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We know next to nothing Nylander Rant and draft pick trades

Created by: Kyle_Davidson
Team: 2020-21 Chicago Blackhawks
Initial Creation Date: Apr. 13, 2021
Published: Apr. 13, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I see a lot of people throwing Nylander away based entirely on the new guys Gaudette and Borgstrom. Many of the Nylander haters are suggesting we leave him exposed over guys like Gaudette (without even seeing him play this season, and Borgstrom, who is in the European leagues because he was in the AHL too much for his liking). I've gone over in detail how Nylander was put into a bad situation both by being traded for Jokiharju and being given a top 6 spot in the lineup automatically because of our lack of Forward Depth last season. Most of the Nylander haters are so blinded by their hate, that they didn't even notice that he has been masqurading under the alias Phillip Kurashev after faking an injury earlier this season! (Okay, that last part was a joke, but I don't think it is unrealistic to say that Nylanders 2nd season with the hawks could have been like Kurashevs season had he not been injured) My main point being that Phillip Kurashev has earned the love of Hawks fans even though he is more similar than not to Nylander at least in the roles he has played this season.) There are differences in their game, Nylander probably brings more offensive things to the table, and Kurashev brings more defence and two way play but towards the end of the season Nylander had gotten better in that regard. However my point remains that they are comparable players who have gotten extremely different responses from the fanbase because one was traded for Henri Jokiharju... who hasn't been a world beater by any means. Anyways, the point of this post was to say that we know next to nothing about Gaudette, except that he has been rough in Vancouver this season, and we that Borgstrom didn't get the opportunity he wanted in Florida. Hopefully nylander comes back soon, his timetable said third week of April at the earliest, but since there hasn't been news I'm doubtful of that this point. We should get a small look at Gaudette to end the season, but I'm not sure we will be able to make any decisions off that sample size. To end this rant, I'll parrot the saying it's better dealing with the devil you know, aka Nylander, than the devil you don't. Nylander should still be protected in expansion.

The lines will show what I think are decent lines for when Nylander comes back, I hope I haven't made my position on Nylander unclear in this post, I want to see what he can do before throwing him to Seattle, he shouldn't get unlimited chances and top 6 minutes just because of his name. He should show he can work hard and contribute to our future.
Trades
1.
CHI
  1. 2021 5th round pick (PHI)
  2. 2022 5th round pick (MTL)
MTL
  1. 2021 4th round pick (VAN)
2.
CHI
  1. 2021 3rd round pick (CHI)
MTL
  1. 2022 3rd round pick (VGK)
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
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2022
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2023
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$54,746,313$1,090,244$6,897,500$26,753,687
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UFA - 3
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
C, LW
UFA - 1
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$2,625,000$2,625,000
RW
NMC
UFA - 3
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$3,700,000$3,700,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
C, RW
RFA - 2
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$3,000,000$3,000,000
C
UFA - 2
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$842,500$842,500 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
LW, C, RW
RFA - 2
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RW, LW
RFA - 1
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$880,833$880,833
LW
UFA - 1
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$950,000$950,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
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$1,000,000$1,000,000
C
UFA - 1
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$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW, C
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$3,200,000$3,200,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
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$3,850,000$3,850,000
RD
UFA - 2
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$800,000$800,000
G
UFA - 2
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$5,538,462$5,538,462
LD
NMC
UFA - 3
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LD
UFA - 2
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
RFA - 3
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$850,000$850,000
G
UFA - 2
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$863,333$863,333
LD
UFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
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$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
RFA - 2
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$10,500,000$10,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 3
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$3,500,000$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
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$4,550,000$4,550,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
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$6,875,000$6,875,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 4
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$773,333$773,333 (Performance Bonus$65,000$65K)
LD
RFA - 1
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$3,900,000$3,900,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
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$3,250,000$3,250,000
LW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
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$912,500$912,500 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$25,000$25K)
LW, RW
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LD
UFA - 2
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$775,000$775,000 ($0$0$0$0)
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$700,000$700,000 ($0$0$0$0)
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$1,000,000$1,000,000 ($0$0$0$0)
G
UFA - 2

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Apr. 13, 2021 at 2:36 p.m.
#1
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I wouldn’t expose him to SEA... I would expose him to top 6 mins and players
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Apr. 13, 2021 at 2:46 p.m.
#2
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Kurashev is an unfair comparison as he was not drafted in the 1st round and did not come in a trade for a 1st round player we drafted.

It's DEFENSE not DEFENSE unless you are Canadian or British smile
Apr. 13, 2021 at 2:47 p.m.
#3
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Why wouldn’t he be protected? Unless you’re really going to protect Kampf or someone else there’s plenty of room to protect players.

Toews, Kane, Debrincat, Strome, Nylander, Gaudette, Borgstrom (or Hagel)
Keith, Murphy, Stillman (or Zadorov) (Seabrook waives his NMC as he wouldn’t get selected anyways and is retired)
Lankinen

Exempt players - Kurachev, Dach, Kubalik, Suter, Mitchell, Beau, Boqvist and some others.
Apr. 13, 2021 at 2:49 p.m.
#4
Roster Architect
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You think Alex Nylander gets all the hate? Try following Toronto and all the hate his brother gets! Lmao
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Apr. 13, 2021 at 2:53 p.m.
#5
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Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Kurashev is an unfair comparison as he was not drafted in the 1st round and did not come in a trade for a 1st round player we drafted.

It's DEFENSE not DEFENSE unless you are Canadian or British smile


It's a long post that I typed up on my phone, give me a break.

Also, I don't buy the argument about where Nylander was drafted vs Kurashev, why should that matter? Would it make it better if Nylander was drafted in the fourth round and traded for Jokiharju?
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Apr. 13, 2021 at 2:55 p.m.
#6
exo2769
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Edited Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:16 p.m.
I like the write up and I will admit that upon that Joki/Nylander draft. I was the biggest hater of them all. Link below for how upset I was...it's bad. I really liked Joki ALOT. Time has passed and I have not been impressed with Joki's development AT ALL. I'm really quite shocked that he regressed as far as he did last year. He seems to be getting a little bit back on track this year, but he's also with Dahlin who's a complete stud. I still wish him well and I won't ever forget Joki just shutting down McDavid 4-5 straight drives. Q just tossed him out there and WOW, I thought we had a winner. Anyway...on to Nylander.

I started out with a very pessimistic view point and BUF fans said he was lazy. I've NEVER seen that on NHL ice. I did think in training camp back last year he took off a few shifts, but he's hustled in the NHL. I actually thought he was a very good bottom 6 player. I know I like liked @NYR1983 s post, but I would not give Nylander top 6 minutes. I would give him 3rd/4th line minutes and have him continue to hustle. He made alot of his counterparts score more in that bottom 6 role. I'm not upset with his play last year at all. Should we protect him? No. I don't think Seattle takes him. I don't think he's 2nd or even 3rd on their list. Hard to take a guy based on draft status, 5 years after he was drafted. He'll have played...8ish games in a year and a half before he plays his next game. I just don't see Seattle taking THAT big of a risk. DeHaan, Kampf, Gaudette are all likely ahead of Nylander if I were Seattle.

I don't hate Nylander. I probably came across that way initially. ***CORRECTION...I definitely came across that way initially*** I want to keep him and have him work. I think he can have a role on this team.

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/250338
Apr. 13, 2021 at 2:55 p.m.
#7
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Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: Ajp_18
Why wouldn’t he be protected? Unless you’re really going to protect Kampf or someone else there’s plenty of room to protect players.

Toews, Kane, Debrincat, Strome, Nylander, Gaudette, Borgstrom (or Hagel)
Keith, Murphy, Stillman (or Zadorov) (Seabrook waives his NMC as he wouldn’t get selected anyways and is retired)
Lankinen

Exempt players - Kurachev, Dach, Kubalik, Suter, Mitchell, Beau, Boqvist and some others.


It makes a lot of sense to protect Nylander, but because of who he was traded for Hawks fans actively find things wrong with him and convince themselves they should leave him exposed.
Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:01 p.m.
#8
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Kyle from Chicago
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Edited Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:10 p.m.
Quoting: exo2769
I like the write up and I will admit that upon that Joki/Nylander draft. I was the biggest hater of them all. Link below for how upset I was...it's bad. I really liked Joki ALOT. Time has passed and I have not been impressed with Joki's development AT ALL. I'm really quite shocked that he regressed as far as he did last year. He seems to be getting a little bit back on track this year, but he's also with Dahlin who's a complete stud. I still wish him well and I won't ever forget Joki just shutting down McDavid 4-5 straight drives. Q just tossed him out there and. wow I thought we had a winner. Anyway...on to Nylander.

I started out with a very pessimistic view point and BUF fans said he was lazy. I've NEVER seen that on NHL ice. I did think in training back last year he took off a few shifts, but he's hustled in the NHL. I actually thought he was a very good bottom 6 player. I know I like liked NYR1983 s post, but I would not give Nylander top 6 minutes. I would give him 3rd/4th line minutes and have him continue to hustle. He made alot of his counterparts score more in that bottom 6 role. I'm not upset with his play last year at all. Should we protect him? No. I don't think Seattle takes him. I don't think he's 2nd or even 3rd on their list. Hard to take a guy based on draft status, 5 years after he was drafted. He'll have played...8 games in a year and a half before he plays his next game. I just don't see Seattle taking THAT big of a risk.

I don't hate Nylander. I probably came across that way initially. ***CORRECTION...I definitely came across that way initially*** I want to keep him and have him work. I think he can have a role on this team.

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/250338

I was much the same, but I grew quite fond of Nylander and his play/growth last year. I'm not sure that Nylander wouldn't be picked by Seattle if he were left exposed, but I would rather not find out either way. I think he should easily have the edge over guys like Borgstrom, Kämpf, Gaudette, but not Hagel for example. I do like him in the bottom 6, and I want him to prove himself and us correct in protecting him.
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Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:03 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
It makes a lot of sense to protect Nylander, but because of who he was traded for Hawks fans actively find things wrong with him and convince themselves they should leave him exposed.


I thought Nylander was actually good for Chicago last year, though it didn’t look good moving Joki for him and then watching Boqvist struggle defensively the last few years, though he is doing better now.
Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:10 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
It's a long post that I typed up on my phone, give me a break.

Also, I don't buy the argument about where Nylander was drafted vs Kurashev, why should that matter? Would it make it better if Nylander was drafted in the fourth round and traded for Jokiharju?


Well it matters because the expectation for both the Hawks and fans is higher when you spend a top asset like a 1st round pick versus a 4th round asset on Kurashev. Foolish not to expect more otherwise just give away your first rounders for 4th rounders all day.

Your mobile phone must be canadian! LOL Joking relax
Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:10 p.m.
#11
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Agree with about 95% of what you said. Although Nylander hasn't played this season, Jokiharju has hardly had a better season and a half than Nylander has with his new team (although he has been better since Krueger was fired supposedly idk I don't watch the Sabres). The trade looks more and more even with the passing of time and I'm really excited to see how AN92 does with a full year of recovery and perhaps in a reduced role to start the season.

That said, Gaudette and Borgstrom were basically acquired for the same reason as Nylander was, in that they were underperforming in other organization and the FO sees a pathway to them hitting their respective potentials or something close to it, both of which were originally thought to be pretty high. I have full confidence that regardless of how the next month (and playoffs if they get there) goes, Gaudette and Borgstrom will be protected in expansion, along with Nylander. Wouldn't be surprised if Strome is traded prior to the Expansion Draft and I could see them staying tight-lipped on Toews' status until afterwards so they can leave him exposed without worrying about Seattle grabbing him (they might stay away from that out of good faith anyways). One or both of those moves would free up the necessary space to keep all three of Nylander, Gaudette and Borgstrom.
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Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:10 p.m.
#12
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Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: Ajp_18
I thought Nylander was actually good for Chicago last year, though it didn’t look good moving Joki for him and then watching Boqvist struggle defensively the last few years, though he is doing better now.


He was pretty good, but had the normal ups and downs of any young player. People just couldn't handle who he was traded for.
Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:14 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: exo2769
I like the write up and I will admit that upon that Joki/Nylander draft. I was the biggest hater of them all. Link below for how upset I was...it's bad. I really liked Joki ALOT. Time has passed and I have not been impressed with Joki's development AT ALL. I'm really quite shocked that he regressed as far as he did last year. He seems to be getting a little bit back on track this year, but he's also with Dahlin who's a complete stud. I still wish him well and I won't ever forget Joki just shutting down McDavid 4-5 straight drives. Q just tossed him out there and WOW, I thought we had a winner. Anyway...on to Nylander.

I started out with a very pessimistic view point and BUF fans said he was lazy. I've NEVER seen that on NHL ice. I did think in training back last year he took off a few shifts, but he's hustled in the NHL. I actually thought he was a very good bottom 6 player. I know I like liked NYR1983 s post, but I would not give Nylander top 6 minutes. I would give him 3rd/4th line minutes and have him continue to hustle. He made alot of his counterparts score more in that bottom 6 role. I'm not upset with his play last year at all. Should we protect him? No. I don't think Seattle takes him. I don't think he's 2nd or even 3rd on their list. Hard to take a guy based on draft status, 5 years after he was drafted. He'll have played...8ish games in a year and a half before he plays his next game. I just don't see Seattle taking THAT big of a risk. DeHaan, Kampf, Gaudette are all likely ahead of Nylander if I were Seattle.

I don't hate Nylander. I probably came across that way initially. ***CORRECTION...I definitely came across that way initially*** I want to keep him and have him work. I think he can have a role on this team.

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/250338


Nylander has large in part become a bust based on where he was drafted, but had he been drafted in the late 1st or 2nd I think people would be okay with where he's at. Draft position has huge value to teams and expectations follow. Jokiharju has been equally unimpressive as a late 1st, but the bar isn't as high naturally.

Nylander's biggest issue iMO is his IQ is low. I don't think he's lazy as much as he needs time to think of where to be, where to pass, where to shoot and the NHL simply doesn't allow for much time at all...it has to be instinctual at that point and I don't believe it is yet. Will it be? Possibly but he's got 1 maybe 2 years to figure it out if he wants to be more then a 4th liner or healthy scratch. If he can learn to react quicker and let the game come to him then he can be a good top 9 player.
Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:16 p.m.
#14
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Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Well it matters because the expectation for both the Hawks and fans is higher when you spend a top asset like a 1st round pick versus a 4th round asset on Kurashev. Foolish not to expect more otherwise just give away your first rounders for 4th rounders all day.

Your mobile phone must be canadian! LOL Joking relax


It's been 5 years since Nylanders draft, I'm just not hung up on where he was drafted anymore. Is he worth his position in the draft? No... and its not close at this point. Do I think we should measure him based on that draft position and whom he was traded for? Absolutely not. Although I know those factors are hard for fans to discount.
Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:19 p.m.
#15
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Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Nylander has large in part become a bust based on where he was drafted, but had he been drafted in the late 1st or 2nd I think people would be okay with where he's at. Draft position has huge value to teams and expectations follow. Jokiharju has been equally unimpressive as a late 1st, but the bar isn't as high naturally.

Nylander's biggest issue iMO is his IQ is low. I don't think he's lazy as much as he needs time to think of where to be, where to pass, where to shoot and the NHL simply doesn't allow for much time at all...it has to be instinctual at that point and I don't believe it is yet. Will it be? Possibly but he's got 1 maybe 2 years to figure it out if he wants to be more then a 4th liner or healthy scratch. If he can learn to react quicker and let the game come to him then he can be a good top 9 player.


I disagree with his IQ being THE problem, but it's not his laziness either... I tend to think Nylanders problem is confidence and consistency and looking at his NHL career the only places he has had both of those for any stretch is on the 4th line when there is less pressure. Sure, those attributes (hockey IQ and Work Ethic) aren't anything to write home about, but I don't think they are the reason he hasn't clicked.
Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:28 p.m.
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
I disagree with his IQ being THE problem, but it's not his laziness either... I tend to think Nylanders problem is confidence and consistency and looking at his NHL career the only places he has had both of those for any stretch is on the 4th line when there is less pressure. Sure, those attributes (hockey IQ and Work Ethic) aren't anything to write home about, but I don't think they are the reason he hasn't clicked.


I disagree on confidence being the primary issue although that's an issue but it's a biproduct of lack of IQ, reaction speed, and the overall speed of the game. There is far too much hesitancy with his game and his positioning is generally weak especially without the puck. He plays timid as well. He is likely overthinking the game and thus is often out of position disappearing on the ice. I've watched some tape of Hawks games versus juniors focusing in on him and he's just hesitant and not seeing the ice well at the NHL speed often taking a second or two more then he should to react. That time is afforded in the juniors and he did very well of course but at the NHL level it has to be instinct and the game should come to him as second nature.
Apr. 13, 2021 at 3:32 p.m.
#17
exo2769
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Nylander has large in part become a bust based on where he was drafted, but had he been drafted in the late 1st or 2nd I think people would be okay with where he's at. Draft position has huge value to teams and expectations follow. Jokiharju has been equally unimpressive as a late 1st, but the bar isn't as high naturally.

Nylander's biggest issue iMO is his IQ is low. I don't think he's lazy as much as he needs time to think of where to be, where to pass, where to shoot and the NHL simply doesn't allow for much time at all...it has to be instinctual at that point and I don't believe it is yet. Will it be? Possibly but he's got 1 maybe 2 years to figure it out if he wants to be more then a 4th liner or healthy scratch. If he can learn to react quicker and let the game come to him then he can be a good top 9 player.


I don't think it's IQ. To me, this is a case study of poor player development for organizations. Since April 3rd 2017, Nylander's played in 84 NHL games. That's basically 1 year, right? He's been bounced between AHL/NHL WAY too early. He's been traded to a new team/system, and then injured for a full year. No one's really given him a consistent message combined with enough ice time to truly develop. He doesn't have too many more chances...I do agree with that!, but he can't control a lot of this anymore. All he can do is control attitude and effort. Just keep working hard for your dreams.

Not to tangent too much, but this (and guys like Pool Party) is why IMO kids shouldn't be afraid to upset the team that drafts them and make sure they do what's right by them. This is different than holding out for money. This is trying to fulfill a childhood dream.
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Apr. 13, 2021 at 4:27 p.m.
#18
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Dont think IQ is problem for Nylander. My problem with Nylander is his Kane syndrome. What I mean by that is that he plays the waiting game until somebody else does the hard work to get the puck and then he jumps up on the play. He is incredibly soft in the corners and could never seem to come up with the puck in colliitons awful dump and chase method which doesnt lend itself to nylanders style of play at all. However he has great patience and speed but it seems he has difficulty controlling the puck sometimes. As for the kurashev comparison even though both Nylander and Kurashev are both skilled players Kurashev doesnt have any gripes about being physical and going to dirty areas so it seems like Kurashev is actually working for the puck while Nylander just stands there waiting for something to happen so he can start playing. Its probably why Nylander is branded Lazy and since Kurashev is working hard for the puck and getting in scrums even though its not his style hawks fan respect that hes putting in the work to do so. The Joki trade was a big deal when it happened because Joki looked reeeally good now not so much and since we have Mitchell, Boqvist, Regula we're not exactly hurting for RHD prospects so I dont think people making the Jokiharju argument in 2021 are really informed. I was sour on Nylander when he was playing but Ill give him a full season to change my mind. Hopefully he gets healthy soon.
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Apr. 13, 2021 at 5:10 p.m.
#19
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Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: CFMan
Dont think IQ is problem for Nylander. My problem with Nylander is his Kane syndrome. What I mean by that is that he plays the waiting game until somebody else does the hard work to get the puck and then he jumps up on the play. He is incredibly soft in the corners and could never seem to come up with the puck in colliitons awful dump and chase method which doesnt lend itself to nylanders style of play at all. However he has great patience and speed but it seems he has difficulty controlling the puck sometimes. As for the kurashev comparison even though both Nylander and Kurashev are both skilled players Kurashev doesnt have any gripes about being physical and going to dirty areas so it seems like Kurashev is actually working for the puck while Nylander just stands there waiting for something to happen so he can start playing. Its probably why Nylander is branded Lazy and since Kurashev is working hard for the puck and getting in scrums even though its not his style hawks fan respect that hes putting in the work to do so. The Joki trade was a big deal when it happened because Joki looked reeeally good now not so much and since we have Mitchell, Boqvist, Regula we're not exactly hurting for RHD prospects so I dont think people making the Jokiharju argument in 2021 are really informed. I was sour on Nylander when he was playing but Ill give him a full season to change my mind. Hopefully he gets healthy soon.


I wonder how much of Nylander’s Kane syndrome is on the coaching system. I think he can be a hard worker, but in the end it's on him to put it all together.
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