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2021 Playoffs Discussion Thread

May 31, 2021 at 12:44 p.m.
#1476
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Well Habs-Leafs could be really boring for all but 5 minutes, but it's Habs-Leafs in a game 7 so idk


Watching the Isles is always boring.
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May 31, 2021 at 12:45 p.m.
#1477
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
Watching the Isles is always boring.


true, Trotz is one of the most effective but boring coach
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May 31, 2021 at 12:55 p.m.
#1478
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: yikes
Also - if Nylander gets traded.. thats just brutal. I gotta say Nylander has slapped all the critics (including myself) around this year and this playoffs. If he were to be traded, imo it would be so disrespectful. The kids put in work and doing all he can. Business is business but he's earned his pay and spot.


i mean if he gets traded for Jones and Jones extends who am I to complain
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May 31, 2021 at 1:11 p.m.
#1479
CELEBRINI IS A SHARK
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Quoting: aadoyle
i mean if he gets traded for Jones and Jones extends who am I to complain


The opinion on Jones varies so much tho lmao.

Tho I do think Marner (who CBJ had a lot of interest in) is conceivable. I’d have no idea what the trade would look like (Marner or Nylander).

I would love to see a minute eater on TOR tho. It would help them a lot (allow Rielly to see less elite comp). Jones - Muzzin eats like near 30 min in big games and then Rielly faces 2nd - 3rd pairs/ more Ozone starts. Could really be great for Reilly’s game (not a slight to him, just that it could see more production and quality).
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May 31, 2021 at 1:17 p.m.
#1480
CELEBRINI IS A SHARK
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Edited May 31, 2021 at 1:30 p.m.
A quick outlook on tonight;

This series has not seen the best of either team.. which is not good for either team.

MTL; they have what, zero blue end production, and they had petry lighting up the league. This could change/ needs too.

TOR; Matthews Marner ghosts. And they both had stellar years. They must perform. MUST.

MTL; Price who’s been good can be even better. He’s been great even, but we know Price can steal a game at anytime in the playoffs. MTL hopes it’s today, TOR hopes it’s not.

TOR; Campbell has yet to have a bad game. Hoping that stays true. He’s been amazing but he’ll have to continue against Price. He’s been a wall for this team.

MTL; Top guys need to step up.

TOR; Top guys need to step up.

What this spells to me is 4 scenarios:

1) An amazing game on both ends, back and forth.

2) One team is gonna pound the other

3) Both teams take a nap for 50 minutes.

4) Price wins the Series (also an apology to price cause I always doubt him)

The scariest thing is; MTL has better odds out of these 4 imo (1,3,4 favour Price/ MTL tbh, and 3 favours MTL cause Toronto hasn’t done it in the last 2 games). But Toronto should be better than they are. Either way can’t wait. Cheering for Campbell and Matthews, and on the flip side I’m cheering for Caufield, Suzuki.
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May 31, 2021 at 1:19 p.m.
#1481
Speak of the Devil
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Quoting: yikes
Ontario is super strict, were actually still in lockdown. I wouldn't say were swamped with COVID, nor would I say its really bad. Were just super strict trying to end the "third wave" but its been a while now. Lockdown for the last month/ couple months.

We'll be "freed" in June lol. Plus vaccine rollouts picking up fast.

Round 2 or 3 if TOR even moves on will see more fans potentially.


Wow, the U.S is way different compared to Canada. Everything is open and back to normal.

I feel bad for the 500 leaf fans that get to watch the Leafs lose game 7
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May 31, 2021 at 1:22 p.m.
#1482
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Quoting: Devil1122
Wow, the U.S is way different compared to Canada. Everything is open and back to normal.

I feel bad for the 500 leaf fans that get to watch the Leafs lose game 7


It’s a small and never enough gift to the FrontLine workers. It’s a free game for them (all fans are free tickets and health workers tonight).

But yeah Canada is being much more cautious which I’m
Not political at all so I’m just happy we’re slowly gonna be getting some normality soon.
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May 31, 2021 at 1:35 p.m.
#1483
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Reaves has a hearing for the Graves incident, i would think he gets at least a couple games
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May 31, 2021 at 1:37 p.m.
#1484
Save Ukrane, end war
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Quoting: Devil1122
Wow, the U.S is way different compared to Canada. Everything is open and back to normal.

I feel bad for the 500 leaf fans that get to watch the Leafs lose game 7


The issue is Canada has no vaccine manufacturers so our vaccine supply has been slow compared to the US. Primary reason for lockdowns or strict restrictions in certain provinces is because the ICUs and health care system overall was approaching or already in overcapacity. As more people get vaccinated and ICU beds are freed up from Covid patients, restrictions will start to ease. Unfortunately a large portion of people getting and transmitting covid are people eligible for the vaccine but have chosen not to get it.
May 31, 2021 at 1:48 p.m.
#1485
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Quoting: BigDaddyOvech
The issue is Canada has no vaccine manufacturers so our vaccine supply has been slow compared to the US. Primary reason for lockdowns or strict restrictions in certain provinces is because the ICUs and health care system overall was approaching or already in overcapacity. As more people get vaccinated and ICU beds are freed up from Covid patients, restrictions will start to ease. Unfortunately a large portion of people getting and transmitting covid are people eligible for the vaccine but have chosen not to get it.


We have a similar issue in the U.S. Alot of people have been vaccinated, but many chose not to get the vaccine for stupid reasons. Some people think the Government put something in the vaccine that will track you :/
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May 31, 2021 at 2:03 p.m.
#1486
Saskoiler for now
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Quoting: Devil1122
Is Covid bad in Ontario? Because only 500 fans seems way too low


It's just that Ontario has really strict Covid rules. If you look at some places in the states compared to Canada, Canada does not have more cases, they are just more strict. Even in Alberta and Saskatchewan, the most Conservative provinces, the Covid rules are still more strict than most places in the states.
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May 31, 2021 at 2:09 p.m.
#1487
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Quoting: Devil1122
We have a similar issue in the U.S. Alot of people have been vaccinated, but many chose not to get the vaccine for stupid reasons. Some people think the Government put something in the vaccine that will track you :/


like if they weren't using a tracking device already ( phones and electronics )
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May 31, 2021 at 2:21 p.m.
#1488
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I haven't seen people on here posting advanced stats explaining why Matthews and Marner are actually good, but to anyone that says that:

The only thing that matters is the results. Put these numbers in the garbage, I DON'T CARE and frankly no one should.

If you watch the games, you know these guys HAVEN'T. BEEN. GOOD. ENOUGH.

This is the problem with analytcal people... I won't name names but the problem with them is that they don't watch the games. They only care about numbers. If I have to choose between a player that has good analytics who plays 24 minutes a game at D and another that has elite analytics but barely plays 18-19 minutes a game (ahem, ahem, ahem, Vince Dunn) I'm taking the player playing 24 minutes the game
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May 31, 2021 at 2:40 p.m.
#1489
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«This is how I felt when BOS tied it up in 2013. The tying goal from Bergeron was so much more devastating to me than the game winner. Cause I knew the game winner was coming. Before the tying goal happened, there was hope. And I'm getting the same vibes. And I hope I'm wrong.»
-Steve Dangle, in the most recent podcast

I know not everyone likes the guy but man you better quote this comment if MTL wins tonight cause this is SO. WELL. SAID.
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May 31, 2021 at 3:22 p.m.
#1490
HockeyandMusic
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Quoting: Saskleaf
It's just that Ontario has really strict Covid rules. If you look at some places in the states compared to Canada, Canada does not have more cases, they are just more strict. Even in Alberta and Saskatchewan, the most Conservative provinces, the Covid rules are still more strict than most places in the states.


I have a winter home in Florida. The difference in their response and ours is night and day. However, they had a much more effective vaccination plan
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May 31, 2021 at 3:26 p.m.
#1491
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
I haven't seen people on here posting advanced stats explaining why Matthews and Marner are actually good, but to anyone that says that:

The only thing that matters is the results. Put these numbers in the garbage, I DON'T CARE and frankly no one should.

If you watch the games, you know these guys HAVEN'T. BEEN. GOOD. ENOUGH.

This is the problem with analytcal people... I won't name names but the problem with them is that they don't watch the games. They only care about numbers. If I have to choose between a player that has good analytics who plays 24 minutes a game at D and another that has elite analytics but barely plays 18-19 minutes a game (ahem, ahem, ahem, Vince Dunn) I'm taking the player playing 24 minutes the game


I can’t have a decent conversation with the analytics crowd because most of them never played the game and just rely on their stats. Some have played the game and they are obviously more fun to talk to and debate
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May 31, 2021 at 3:40 p.m.
#1492
CELEBRINI IS A SHARK
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Quoting: TheProductionLine
I can’t have a decent conversation with the analytics crowd because most of them never played the game and just rely on their stats. Some have played the game and they are obviously more fun to talk to and debate


Both ends up of spectrums - it’s not the whole crowd. Happens on both sides.

Just like fans who love guys who are terrible analytically and won’t take a word of advice. Then those who only go by analytics for a guy who has bad adv stats yet the guy still produces/ plays well and won’t take a word of advice. It goes both ways.

Similar to scouting at the combine. People think; poor results mean bad player. Whereas smart scouts don’t take the results as set in stone - but use what they see and the results to determine a verdict. Most notably, some solid scouts say: combine what you see and result to determine a players strengths, weaknesses and what these mean toward a players health and their injury proneness. Not to determine if a players is bad or good.

Like everything; it’s best to use hand in hand and find a healthy balance. Never to disregard one. I do think there’s a lot of analysts who don’t play the game who are actually smart and reliable. It’s just you more often remember the bad guys as they leave a bigger imprint.
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May 31, 2021 at 3:45 p.m.
#1493
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Quoting: yikes
Both ends up of spectrums - it’s not the whole crowd. Happens on both sides.

Just like fans who love guys who are terrible analytically and won’t take a word of advice. Then those who only go by analytics for a guy who has bad adv stats yet the guy still produces/ plays well and won’t take a word of advice. It goes both ways.

Similar to scouting at the combine. People think; poor results mean bad player. Whereas smart scouts don’t take the results as set in stone - but use what they see and the results to determine a verdict. Most notably, some solid scouts say: combine what you see and result to determine a players strengths, weaknesses and what these mean toward a players health and their injury proneness. Not to determine if a players is bad or good.

Like everything; it’s best to use hand in hand and find a healthy balance. Never to disregard one. I do think there’s a lot of analysts who don’t play the game who are actually smart and reliable. It’s just you more often remember the bad guys as they leave a bigger imprint.


Imo, to judge a player you have to combime analytics and eye test
May 31, 2021 at 3:51 p.m.
#1494
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Imo, to judge a player you have to combime analytics and eye test


Eye test will ALWAYS beat analytics because it provides context without which analytics cannot be useful
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May 31, 2021 at 4:06 p.m.
#1495
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Imo, to judge a player you have to combime analytics and eye test


Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Eye test will ALWAYS beat analytics because it provides context without which analytics cannot be useful


I agree with Habs but also kakko too a degree.

I've used it as an example many times from my team.

Karlsson had a fantastic game earlier this year (multi point too maybe cant remember), and his analytics on that same night were atrocious. And his overall adv stats on the year dipped after said great game. Like he truly played a great game and it was one of his better games of the year.

Now I'm always defending Karlsson from the hoards of hater/ other sharks fans. And I do agree he is not amazing nor is he worth 11mil. But his style of NEVER favored analytics and in his prime seasons with the Sens, he does not have good ADV numbers (from the historical ADV stats site I used). And that was displayed that night. As even with a amazing game he literally had like replacement level value on the ADV stats. Saying he basically was worth 700k while he put forth an elite showing of talent.

It's always best in tandem IMO as I still use numbers all the time but I do agree watching numbers and not the game can be a mighty hindrance at times.
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May 31, 2021 at 4:12 p.m.
#1496
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Reaves has a hearing for the Graves incident, i would think he gets at least a couple games


Taking RR out for 2 games should help calm things down. If Vegas is losing they will continue to escalate the physicality. And having RR in the press box should keep the Avs stars relatively safe.
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May 31, 2021 at 4:15 p.m.
#1497
Jinx god
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Imo, to judge a player you have to combime analytics and eye test


Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Eye test will ALWAYS beat analytics because it provides context without which analytics cannot be useful


Agree with both tbh. You can't say Zadorov is better than Hedman because of eye test, and you can't say Jonas Brodin is better than Hedman because of analytics, you need to have the full context to evaluate a player. I prefer eye test, but both are as needed to completely evaluate a player.
May 31, 2021 at 4:17 p.m.
#1498
CELEBRINI IS A SHARK
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Quoting: EsoYeezus69
Agree with both tbh. You can't say Zadorov is better than Hedman because of eye test, and you can't say Jonas Brodin is better than Hedman because of analytics, you need to have the full context to evaluate a player. I prefer eye test, but both are as needed to completely evaluate a player.


Can I just say I love Brodin
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May 31, 2021 at 4:19 p.m.
#1499
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Looks like Tavares is somewhat close to returning to the lineup. Won't be tonight, but if the Leafs win I wouldn't be surprised to see him play in the 2nd round. Great to see him skating and shooting today!
May 31, 2021 at 4:19 p.m.
#1500
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
I haven't seen people on here posting advanced stats explaining why Matthews and Marner are actually good, but to anyone that says that:

The only thing that matters is the results. Put these numbers in the garbage, I DON'T CARE and frankly no one should.

If you watch the games, you know these guys HAVEN'T. BEEN. GOOD. ENOUGH.

This is the problem with analytcal people... I won't name names but the problem with them is that they don't watch the games. They only care about numbers. If I have to choose between a player that has good analytics who plays 24 minutes a game at D and another that has elite analytics but barely plays 18-19 minutes a game (ahem, ahem, ahem, Vince Dunn) I'm taking the player playing 24 minutes the game


When an analytic fan said Dunn>Heiskanen I lost a lot of respect for them, but the eye test can be biased, and I've seen a lot of it. Like you said context is key to evaluate players.
 
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