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Devils pre-expansion trade scenario

Created by: NHLfan10506
Team: 2020-21 New Jersey Devils
Initial Creation Date: Apr. 19, 2021
Published: Apr. 19, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
While Devils fans wait and watch our team Nuke for Luke, Cower for Power, or (something) for Simon...

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** This is not a post about trade values...it speculation about types of creative pre-expansion trades. If you are looking for 'value of this guy for that guy' this is not it. **

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Apologize in advance for longer post.

Trying to make sense of Devils GM Tom Fitzgerald's various comments via press availabilities since the deadline.

Piecing together a couple of things he has said, and cannot quite find the right scenario in which they would all fit.

1. He wants to make an addition before the expansion draft.
2. He purposely did not use the 3rd retention spot at the deadline because he said he wanted to use before the expansion draft. (NJD used first two on Palmieri and Zajac)
3. He will try to use his cap space before expansion draft as an asset to acquire players.

So help me with this scenario. NJD makes a trade that meets the following criteria (1) is done before expansion draft (2) uses a 2020-21 retention spot and (3) takes on more cap to acquire players (not picks, but players).

I see three types of scenarios that fit this criteria.

Example #1: "LETANG EXAMPLE" (two trades) Taking a player with NMC but limited or no NTC to allow team to protect more valuable long-term assets. Examples would be Kris Letang (PIT), Erik Johnson (COL), Phil Kessel (ARI), Ben Bishop (DAL), Alexander Radulov (DAL). Trading them opens up a protection spot.

Example #2: "SUBBAN EXAMPLE". Subban is really the only contract on the Devils worth retaining if NJD is using that 3rd retention spot on an existing player. If he is dealt, I imagine it would be to a competitive team that has a 4th d-man that cannot be protected in expansion. Examples here would be Matt Dumba (MIN), Vince Dunn (STL), Cal Foote (TBL), Jake Bean (CAR). (If NJD trades Subban for picks or lower salary, then the cap floor comes into play).

Example #3: "TAMPA EXAMPLE" The last one is where they would take advantage of cap restraints and the expansion draft simultaneously with a team like Tampa Bay. The Devils would provide a cheap, retained player, in exchange for potential RFA and a salary dump. This kills two birds with one stone.

Any other scenarios people can think of that meet the three criteria above?

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Trades
1.
NJD
  1. Letang, Kris ($1,250,000 retained)
Additional Details:
Letang has 18-team trade list but has NMC so would have to be protected for expansion draft (if PIT wants to look long-term and protect Dumo, Matheson and Petterson), they move Letang with NJD being middle-man.
PIT
    Return would be assets from 3rd team.
    2.
    NJD
    1. Chisholm, Declan
    Additional Details:
    Devils get a young player, while other assets are sent to PIT to complete trade.

    Note: I am looking for a fitting scenario, not at trade values here.
    WPG
    1. Letang, Kris ($3,000,000 retained)
    3.
    NJD
    1. Dumba, Matt
    Additional Details:
    MIN must protect Spurgeon, Brodin and Suter due to their NMC unless one of them waived. Which makes Dumba the odd mad out. Subban, who has 1-year remaining contract, would be less likely to be taken in expansion draft. MIN would gain assets for a player they would have lost in expansion while giving Addison an extra year to slot into Dumba's place.

    Note: I am looking for a fitting trade scenario, not at trade values here.
    MIN
    1. Subban, P.K. ($4,500,000 retained)
    Additional Details:
    Other expansion-exempt assets
    4.
    NJD
    1. Foote, Cal
    2. Johnson, Tyler
    Additional Details:
    Tampa moves out pending a expensive veteran and uses one of their surplus d-men to pay for it. If they chose to protect Hedman, Sergachev and Cernak, then Cal Foote would become the expendable piece, who they would likely lose to expansion draft.

    Note: I am looking for a fitting trade scenario, not at trade values here.
    TBL
    1. Wood, Miles ($1,375,000 retained)
    Buyouts
    Retained Salary Transactions
    Recapture Fees
    Buried
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2021
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NYI
    Logo of the NYI
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the ARI
    2022
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the EDM
    Logo of the NYI
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the CBJ
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    2023
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the NJD
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$81,500,000$73,540,220$0$4,837,500$7,959,780
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $2,250,000$2,250,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $7,250,000$7,250,000
    C
    UFA - 7
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $2,750,000$2,750,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $811,666$811,666 (Performance Bonus$32,500$32K)
    LW, C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,850,000$3M)
    C
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $775,833$775,833 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
    C, LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $894,167$894,167
    LW
    RFA - 4
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $925,000$925,000
    C, LW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $809,167$809,167 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
    C, LW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $3,400,000$3,400,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
    C
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $714,166$714,166 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
    RW
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
    LD/RD
    RFA - 3
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $4,166,666$4,166,666
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $2,800,000$2,800,000
    G
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $4,600,000$4,600,000
    LD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $700,000$700,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $2,822,764$2,822,764
    LD
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $700,000$700,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $800,000$800,000
    LD
    UFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $775,833$775,833 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Winnipeg Jets
    $815,000$815,000
    LD/RD
    RFA - 3
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $874,125$874,125
    RW, C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $6,000,000$6,000,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $912,500$912,500 (Performance Bonus$25,000$25K)
    RW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    RW, C, LW
    NTC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
    RD
    RFA - 1
    Taxi Squad
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $800,000$800,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $795,000$795,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    LD
    RFA - 4
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $750,000$750,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the New Jersey Devils
    $718,333$718,333 ($0$0$0$0)
    G
    RFA - 1

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    Apr. 19, 2021 at 4:59 p.m.
    #1
    Pens are the best
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    Letang retires a pen
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 5:10 p.m.
    #2
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    On your #3 scenario- Couldn't Tampa just offer up a sweetener up for Seattle not to take player X (just like Minny did to Vegas)
    So for example Tampa offers up Boris Katchouk (just picked a young player here) along with Tyler Johnson not to take Foote

    BTW you only listed 3 and said you had 4 scenarios
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 5:25 p.m.
    #3
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    Quoting: Smitty426
    On your #3 scenario- Couldn't Tampa just offer up a sweetener up for Seattle not to take player X (just like Minny did to Vegas)
    So for example Tampa offers up Boris Katchouk (just picked a young player here) along with Tyler Johnson not to take Foote

    BTW you only listed 3 and said you had 4 scenarios


    Nice catch on 3 vs 4. I had a 4th, but it was too odd-ball.

    On Tampa -
    (a) If they do nothing, Seattle takes Foote. Tampa still has to dump Johnson (or another salary).
    (b) if they trade a player to Seattle to take Johnson, they get nothing in return.
    (c) if they trade Foote and Johnson to NJD (or another team), they add Wood at a discount and can let Killorn go in expansion.
    Smitty426 liked this.
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 5:31 p.m.
    #4
    Speak of the Devil
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    The most likely scenario in my opinion will be:

    Butcher or Johnsson (50%) with the Islanders 1st (31st) for cap dump + young NHL defensemen.

    Bean, Dunn, Graves, Foote, are some examples
    Smitty426 liked this.
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 6:01 p.m.
    #5
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    Quoting: Imagine875948
    Letang retires a pen


    Sure but I don`t think it is likely he plays exclusively for Pittsburgh his whole career...
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    Apr. 19, 2021 at 6:15 p.m.
    #6
    Pens are the best
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    Quoting: ChampEddy
    Sure but I don`t think it is likely he plays exclusively for Pittsburgh his whole career...


    He wants to stay in PIT and burke doeesnt want to trade him
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 6:26 p.m.
    #7
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    BTW the PK trade is intriguing!
    Can you make the Wood part of the TBL trade diff, I think we need Woodie?
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    Apr. 19, 2021 at 6:27 p.m.
    #8
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    Quoting: ChampEddy
    Sure but I don`t think it is likely he plays exclusively for Pittsburgh his whole career...


    Quoting: Imagine875948
    He wants to stay in PIT and burke doeesnt want to trade him


    It’s just an example. I singled him out because he has one-year, high salary, NMC but limited NTC, and was coming from team that had three other d-men to protect.

    Quoting: Devil1122
    The most likely scenario in my opinion will be:

    Butcher or Johnsson (50%) with the Islanders 1st (31st) for cap dump + young NHL defensemen.

    Bean, Dunn, Graves, Foote, are some examples


    All good examples and fit the criteria.
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 6:34 p.m.
    #9
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    I am guessing the handiness of said defender makes a diff based on where we fall in draft? Maybe not though.
    And in your Tampa scenario does Johnson go to Sea?
    I am hoping Fitz is having some of this out o da box thinking
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 6:46 p.m.
    #10
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Nice catch on 3 vs 4. I had a 4th, but it was too odd-ball.

    On Tampa -
    (a) If they do nothing, Seattle takes Foote. Tampa still has to dump Johnson (or another salary).
    (b) if they trade a player to Seattle to take Johnson, they get nothing in return.
    (c) if they trade Foote and Johnson to NJD (or another team), they add Wood at a discount and can let Killorn go in expansion.


    Your comment about matt dumba and wild are blatantly wrong. Wild can do 4 & 4

    Get real dude. Wild aren't trading dumba for trash contract, & older worser player in subban

    Your reasoning for wild is beyond comical
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 7:07 p.m.
    #11
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    Really interested in the Dumba PK trade. What gets added really makes it work that it though. A straight swap wouldn’t even be close.

    Does NJ have any young centers that could get thrown in? Obviously Hughes and Hischer lock up top 2 (for awhile) so I feel like they would be willing to move a prospect if they had one.
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    Apr. 19, 2021 at 7:35 p.m.
    #12
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    Quoting: ModanoisCool
    Your comment about matt dumba and wild are blatantly wrong. Wild can do 4 & 4

    Get real dude. Wild aren't trading dumba for trash contract, & older worser player in subban

    Your reasoning for wild is beyond comical


    "worser"
    Lol

    They could do 4-4-1, and put forwards like Foligno, Greenway at risk.
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 8:08 p.m.
    #13
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    Quoting: Smitty426
    I am guessing the handiness of said defender makes a diff based on where we fall in draft? Maybe not though.
    And in your Tampa scenario does Johnson go to Sea?
    I am hoping Fitz is having some of this out o da box thinking


    In Tampa scnerio (which is actually a scenario first presented by Lightning fan), NJD would take Johnson and Foote.
    Since we traded Zajac, having Johnson made a little more sense as a 3RW/3C next to Sharangovich (until he can learn how to win a faceoff).
    TJ can really play anywhere, and does a lot of the little stuff well, which I like having on a young team.

    Quoting: zreich4
    Really interested in the Dumba PK trade. What gets added really makes it work that it though. A straight swap wouldn’t even be close.

    Does NJ have any young centers that could get thrown in? Obviously Hughes and Hischer lock up top 2 (for awhile) so I feel like they would be willing to move a prospect if they had one.


    Yes.
    Hughes, Hischier, Sharangovich, Zacha, Kuokkanen, McLeod, Maltsev, Boqvist, Merkley, Pytlik, Schnarr, Talvitie are our young centers.

    Hughes and Hischier are obviously staying.
    Zacha shows a lot of more offense on the wing, tends to hold back at center. I doubt they move him, but maybe.
    Sharangovich is big, strong kid. Great shot release. Good defensively, long reach. Good on PK. A bit of late bloomer. Tore up KHL in 1st half. I'm certain they don't move him.
    McLeod is a good, physical bottom-6 center, has a ton of speed and good shot. Not much of a playmaker...more straight line speed and forechecking guy.
    Boqvist a speedy, skilled forward, but has found himself odd man out a lot and is most likely to be moved. Been saying for months here, he is best buy low on devils.
    Kuokkanen plays mostly wing with Hughes. He is staying here.
    Maltsev was C in AHL, and he is good on the dot, but has been mostly wing in NHL. Not a ton of speed, but very big, strong kid. Great stick-handling.
    Merkley has moments, but is more of an AHL 1c. Is small, but plays more physical than you'd expect.
    Pytlik is a young prospect with some stand still skill, but where he is not leading the rush. Probably becomes bottom-6 big body.
    Schnarr is a development project. Has good skills and plays good two-way game. Upside is probably playing as 3c on scoring 3rd line.
    Talvitie is smaller, slower, but more cerebral center, who probably peaks as swing/depth player. And probably at wing.

    I think MIN needs more offensive playmaking top-six C. If true, Zacha and Boqvist probably would be closest fit stylistically.
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    Apr. 19, 2021 at 8:22 p.m.
    #14
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    "worser"
    Lol

    They could do 4-4-1, and put forwards like Foligno, Greenway at risk.


    Who cares about greenway being exposed. He's gone back n to sucking

    You are forgetting parise will waive, allowing wi Linn d to protect foligno

    Yes worser. To think wi li d would trade a good young dynamic dman for an older, trash player / contract in pk subban is laughable

    No would have to pay a team to take on PK subban
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 8:32 p.m.
    #15
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    Johnson doesn't waive his NTC for Jersey. Knowing he won't be selected by Seattle, Suter waives his NMC, He helps his Wild team allowing them to protect Dumba
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 8:40 p.m.
    #16
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    Quoting: ModanoisCool
    Who cares about greenway being exposed. He's gone back n to sucking

    You are forgetting parise will waive, allowing wi Linn d to protect foligno

    Yes worser. To think wi li d would trade a good young dynamic dman for an older, trash player / contract in pk subban is laughable

    No would have to pay a team to take on PK subban


    Ha.
    You are clearly not paying attention to Subbans game.
    Or the English language.

    (Also, Parise won’t waive...)
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 8:40 p.m.
    #17
    Patient gm
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    "worser"
    Lol

    They could do 4-4-1, and put forwards like Foligno, Greenway at risk.


    Pay no attention to him. It’s his 3rd or 4th account in the last half year.

    Personally i wouldn’t mind having greenway go to Seattle. He’s 6’6 which you can’t teach, but I don’t like his stick handling, passing, vision, playmaking or shot. He’s just big enough to get in the way and crash the net. This year it’s been paying off, but I’d rather cut him loose and keep dumba. Him being the obvious choice for Seattle with his age, cap, etc
    NHLfan10506 and zreich4 liked this.
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 8:51 p.m.
    #18
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    Quoting: palhal
    Johnson doesn't waive his NTC for Jersey. Knowing he won't be selected by Seattle, Suter waives his NMC, He helps his Wild team allowing them to protect Dumba


    In 2017, of all the Hartnells and Girardi’s and Bieksa’s and Staals and Nash’s and Callahans that everyone said would waive, actually waived?
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 9:32 p.m.
    #19
    LongtimeLeafsufferer
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    In 2017, of all the Hartnells and Girardi’s and Bieksa’s and Staals and Nash’s and Callahans that everyone said would waive, actually waived?


    Certainly you the players mentioned don't compare to Johnson's situation. Almost exclusively the players mentioned went to from poor teams to good teams. In Callahan's case it was a meaningless LTIR trade. Johnson with 3 years remaining on his contract, why does he waive from the Cup champs to New Jersey?
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 9:40 p.m.
    #20
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    Quoting: palhal
    Certainly you the players mentioned don't compare to Johnson's situation. Almost exclusively the players mentioned went to from poor teams to good teams. In Callahan's case it was a meaningless LTIR trade. Johnson with 3 years remaining on his contract, why does he waive from the Cup champs to New Jersey?


    My confusion.

    When you said Johnson waived - thought you were talking about Erik Johnson waiving NMC from Colorado to be exposed in expansion draft.

    Now, I realize, Johnson from TBL waiving his NTC to be dealt to NJD.

    On the Colorado Johnson (I don’t think he waives), my 2017 examples work.

    On the TB Johnson, I have no idea if he would waive NTC. TBL fans seem eager to deal him. I was just using an example that came from Lightning fan.
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 10:20 p.m.
    #21
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    My confusion.

    When you said Johnson waived - thought you were talking about Erik Johnson waiving NMC from Colorado to be exposed in expansion draft.

    Now, I realize, Johnson from TBL waiving his NTC to be dealt to NJD.

    On the Colorado Johnson (I don’t think he waives), my 2017 examples work.

    On the TB Johnson, I have no idea if he would waive NTC. TBL fans seem eager to deal him. I was just using an example that came from Lightning fan.


    Yea I think some NMC guys who have no chance of being selected by Seattle will waive their NMC for the draft, which will allow there current team to be stronger as it allow them to protect another player.
    Yep, lots of Tampa fans want to trade their NTCs guys include Tyler Johnson. But these players have no motivation to leave Tampa.
    Apr. 19, 2021 at 10:23 p.m.
    #22
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    Quoting: palhal
    Yea I think some NMC guys who have no chance of being selected by Seattle will waive their NMC for the draft, which will allow there current team to be stronger as it allow them to protect another player.
    Yep, lots of Tampa fans want to trade their NTCs guys include Tyler Johnson. But these players have no motivation to leave Tampa.


    Few will waive NMC, and few will waive NTC.
    History guides us.
     
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