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Forums/Armchair-GM

Interesting swap

Created by: papishark
Team: 2021-22 San Jose Sharks
Initial Creation Date: May 3, 2021
Published: May 3, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Two guys who need a change of scenery. Laine is a little better on paper, but also more expensive and less years under contract more than likely. What are your thoughts?
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
3$7,000,000
1$1,500,000
1$800,000
2$2,000,000
2$800,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$925,000
3$4,500,000
3$3,500,000
Trades
1.
SJS
  1. Laine, Patrik [RFA Rights]
2.
SJS
SEA
  1. Gambrell, Dylan [RFA Rights]
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the COL
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
2022
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the MIN
2023
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$72,280,363$0$1,407,500$9,219,637
Left WingCentreRight Wing
$7,000,000$7,000,000
C, RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$8,000,000$8,000,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$4,725,000$4,725,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$2,108,696$2,108,696
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$5,625,000$5,625,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 1
$3,500,000$3,500,000
C
UFA - 6
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$778,333$778,333 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
C
RFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$800,000$800,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
LD
UFA - 1
$4,500,000$4,500,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$2,250,000$2,250,000
LD/RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$10,000,000$10,000,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$800,000$800,000
G
RFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$796,667$796,667
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$5,280,000$5,280,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$7,000,000$7,000,000
LD/RD
NMC
UFA - 5
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LD
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$725,000$725,000 ($0$0$0$0)
G
RFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$776,667$776,667 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$110,000$110K)
C, LW
UFA - 1

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May 3, 2021 at 7:29 p.m.
#1
What in tarnation
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CBJ declines. They have too much to lose here, and this doesn't solve their root problems in the slightest.
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May 3, 2021 at 7:32 p.m.
#2
Hop on the Slaftrain
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Thats quite a low offer for Danault
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May 3, 2021 at 7:38 p.m.
#3
Grierless Sharks Fan
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Thats quite a low offer for Danault


Thought so too, but he does seem to have regressed a little.
May 3, 2021 at 7:58 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: justaBoss
CBJ declines. They have too much to lose here, and this doesn't solve their root problems in the slightest.


Okay but have you considered Laine isn't really very good nor a solver of said problems?
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May 3, 2021 at 8:03 p.m.
#5
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Danault declines, he will probably get around 4-5, also you'd have to add something for CBJ to accept
May 3, 2021 at 8:14 p.m.
#6
What in tarnation
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Quoting: MelonVK
Okay but have you considered Laine isn't really very good nor a solver of said problems?


I dunno what moving Laine for a lesser winger would solve either.

Laine has his problems, but it's not like Meier doesn't come without one either. That QO of his is a huge red flag.
May 3, 2021 at 8:19 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: justaBoss
I dunno what moving Laine for a lesser winger would solve either.

Laine has his problems, but it's not like Meier doesn't come without one either. That QO of his is a huge red flag.


Meier is a really good player though
May 3, 2021 at 8:21 p.m.
#8
Thread Starter
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Quoting: MelonVK
Meier is a really good player though


I figured its a somewhat equal swap. PPG is very similar but people still want Laine to be something he wont be
May 3, 2021 at 8:26 p.m.
#9
Vegan Commie Hipster
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Interesting swap indeed!

Timo with much better underlying numbers tho

A bit older in fairness
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May 3, 2021 at 8:31 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: papishark
I figured its a somewhat equal swap. PPG is very similar but people still want Laine to be something he wont be


Laine is a really good scorer. That along with being #2 overall is gonna make his value last for a long time. But his team gets caved in with him on the ice. Meier is a net positive player at worst, with a few insane seasons behind him where he absolutely demolishes opponents without giving much back. He's not in great form now, but I'd rather bet on him returning to it than Laine developing a bunch of skills he just doesn't have at this point in his career.
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May 3, 2021 at 8:34 p.m.
#11
What in tarnation
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Quoting: MelonVK
Meier is a really good player though


I don't really buy the idea of Laine being considered bad either. Statistically speaking this year is huge anomaly compared to the few earlier ones, in which Laine respectively has been better than Meier is.

It would be shortsighted to forget all things Laine had achieved in WPG after having a 25-game long slump of games he was bad in Columbus. Kekäläinen is not one to make shortsighted moves if you ask me.
May 3, 2021 at 8:57 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: justaBoss
I don't really buy the idea of Laine being considered bad either. Statistically speaking this year is huge anomaly compared to the few earlier ones, in which Laine respectively has been better than Meier is.

It would be shortsighted to forget all things Laine had achieved in WPG after having a 25-game long slump of games he was bad in Columbus. Kekäläinen is not one to make shortsighted moves if you ask me.


I think you're using some surface level statistics right there if you're saying Laine performed better. Meier has been at the very top of the league in terms of driving offense pretty recently while still being really good defensively. Laine has never had a single season where is offensive ability outweighs his anchoring defensive struggles.
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May 3, 2021 at 9:04 p.m.
#13
What in tarnation
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Quoting: MelonVK
I think you're using some surface level statistics right there if you're saying Laine performed better. Meier has been at the very top of the league in terms of driving offense pretty recently while still being really good defensively. Laine has never had a single season where is offensive ability outweighs his anchoring defensive struggles.


Surface level...well goals and points. To be fair those are the ones that matter the most. At the end of the day this is a scoring game - the one who scores more wins.

Lemme put it this way - Laine this year has been bad and hid performance is definitely more erratic but his ceiling justifies a $10M contract should he achieve that. His QO is $7,5M.

Meier is constantly a good top-6 winger and I reckon his ceiling could justify a $7,5M contract. His QO is $10M.

Both assets have their issues. In theory that swap could work, but if Laine finds his game and reaches that potential, Columbus is going to lose both in terms of player and contract. This is why I said in the first comment that CBJ simply has too much to lose here. And it still wouldn't solve that center problem.

Meier does benefit from having centers such as Couture and Hertl. It's a total mystery how he would fare with the likes of Texier and Roslovic. It goes without saying they're a step down of those two.
May 3, 2021 at 9:13 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: justaBoss
Surface level...well goals and points. To be fair those are the ones that matter the most. At the end of the day this is a scoring game - the one who scores more wins.

Lemme put it this way - Laine this year has been bad and hid performance is definitely more erratic but his ceiling justifies a $10M contract should he achieve that. His QO is $7,5M.

Meier is constantly a good top-6 winger and I reckon his ceiling could justify a $7,5M contract. His QO is $10M.

Both assets have their issues. In theory that swap could work, but if Laine finds his game and reaches that potential, Columbus is going to lose both in terms of player and contract. This is why I said in the first comment that CBJ simply has too much to lose here. And it still wouldn't solve that center problem.

Meier does benefit from having centers such as Couture and Hertl. It's a total mystery how he would fare with the likes of Texier and Roslovic. It goes without saying they're a step down of those two.


If I come into the NHL and score 40 goals, my team mates score 0, and my opponents score 100 while I'm on the ice, are those strong numbers, statistically speaking?

Laine is basically a soft version of that. He is *consistently* making sure the ice tilts in the opposing team's favor. He takes sooo many shots, and yet his team manages to shoot less than his opponents with him on the ice.

Meier is having a pretty average season for an NHLer, slightly outscoring his opponents, but he has seasons in the past where he's scoring like crazy, making his teammates score like crazy, and making his opponents score less than they usually do.

And then you add in factors like teammates, opponents, opposition goaltending, and all of a sudden you have expected goal measures that tell us Meier is light years ahead of Laine. Now - these stats do sometimes miss out on an above average shooter - like Laine. Meier is more average to slightly worse actually in terms of shooter effects. But it doesn't even begin to put a dent in the *massive* gap between them.

Meier has elite seasons behind him. Laine only gets above average if you very generously take his shot into account. I wouldn't pay Laine $4m for any of his previous seasons. Meier has seasons worth a cap hit of like $10-11m.
May 3, 2021 at 9:15 p.m.
#15
What in tarnation
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Quoting: MelonVK
If I come into the NHL and score 40 goals, my team mates score 0, and my opponents score 100 while I'm on the ice, are those strong numbers, statistically speaking?

Laine is basically a soft version of that. He is *consistently* making sure the ice tilts in the opposing team's favor. He takes sooo many shots, and yet his team manages to shoot less than his opponents with him on the ice.

Meier is having a pretty average season for an NHLer, slightly outscoring his opponents, but he has seasons in the past where he's scoring like crazy, making his teammates score like crazy, and making his opponents score less than they usually do.

And then you add in factors like teammates, opponents, opposition goaltending, and all of a sudden you have expected goal measures that tell us Meier is light years ahead of Laine. Now - these stats do sometimes miss out on an above average shooter - like Laine. Meier is more average to slightly worse actually in terms of shooter effects. But it doesn't even begin to put a dent in the *massive* gap between them.

Meier has elite seasons behind him. Laine only gets above average if you very generously take his shot into account. I wouldn't pay Laine $4m for any of his previous seasons. Meier has seasons worth a cap hit of like $10-11m.


Well it seems our opinions on these players differ way too much to hold a reasonable discussion really.
May 4, 2021 at 2:45 a.m.
#16
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Quoting: justaBoss
Well it seems our opinions on these players differ way too much to hold a reasonable discussion really.


Sorry for being so unreasonable!
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May 4, 2021 at 6:38 a.m.
#17
What in tarnation
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Quoting: MelonVK
Sorry for being so unreasonable!


I don't think you were unreasonable in the slightest actually, you had some good points here and there.

I suppose it comes to how one sees the potential behind Laine. I for one see a lot of potential behind him, but I'm not that surprised if some people didn't.

It might be a personal bias really. I tend to believe in my fellow Finn's ability more than others.
 
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