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One thing I frankly cannot understand

Created by: justaBoss
Team: 2021-22 Seattle Kraken
Initial Creation Date: May 13, 2021
Published: May 13, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Say your favorite team has a nice player that is likely going to be left exposed, and you wouldn't want to lose him. In your ACGM you decide to replace that one asset with a one you'd be happy to get rid of - and then you offer a low compensation for SEA in order to take the meh asset away. Too often do I see a 4th or 5th rounder or something virtually valueless attached to the asset, as if it'd change Seattle's mind. The most common examples of such players tend to be Zack Kassian, Ben Chiarot, Brent Burns, Tyler Johnson and Braden Holtby.

This is something I can't understand at all. Why on earth would Seattle agree to this? Why would they take the L and just leave it there?

The main point is this - if you want to propose that...
- Seattle takes another asset in place of an asset you'd rather not lose, you must offer value equivalent to the guy you'd rather not lose in compensation, otherwise it's just a direct L for Seattle in terms of player value.
- if you want to entirely dictate which piece Seattle can take from you, the compensation must be at least equivalent to the best player available on your team and also something from losing their freedom of choice.
- finally If you want Seattle to take a bad contract from you, you must offer a compensation valued the same as the most valuable asset you leave exposed, AND a compensation for taking a bad contract.

Sorry to burst your bubbles, but SEA is building a team to compete, not a junkyard where you can throw crap you have no use for anymore. Players like Kassian, Chiarot and Holtby aren't inherently bad per se, but they're far from the best options to pick from in their teams, and respectfully Seattle's willingness to take these kind of secondary assets is very dependent on their other choices from different teams. For instance with Holtby is extremely unlikely they'd take the guy as there's potentially available such options as Hill/Kuemper, Khudobin, Talbot, Allen, Murray/Gustavsson, Vanecek/Samsonov etc.

Here's an example of how SEA is certainly not going to build their team.
Trades
1.
SEA
  1. Larsson, Jacob
  2. 2021 5th round pick (EDM)
ANA
2.
SEA
  1. Speers, Blake [RFA Rights]
  2. 2022 4th round pick (ARI)
ARI
3.
SEA
  1. Moore, John
  2. 2021 3rd round pick (BOS)
BOS
4.
SEA
  1. Okposo, Kyle
  2. 2021 2nd round pick (BOS)
BUF
5.
SEA
  1. Lucic, Milan
  2. 2021 2nd round pick (CGY)
  3. 2022 3rd round pick (CGY)
CGY
6.
SEA
  1. Gardiner, Jake
  2. 2021 3rd round pick (CAR)
CAR
7.
SEA
  1. De Haan, Calvin
  2. 2021 4th round pick (VAN)
CHI
8.
SEA
  1. Compher, J.T.
  2. Gilbert, Dennis [RFA Rights]
  3. 2022 5th round pick (COL)
COL
9.
SEA
  1. Nyquist, Gustav
  2. 2022 3rd round pick (TBL)
CBJ
10.
SEA
  1. Honka, Julius [RFA Rights]
  2. Sekera, Andrej
  3. 2021 4th round pick (DAL)
DAL
11.
SEA
  1. Pánik, Richard
  2. 2022 4th round pick (VGK)
DET
12.
SEA
  1. Kassian, Zack
  2. 2021 4th round pick (EDM)
EDM
13.
SEA
  1. Strålman, Anton
  2. 2022 3rd round pick (FLA)
FLA
14.
SEA
  1. Määttä, Olli
  2. 2022 4th round pick (LAK)
LAK
15.
SEA
  1. Soucy, Carson
  2. 2021 3rd round pick (PIT)
MIN
16.
SEA
  1. Chiarot, Ben
  2. 2021 4th round pick (MTL)
MTL
17.
SEA
  1. Grimaldi, Rocco
  2. 2021 4th round pick (COL)
NSH
18.
SEA
  1. Merkley, Nick [RFA Rights]
  2. 2022 5th round pick (NJD)
NJD
19.
SEA
  1. Komarov, Leo
  2. 2022 2nd round pick (NYI)
NYI
20.
SEA
  1. Howden, Brett [RFA Rights]
  2. 2023 4th round pick (NYR)
NYR
21.
SEA
  1. Daccord, Joey
  2. 2022 5th round pick (OTT)
OTT
22.
SEA
  1. Gostisbehere, Shayne
  2. 2021 4th round pick (PHI)
Additional Details:
Or Voracek or JVR
PHI
23.
SEA
  1. Aston-Reese, Zach [RFA Rights]
  2. 2022 4th round pick (PIT)
PIT
24.
SEA
  1. Burns, Brent
  2. Dahlén, Jonathan [Reserve List]
  3. 2021 3rd round pick (SJS)
SJS
25.
SEA
  1. Clifford, Kyle
  2. 2022 4th round pick (STL)
STL
26.
SEA
  1. Johnson, Tyler
  2. 2021 3rd round pick (TBL)
TBL
27.
SEA
  1. Dermott, Travis [RFA Rights]
  2. 2023 4th round pick (TOR)
TOR
28.
SEA
  1. Holtby, Braden
  2. 2022 4th round pick (VAN)
VAN
29.
SEA
  1. Dillon, Brenden
  2. 2021 4th round pick (WSH)
WSH
30.
SEA
  1. Niku, Sami
  2. 2023 4th round pick (WPG)
WPG
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the BOS
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the BOS
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the DAL
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the SEA
2022
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the NYI
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the FLA
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the LAK
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the STL
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the COL
Logo of the NJD
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the SEA
2023
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the NYR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the WPG
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the SEA
Logo of the SEA
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$81,500,000$72,388,225$0$0$9,111,775
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Nashville Predators
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$5,000,000$5,000,000
RW, C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$5,250,000$5,250,000
LW, RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,500,000$3,500,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$2,750,000$2,750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,050,000$4,050,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$1,375,000$1,375,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the New York Islanders
$3,000,000$3,000,000
RW, LW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$2,750,000$2,750,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$5,280,000$5,280,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$2,000,000$2,000,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$3,900,000$3,900,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Florida Panthers
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,750,000$1,750,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$4,550,000$4,550,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$3,333,225$3,333,225 ($2,208,225$2M$2,208,225$2M)
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Boston Bruins
$2,750,000$2,750,000 ($1,625,000$2M$1,625,000$2M)
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Dallas Stars
$1,500,000$1,500,000 ($375,000$375K$375,000$375K)
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
$1,200,000$1,200,000 ($75,000$75K$75,000$75K)
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Winnipeg Jets
$750,000$750,000 ($0$0$0$0)
LD/RD
UFA - 1

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May 13, 2021 at 12:15 p.m.
#1
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Rename the team to the Seattle Draft Picks
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May 13, 2021 at 12:17 p.m.
#2
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I get the point you are making, i just dont see Seattle drafting a team that results in them tanking for their first 4 years
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May 13, 2021 at 12:20 p.m.
#3
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Think of it as a double layered opportunity cost. The first consideration is what the value difference is between the player you want to protect and the next most likely selected player. As an example, of Minnesota wants to protect Greenway over Soucy the cost should theoretically be the equalizing value of those players were traded. I would argue a mid rd pick in this example.

The next consideration is whether Seattle is a credible threat to take the player you want to protect vs a similar player. In the Greenway/Soucy example Seattle is going to have their pick of middle 6 wingers and 2nd pair D so Seattle is theoretically indifferent to who they take. That means the cost is still likely a middle rd pick. And it’s this part that makes me think there is no leverage for Seattle to try and gain something for not taking Talbot even after his good season. There will be 3 younger quality goalies available and it would make very little sense for them to take Talbot.

But to your point, they aren’t taking Kassian for a 4th. Maybe a 2nd. But not a 4th.

PS: sorry that was long.
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May 13, 2021 at 12:26 p.m.
#4
Go leafs go
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Thank you. This needed to be said.

But I agree with you, it makes me kind of annoyed when you see trades like Holtby and a 4th for example. Holtby isn't going to be Seattle's top option.

But by the way, that Toronto one is realistic, I could see Seattle taking Dermott strait up, so if the leafs add a 4th, it would be enough I would think. There are a couple of other examples like that too (Niku for instance)
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May 13, 2021 at 12:27 p.m.
#5
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Completely agree with the 3rd point
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May 13, 2021 at 12:38 p.m.
#6
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Joseph and a 1 to take Johnson?
May 13, 2021 at 12:44 p.m.
#7
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: Bolts20Cup
Joseph and a 1 to take Johnson?


Nah bro. That Joseph+1st would probably protect TB from losing the best player available (most likely Gourde), but it doesn't justify taking that bad contract. The compensation is still lacking.

This is pretty much exactly that 3rd point I wrote there.
May 13, 2021 at 12:48 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: justaBoss
Nah bro. That Joseph+1st would probably protect TB from losing the best player available (most likely Gourde), but it doesn't justify taking that bad contract. The compensation is still lacking.

This is pretty much exactly that 3rd point I wrote there.


Take Gourde then
May 13, 2021 at 12:50 p.m.
#9
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: Bolts20Cup
Take Gourde then


That's the most likely scenario. Although I do believe TB will be dumping Johnson to Seattle as well in a separate trade. They need to shed up to $10M in cap and Tyjo could in theory accept a trade to return his home state.
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May 13, 2021 at 12:51 p.m.
#10
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Thank you. This needed to be said.

But I agree with you, it makes me kind of annoyed when you see trades like Holtby and a 4th for example. Holtby isn't going to be Seattle's top option.

But by the way, that Toronto one is realistic, I could see Seattle taking Dermott strait up, so if the leafs add a 4th, it would be enough I would think. There are a couple of other examples like that too (Niku for instance)


Some of them were meant to be more realistic than others - some of them just pure dumps. Balance in everything lol.

Still think TOR is taking Kerfoot though. There's not many centers available, but there's going to be more than enough bottom pair LHDs.
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May 13, 2021 at 12:53 p.m.
#11
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: jnowariak
Think of it as a double layered opportunity cost. The first consideration is what the value difference is between the player you want to protect and the next most likely selected player. As an example, of Minnesota wants to protect Greenway over Soucy the cost should theoretically be the equalizing value of those players were traded. I would argue a mid rd pick in this example.

The next consideration is whether Seattle is a credible threat to take the player you want to protect vs a similar player. In the Greenway/Soucy example Seattle is going to have their pick of middle 6 wingers and 2nd pair D so Seattle is theoretically indifferent to who they take. That means the cost is still likely a middle rd pick. And it’s this part that makes me think there is no leverage for Seattle to try and gain something for not taking Talbot even after his good season. There will be 3 younger quality goalies available and it would make very little sense for them to take Talbot.

But to your point, they aren’t taking Kassian for a 4th. Maybe a 2nd. But not a 4th.

PS: sorry that was long.


Personally I think the difference between Greenway and Soucy is more than a mid round pick. Also the second option after Greenway for Kraken to take is probably Marcus Foligno. That guy is solid.
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May 13, 2021 at 12:55 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: justaBoss
That's the most likely scenario. Although I do believe TB will be dumping Johnson to Seattle as well in a separate trade. They need to shed up to $10M in cap and Tyjo could in theory accept a trade to return his home state.


I definitely think Seattle is q of the 20 teams he approves 7/1
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May 13, 2021 at 12:56 p.m.
#13
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I get the point you are making, i just dont see Seattle drafting a team that results in them tanking for their first 4 years


Balance is important in everything. Taking future assets and bad contracts from teams that don't have much to offer in general is probably the more wise decision. They can gather the core pieces as they are from other teams then.

I'm pretty sold on that team having its top line consisting of players like Jordan Greenway, Jason Zucker, Yanni Gourde, Ryan Graves, Brent Burns etc.
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May 13, 2021 at 12:58 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: justaBoss
Balance is important in everything. Taking future assets and bad contracts from teams that don't have much to offer in general is probably the more wise decision. They can gather the core pieces as they are from other teams then.

I'm pretty sold on that team having its top line consisting of players like Jordan Greenway, Jason Zucker, Yanni Gourde, Ryan Graves, Brent Burns etc.


Building a fanbase that will buy out your stands is more important than tanking for futures. Seattle wants to be making the postseason year 1
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May 13, 2021 at 1:00 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: justaBoss
Personally I think the difference between Greenway and Soucy is more than a mid round pick. Also the second option after Greenway for Kraken to take is probably Marcus Foligno. That guy is solid.


I think Foligno is protected. Apparently Parise’s agent met with the team, likely discussing buyout or mutual termination. I disagree that there is that much difference in Soucy and Greenway, I’d actually argue Soucy is worth more so it’s all a big game until it happens. This was a good post though.
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May 13, 2021 at 1:01 p.m.
#16
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Building a fanbase that will buy out your stands is more important than tanking for futures. Seattle wants to be making the postseason year 1


Unlikely. Expansion teams in general are never successful at their start. I think it's going to be a long-term process.

As for Golden Knights, they were a huge exception in this, but honestly no one projected them to reach anywhere close the playoffs with that roster they built up.
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May 13, 2021 at 1:03 p.m.
#17
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: jnowariak
I think Foligno is protected. Apparently Parise’s agent met with the team, likely discussing buyout or mutual termination. I disagree that there is that much difference in Soucy and Greenway, I’d actually argue Soucy is worth more so it’s all a big game until it happens. This was a good post though.


I'm assuming that Parise is protected here. Until we get confirmation on that, I personally believe they will protect Parise, Zucc, Fiala and JEE.
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May 13, 2021 at 1:07 p.m.
#18
Go leafs go
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Quoting: justaBoss
Some of them were meant to be more realistic than others - some of them just pure dumps. Balance in everything lol.

Still think TOR is taking Kerfoot though. There's not many centers available, but there's going to be more than enough bottom pair LHDs.


I agree they'll probably take Kerfoot, but i's close to the point that a 4th would likely entice Seattle enough to take Dermott.
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May 13, 2021 at 3:24 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: justaBoss
I'm assuming that Parise is protected here. Until we get confirmation on that, I personally believe they will protect Parise, Zucc, Fiala and JEE.


I'm guessing they'll ask (or already have) for Suter and Parise to wave.
May 13, 2021 at 3:35 p.m.
#20
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: RedWing9119
I'm guessing they'll ask (or already have) for Suter and Parise to wave.


They'll probably ask. Whether they agree to do so is a different matter.

As said before, until we know more I assume they're must protects.
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May 13, 2021 at 4:04 p.m.
#21
Once a Kings Fan Too
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God, I love reading your stuff.

This could be your best team post yet.
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May 13, 2021 at 4:06 p.m.
#22
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
God, I love reading your stuff.

This could be your best team post yet.


Yay, I have a fan now lol.

Thanks a bunch cheers
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