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unrealistic idea since all habs fans are calling for webers head

Created by: Wqrrior
Team: 2020-21 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: May 7, 2021
Published: May 7, 2021
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May 7, 2021 at 2:07 a.m.
#1
WentWughes
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How does this help Montreal? The hate on Weber is pretty stupid.

Weber is easily our 2nd/3rd best defender on the team and yet people have no problem with Edmundson continue to play on our top 4 when he's not even an NHL defender.
May 7, 2021 at 2:15 a.m.
#2
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
How does this help Montreal? The hate on Weber is pretty stupid.

Weber is easily our 2nd/3rd best defender on the team and yet people have no problem with Edmundson continue to play on our top 4 when he's not even an NHL defender.


i think his issue is that, when he makes any mistakes, they are all obvious and quite impactful. They aren't easy to cover up for. In a reactionary market where opinions change at the snap of the fingers, waves of hate are bound to follow him after a rough game.

I agree that the posts are stupid. I know I have a reputation of bold opinions among the habs fans, but this is more just a late night boredom post of following the nightly trend than something that I actually think would work - given the title.
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May 7, 2021 at 2:15 a.m.
#3
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
How does this help Montreal? The hate on Weber is pretty stupid.

Weber is easily our 2nd/3rd best defender on the team and yet people have no problem with Edmundson continue to play on our top 4 when he's not even an NHL defender.


Only Gustafsson have been worse than Weber
You can’t say **** on Edmundson, he is our most steady dman this year. If I had to choose between Weber or any other dman on the team, I’d take the other dman outside Gustafsson over Weber. Petry Edmundson Romanov Kulak are all an edge over Weber, after Chiarot Merrill Gustafsson are close, maybe Chiarot better than those 3
May 7, 2021 at 2:17 a.m.
#4
WentWughes
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Quoting: GMs
Only Gustafsson have been worse than Weber
You can’t say **** on Edmundson, he is our most steady dman this year. If I had to choose between Weber or any other dman on the team, I’d take the other dman outside Gustafsson over Weber. Petry Edmundson Romanov Kulak are all an edge over Weber, after Chiarot Merrill Gustafsson are close, maybe Chiarot better than those 3


You do realize that Edmundson has the 6th most giveaways league wide right? Don't say he's steady. He can't complete a pass and has 0 offensive ability. He's literally the definition of a pylon.

IMO the order of Best to Worse

Petry
Weber
Romanov
Kulak
Chiarot
Merrill
Edmundson
May 7, 2021 at 2:19 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
You do realize that Edmundson has the 6th most giveaways league wide right? Don't say he's steady. He can't complete a pass and has 0 offensive ability. He's literally the definition of a pylon.

IMO the order of Best to Worse

Petry
Weber
Romanov
Kulak
Chiarot
Merrill
Edmundson


Maybe Edmundson first pass isn’t good but only Kulak have a good first pass and Petry 1 game out of 2.
Petry
Kulak
Romanov
Edmundson
Chiarot
Weber
Merrill
Gustafsson
May 7, 2021 at 2:21 a.m.
#6
WentWughes
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Quoting: GMs
Maybe Edmundson first pass isn’t good but only Kulak have a good first pass and Petry 1 game out of 2.
Petry
Kulak
Romanov
Edmundson
Chiarot
Weber
Merrill
Gustafsson


I don't know why you are underrating Weber so much, he's well rounded everywhere and is our leader when we are on the ice. The top 4 for me are interchangeable, but Edmundson is definitely our 6th best defender, and I'd take half of Laval's defense over him.
May 7, 2021 at 2:25 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I don't know why you are underrating Weber so much, he's well rounded everywhere and is our leader when we are on the ice. The top 4 for me are interchangeable, but Edmundson is definitely our 6th best defender, and I'd take half of Laval's defense over him.


Weber do one or two good passes or decent play in an entire game
He can handle the puck, can’t shoot and can’t pass
He creates turnovers like crazy and crosscheck everything he seed cause he’s always late on the play. He can’t keep up
May 7, 2021 at 2:26 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
You do realize that Edmundson has the 6th most giveaways league wide right? Don't say he's steady. He can't complete a pass and has 0 offensive ability. He's literally the definition of a pylon.

IMO the order of Best to Worse

Petry
Weber
Romanov
Kulak
Chiarot
Merrill
Edmundson


Most of why I'm disliked by the MTL fanbase is because I have resistance to the fans and media assessments of Romanov and Caufield. Those players are difficult to criticize without being jumped on. It's difficult to elaborate on the forum setting why I feel the way I do about them, I've gone in greater detail on discord, but my comments here make it seem as if I hate the players, when that's untrue.

Still, I think some of the hype entering the season has boosted in the fans mind what they are getting.

I have GMs blocked (literally the only person on this website), so I missed his comment. It seems like a reactionary and quite extreme comment, pretty much summarizing why I made this post to begin with.

Back to the original point - I think Edmundson gets helped on the eye test because he's paired with Petry who hides many of his faults. But I think Chiarot is forced to eat more minutes than he should be. First pair minutes as an ideally third pair guy - he's solid when used right. MTL's done a pretty good job with Ben, though. Nonetheless, Romanov has easier minutes, and as such I think he gets a better look by the eye test. I think more would be exposed of him if he was facing teams first lines on a nightly basis.

I still have to laud you for having a critical take of Edmundson. I find that many habs fans are not critical with their players and are over optimistic to only see the good in everyone. This past comment alone has gained a lot of respect.

I hope I don't sound like a habs hater in this comment. I just look at it more critically (and often at a more extreme level to compensate the opposite direction as pushed by the media).

I'm still intrigued - what's your guys solution to this blue line moving forward, especially given the confining cap of next year?
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May 7, 2021 at 2:27 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I don't know why you are underrating Weber so much, he's well rounded everywhere and is our leader when we are on the ice. The top 4 for me are interchangeable, but Edmundson is definitely our 6th best defender, and I'd take half of Laval's defense over him.


Weber has been so ****ing **** this year it’s unbelievable. Edmundson has been a beast defensively. Petry has more turnovers, and marner has a **** tone, so is marner a bad passer and player now?
May 7, 2021 at 2:31 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
Weber has been so ****ing **** this year it’s unbelievable. Edmundson has been a beast defensively. Petry has more turnovers, and marner has a **** tone, so is marner a bad passer and player now?


**insert michael jackson popcorn gif here**
May 7, 2021 at 2:51 a.m.
#11
WentWughes
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Quoting: Wqrrior
Most of why I'm disliked by the MTL fanbase is because I have resistance to the fans and media assessments of Romanov and Caufield. Those players are difficult to criticize without being jumped on. It's difficult to elaborate on the forum setting why I feel the way I do about them, I've gone in greater detail on discord, but my comments here make it seem as if I hate the players, when that's untrue.

Still, I think some of the hype entering the season has boosted in the fans mind what they are getting.

I have GMs blocked (literally the only person on this website), so I missed his comment. It seems like a reactionary and quite extreme comment, pretty much summarizing why I made this post to begin with.

Back to the original point - I think Edmundson gets helped on the eye test because he's paired with Petry who hides many of his faults. But I think Chiarot is forced to eat more minutes than he should be. First pair minutes as an ideally third pair guy - he's solid when used right. MTL's done a pretty good job with Ben, though. Nonetheless, Romanov has easier minutes, and as such I think he gets a better look by the eye test. I think more would be exposed of him if he was facing teams first lines on a nightly basis.

I still have to laud you for having a critical take of Edmundson. I find that many habs fans are not critical with their players and are over optimistic to only see the good in everyone. This past comment alone has gained a lot of respect.

I hope I don't sound like a habs hater in this comment. I just look at it more critically (and often at a more extreme level to compensate the opposite direction as pushed by the media).

I'm still intrigued - what's your guys solution to this blue line moving forward, especially given the confining cap of next year?


You definitely don't seem like a hater and I completely agree with everything that you have said. The one thing I have to say is that Chiarot was given similar minutes last year and handled them fine, so there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to handle them this year. I don't think it's the perfect fit (ideally he's playing top 4 time).

For next year, I have absolutely no idea. The guys who I would like to leave have multiple years left on their contracts and likely be impossible to move. In the Ideal world it's

???? - Weber
Kulak - Petry
Romanov - ????

There's not a guy in our system who could play the 1st line so that would have to come from free agency (Alec Martinez or Vince Dunn come to mind). If we're going to play Romanov 1st line, then we absolutely need a very good 2nd pairing LHD to play behind him. To sum things up, we need a top 4 puck moving defender LHD.
May 7, 2021 at 2:56 a.m.
#12
WentWughes
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
Weber has been so ****ing **** this year it’s unbelievable. Edmundson has been a beast defensively. Petry has more turnovers, and marner has a **** tone, so is marner a bad passer and player now?


Petry has more turnovers because he's an offensive defensemen and is trying to create offense. He takes chances to create offense from the backend... what is Edmundson doing? His tranisition game is trash. You can't be a beast defensively while creating having that many turnovers.
May 7, 2021 at 2:59 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Petry has more turnovers because he's an offensive defensemen and is trying to create offense. He takes chances to create offense from the backend... what is Edmundson doing? His tranisition game is trash. You can't be a beast defensively while creating having that many turnovers.

It’s called defence. THE ACTION OF DEFENDING FROM OR RESISTING ATTACK

He doesn’t allow the other team to score. He keeps the puck out of his net. he blocks shots, hits, blocks passes. He’s not offensive. Which is fine when you don’t allow goals
May 7, 2021 at 3:02 a.m.
#14
WentWughes
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
It’s called defence. THE ACTION OF DEFENDING FROM OR RESISTING ATTACK

He doesn’t allow the other team to score. He keeps the puck out of his net. he blocks shots, hits, blocks passes. He’s not offensive. Which is fine when you don’t allow goals


You win hockey games by scoring more than the opponent. When Edmundson is on the ice, the scoring chances tilt in favour of the opponent. This is not good. That's all that has to be said.
May 7, 2021 at 3:06 a.m.
#15
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
You win hockey games by scoring more than the opponent. When Edmundson is on the ice, the scoring chances tilt in favour of the opponent. This is not good. That's all that has to be said.


+25 Meaning we score more when he’s on the ice than we give up.
May 7, 2021 at 3:07 a.m.
#16
WentWughes
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
+25 Meaning we score more when he’s on the ice than we give up.


+/- is one of the most useless stats in the NHL. Please counter with something valid.
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May 7, 2021 at 3:14 a.m.
#17
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
+/- is one of the most useless stats in the NHL. Please counter with something valid.


You said you win games by scoring more goals than the opponent, when he’s on the ice we do. +/- isn’t great all the time.

For example a lw. He could be elite offensively and has great defence men behind him to bail him out. But for a defensemen, Especially one with very little points +/- can be used.

You tried to make the stupid argument that turnovers mean bad at defence when defence is without the puck. You then tried to say we must score more goals than the other team to win, so I told you that we do with him on the ice, hence the +25.

You may not like +/- because some people told you not too. But while judging curtain circumstances such as Edmundson’s season, it is useful
May 7, 2021 at 3:18 a.m.
#18
WentWughes
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
You said you win games by scoring more goals than the opponent, when he’s on the ice we do. +/- isn’t great all the time.

For example a lw. He could be elite offensively and has great defence men behind him to bail him out. But for a defensemen, Especially one with very little points +/- can be used.

You tried to make the stupid argument that turnovers mean bad at defence when defence is without the puck. You then tried to say we must score more goals than the other team to win, so I told you that we do with him on the ice, hence the +25.

You may not like +/- because some people told you not too. But while judging curtain circumstances such as Edmundson’s season, it is useful


It works the same with defenders. When the forwards are rushing up the neutral zone, it's when the defenders change. Edmundson could just step on the ice and then a goal is scored and he gets a + for literally nothing. The fact his points are so low are a clear indicator of how little +/- means. Turnovers do mean bad at defense because it's the defenders job to get the puck out of the zone, not just sit there and block them (hence being a pylon). You've given me two very bad invalid points that make 0 difference at all.
May 7, 2021 at 3:29 a.m.
#19
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Edited May 7, 2021 at 3:41 a.m.
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
It works the same with defenders. When the forwards are rushing up the neutral zone, it's when the defenders change. Edmundson could just step on the ice and then a goal is scored and he gets a + for literally nothing. The fact his points are so low are a clear indicator of how little +/- means. Turnovers do mean bad at defense because it's the defenders job to get the puck out of the zone, not just sit there and block them (hence being a pylon). You've given me two very bad invalid points that make 0 difference at all.


Let’s be clear, defence is without the puck, offence is with the puck. “Not just sit there and block them(hence being a pylon)” pylons are easy to move around, you call someone a pylon when they are bad and people skate around them. What you described is defence. I’m not saying he’s Nicklas lidstrom but he’s good defensively

Your argument for +/- is kinda dumb. Your telling me that he steps on the ice as we score multiple times per game? Also wouldn’t petry also have a huge +/-. Again +/- isn’t fantastic all the time, but in Edmundsons case it is as he doesn’t provide much offensively and he’s a d, meaning no crazy offence he’s providing to mess up the +/-


Your arguments are,
he’s bad at defence because he turns over the puck. NO. Defence is without the puck
We need to score more than the other team to win. We do with him on the ice, again +25

You may not like +/- and that’s fine
He’s been on the ice for 27 goals against this year. Nearly 1 every 2 games
But come up with a logical reason why he’s bad at defence. Not passing but defence
 
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