I like that deal, but we're not giving up ANOTHER 1st round pick. Change that to a 2nd and 3rd and we have a deal.

I don't think Bertuzzi is off the table, but I think similar to Mantha the value needs to be there and I think keeping Bertuzzi is a very viable option.

Your RFA signings are all looking a bit expensive, and think the asset Detroit will be using to get value is the cap space rather than roster players. There might not be as much of a market for cap dump trades as wings fans might hope. So failing that could you sign a UFA like Landeskog (for arguments sake) to a middle term overpay that comes off the books as ELCs start to finish e.g. 3x$10m?

How many teams have won the Cup in the cap era doing it the way you think it's supposed to work?

Agree and agree. You might have missed my explanation at the top: "1. Didn't put too much thought into contracts & salaries, just trades and draft picks."

Valid - as Detroit has a large number of picks I believe they need a smaller number of quality assets rather than quantity, so this would be a non-starter.

several, including the penguins.

The Penguins were gifted a top 2 pick for 4 straight years. Let's not act like that's normal.

Vancouver? Over Detroit?
Not sure I am with you on that one.



Penguins were on the verge of collapse pre-Crosby.
They were still coming out of bankruptcy. Thinking about relocating.
If you want to use that as example, the lottery should be handed to Arizona or Florida.

Looking back at past winners, I think WSH is the prime example. They had a rough spell and got Ovi & Backstrom out of it. Otherwise, they've drafted & developed well. They have done it "right".

LAK also did it right: hit on draft picks, and won with heart.

BOS also did it "right" I think, but for as successful they've been by making the playoffs, they only have 1 Cup to show for it.

STL's win doesn't happen without ROR, who was acquired by trading the guys they may have been able to re-tool with (but likely wouldn't have put them over the edge like ROR did).

CHI had a good team but I would put them in the PIT bucket of lotto "luck" that worked out for them.


So, doing it "right" doesn't guarantee anything. There's not a right way to do it, IMO, it all depends on the team.

VAN is a larger city with a larger hockey following than DET. That just is what it is.

FL is doing well. AZ could very well be a team that get is , but they haven't been bad enough lately to. Like this year, they are on the bubble of making the playoffs.

I'm not trying to pretend either way. I'm in full agreement, just like NY "magically" got picks.
Because they can't have NY not have a decent team. The ratings......

It is what it is. But lets not pretend teams don't build this way, they do. You don't see teams winning the cup rebuilding....never really going anywhere....then rebuilding again....
That doesn't happen.
Hell most GMs are fired when their rebuilds fall to pieces and teams have to start over.

My point was that the "new" way to build is by moving your rebuild pieces to push you to the next level (before winning a Cup). DET is better with Vrana + 1st + 2nd than they were with Mantha alone if either of those draft picks are hits. Using that as the basis, moving Bertuzzi makes perfect sense if you can get 1-2 pieces that are as good or better than Bertuzzi by himself.

DET totally swindled WSH, there is no doubt about that, I'm not arguing that. I think Vrana is a better player than Mantha to begin with.
But you won't swindle every trade like that. Vrana and WSH had issues. That move probably had to happen. I don't think right now you get that on Bert. A. injury, B. last year of control and it doesn't look like he's signing long term given he only signed one year last year. It's a totally different ballgame.