Forums/Armchair-GM

If They Lose

Created by: Capsule
Initial Creation Date: May 30, 2021
Published: May 30 at 5:47
Team: 2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
Abruzzese, Nick3$825,000
Hirvonen, Roni3$875,000
Kokkonen, Mikko3$825,000
Niemelä, Topi3$825,000
Villeneuve, William3$825,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Juolevi, Olli1$750,000
Woll, Joseph2$750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Hyman, Zach4$4,500,000
Rittich, David1$1,500,000
Armia, Joel4$2,750,000
Coleman, Blake4$4,500,000
Gudbranson, Erik1$750,000
Trades
TOR
    SEA
    1. Kerfoot, Alexander
    TOR
    1. Juolevi, Olli [RFA Rights]
    2. Miller, J.T.
    VAN
    1. Rielly, Morgan
    2. Robertson, Nicholas
    TOR
    1. Crouse, Lawson
    ARI
    1. Dermott, Travis [RFA Rights]
    TOR
    1. Severson, Damon
    2. Zacha, Pavel
    3. 2021 1st round pick (NYI)
    NJD
    1. Holl, Justin
    2. Nylander, William
    3. 2021 5th round pick (TOR)
    Retained Salary Transactions
    • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2021
    NYI
    TOR
    TOR
    2022
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    2023
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$81,500,000$81,095,749$0$400,000$404,251
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    Coleman, Blake
    $4,500,000
    LW, RW
    NTC
    UFA - 6
    TOR
    Matthews, Auston
    $11,640,250
    C
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Marner, Mitchell
    $10,903,000
    RW
    UFA - 4
    VAN
    Miller, J.T.
    $5,250,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 2
    TOR
    Tavares, John
    $11,000,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    TOR
    Hyman, Zach
    $4,500,000
    LW, RW
    NMC
    UFA - 7
    TOR
    Mikheyev, Ilya
    $1,645,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    NJD
    Zacha, Pavel
    $2,250,000
    LW, C
    RFA - 1
    Armia, Joel
    $2,750,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 4
    ARI
    Crouse, Lawson
    $1,533,333
    LW
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Engvall, Pierre
    $1,250,000
    LW, C
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Anderson, Joey
    $750,000
    RW
    RFA - 2
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    TOR
    Muzzin, Jake
    $5,625,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Brodie, TJ
    $5,000,000
    RD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Campbell, Jack
    $1,650,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    TOR
    Sandin, Rasmus
    $894,167
    LD
    RFA - 1
    NJD
    Severson, Damon
    $4,166,666
    RD
    UFA - 2
    TOR
    Rittich, David
    $1,500,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Juolevi, Olli
    $750,000
    LD
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Liljegren, Timothy
    $863,333
    RD
    RFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Gudbranson, Erik
    $750,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    TOR
    Brooks, Adam
    $725,000
    C
    RFA - 1

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    May 30 at 6:13
    #1
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 8,655
    Likes: 2,995
    if they lose they should get horribly ripped off in trades and make the team worse?
    sedin33 and remowilliams liked this.
    May 30 at 6:13
    #2
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,141
    Likes: 237
    Canucks hang up the phone.

    have you lost your mind?
    May 30 at 6:17
    #3
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 672
    Likes: 89
    Quoting: yztnuK
    Canucks hang up the phone.

    have you lost your mind?


    No I haven't, as a neutral fan I think it's a fair deal.
    May 30 at 6:18
    #4
    Aviation go brrrrrrr
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 12,636
    Likes: 6,218
    Quoting: yztnuK
    Canucks hang up the phone.

    have you lost your mind?


    Good thing because TOR hangs up too. Rielly is elite where as Miller is just great and Juolevi will become a number 4-5 at best. This is a laughable offer. Add a first and a 2nd going to TOR and you're in the ballpark
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    May 30 at 6:19
    #5
    Aviation go brrrrrrr
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 12,636
    Likes: 6,218
    Marner is the one that needs to f**k off.

    He's been INVISIBLE for what, now, FIFTEEN playoff games???

    This is unacceptable.
    OldNYIfan, Boomer125 and athrin liked this.
    May 30 at 6:21
    #6
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 672
    Likes: 89
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    if they lose they should get horribly ripped off in trades and make the team worse?


    I think the value is fair. The fw-group is more balanced and built for the playoffs, however the defense and goaltending is still thin and need some work.
    May 30 at 6:23
    #7
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,141
    Likes: 237
    Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
    Good thing because TOR hangs up too. Rielly is elite where as Miller is just great and Juolevi will become a number 4-5 at best. This is a laughable offer. Add a first and a 2nd going to TOR and you're in the ballpark


    i must missed the time Rielly won the norris, led his team in points, had more than one 10 goal season, had more than one 50 point season.
    ya real elite.......
    GoodIdeaAtTheTime and athrin liked this.
    May 30 at 6:25
    #8
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 672
    Likes: 89
    Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
    Good thing because TOR hangs up too. Rielly is elite where as Miller is just great and Juolevi will become a number 4-5 at best. This is a laughable offer. Add a first and a 2nd going to TOR and you're in the ballpark


    I wouldn't call Rielly elite, he's great, exactly like Miller. TOR sends the better prospect due to Miller's extra contract year.
    May 30 at 6:26
    #9
    Aviation go brrrrrrr
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 12,636
    Likes: 6,218
    Quoting: yztnuK
    i must missed the time Rielly won the norris, led his team in points, had more than one 10 goal season, had more than one 50 point season.
    ya real elite.......


    He's been one of the better players on the ice for TOR since the beginning of this series, has barely allowed ANY scoring while on the ice, carried the Leafs' D-core from 2017-2020, is an elite puck mover, do you want me to go on?
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    May 30 at 6:26
    #10
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 8,655
    Likes: 2,995
    Quoting: Capsule
    I think the value is fair. The fw-group is more balanced and built for the playoffs, however the defense and goaltending is still thin and need some work.


    i mean, it's not. That Nylander trade alone is just awful. This team is worse and the reason guys like Coleman are effective is that they dont use him in a top 6 role. He's not a 1st liner at all and Zacha is just am absolute black hole defensively, he gets caved in in shots and chances. Juolevi is trash too
    May 30 at 6:31
    #11
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 672
    Likes: 89
    Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
    He's been one of the better players on the ice for TOR since the beginning of this series, has barely allowed ANY scoring while on the ice, carried the Leafs' D-core from 2017-2020, is an elite puck mover, do you want me to go on?


    That he's been carrying Leafs' D-core doesn't say much about his status as an elite/great defenseman. He would't be #1 on many teams.
    yztnuK and remowilliams liked this.
    May 30 at 6:34
    #12
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 672
    Likes: 89
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    i mean, it's not. That Nylander trade alone is just awful. This team is worse and the reason guys like Coleman are effective is that they dont use him in a top 6 role. He's not a 1st liner at all and Zacha is just am absolute black hole defensively, he gets caved in in shots and chances. Juolevi is trash too


    Okay fair enough. TOR really has painted themselves into a corner with their big contracts...hard to make the team around the stars better and hard to trade their contracts and get full value with the flat cap.
    remowilliams and athrin liked this.
    May 30 at 6:35
    #13
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,141
    Likes: 237
    Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
    He's been one of the better players on the ice for TOR since the beginning of this series, has barely allowed ANY scoring while on the ice, carried the Leafs' D-core from 2017-2020, is an elite puck mover, do you want me to go on?


    I do...

    Just because he pass the puck to the leagues best goal scorer and sure hes one of the leafs most consistent playoff performers, but that doesnt say much.
    He carries the leaf defence, thats like saying that smashed up 98 Civic is slighty better then the smashed of civics around it.

    There is nothing elite about rielly he barely cracks the top 15 NHL Dmen.....he is not better then Hughes
    remowilliams liked this.
    May 30 at 6:36
    #14
    Aviation go brrrrrrr
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 12,636
    Likes: 6,218
    Quoting: Capsule
    That he's been carrying Leafs' D-core doesn't say much about his status as an elite/great defenseman. He would't be #1 on many teams.


    Uhhhh

    he's be number 1 in:
    ANA, ARI (apart from this season he's better than Chychrun), BUF, CGY, CHI, DET, EDM, LA, MIN, MTL, NJ, NYI, PHI, PIT, SJ, STL, VAN, WIN

    Also what does your point prove? «Brayden Point wouldn't be the best player on quite a few teams (PIT, TOR, EDM, COL) so he's not elite? That's literally your argument
    May 30 at 6:37
    #15
    Aviation go brrrrrrr
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 12,636
    Likes: 6,218
    Quoting: yztnuK
    I do...

    Just because he pass the puck to the leagues best goal scorer and sure hes one of the leafs most consistent playoff performers, but that doesnt say much.
    He carries the leaf defence, thats like saying that smashed up 98 Civic is slighty better then the smashed of civics around it.

    There is nothing elite about rielly he barely cracks the top 15 NHL Dmen.....he is not better then Hughes


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes he is Hughes is LITERALLY in the top 5 of the most overrated d-men in the sport, he's such a terrible defensive d-man, he's not even a number 1 yet
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    May 30 at 6:39
    #16
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,141
    Likes: 237
    Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes he is Hughes is LITERALLY in the top 5 of the most overrated d-men in the sport, he's such a terrible defensive d-man, he's not even a number 1 yet


    i see, i get it now, you are one of those delusional bandwagoner leaf fans.

    5 days ago you were planning your Winnipeg/Toronto parties, today your planning the leaf rebuild.
    May 30 at 6:41
    #17
    Aviation go brrrrrrr
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 12,636
    Likes: 6,218
    Quoting: yztnuK
    i see, i get it now, you are one of those delusional bandwagoner leaf fans.

    5 days ago you were planning your Winnipeg/Toronto parties, today your planning the leaf rebuild.


    I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I'm not even a main TOR fan. My number one team is the NYR. I've been a small «f» Leaf fan since the 16-17 season.

    And this doesn't prevent me from seeing hockey as it is.

    And the fact is that Rielly TORCHES Hughes, like it's not even close.
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    May 30 at 6:43
    #18
    Thread Starter
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 672
    Likes: 89
    Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
    Uhhhh

    he's be number 1 in:
    ANA, ARI (apart from this season he's better than Chychrun), BUF, CGY, CHI, DET, EDM, LA, MIN, MTL, NJ, NYI, PHI, PIT, SJ, STL, VAN, WIN

    Also what does your point prove? «Brayden Point wouldn't be the best player on quite a few teams (PIT, TOR, EDM, COL) so he's not elite? That's literally your argument


    Okay so what kind of argument is it that he's carrying the Leafs' d-core? Yes, it says that he's better than the rest of Leafs' defense, but it doesn't say anything about whether he's elite or not compared to the rest of the league.
    May 30 at 6:47
    #19
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,141
    Likes: 237
    Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
    I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I'm not even a main TOR fan. My number one team is the NYR. I've been a small «f» Leaf fan since the 16-17 season.

    And this doesn't prevent me from seeing hockey as it is.

    And the fact is that Rielly TORCHES Hughes, like it's not even close.


    delusional regardless of the team you cheer for
    May 30 at 6:53
    #20
    Aviation go brrrrrrr
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 12,636
    Likes: 6,218
    Quoting: yztnuK
    delusional regardless of the team you cheer for


    Ok, prove that Hughes is such a good defenseman.

    Rielly has proved since his career started that he gets above average results playing with below average players.

    Hughes, on the other hand, if you removed Tanev, becomes a massive defensive liability and isn't a true number one d-man on his own.

    This is reality. Deal with it.
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    May 30 at 7:19
    #21
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,141
    Likes: 237
    Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
    Ok, prove that Hughes is such a good defenseman.

    Rielly has proved since his career started that he gets above average results playing with below average players.

    Hughes, on the other hand, if you removed Tanev, becomes a massive defensive liability and isn't a true number one d-man on his own.

    This is reality. Deal with it.


    I am dealing with it. I didnt say Hughes was elite, just that he is better then rielly
    May 30 at 8:58
    #22
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 11,245
    Likes: 4,331
    Devils decline.
    If it were just Severson & Zacha for Nylander & Holl, I could at least understand it.
    But the added picks were the poison pill.
    May 30 at 9:18
    #23
    Dawn for GM imo
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 1,048
    Likes: 408
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    if they lose they should get horribly ripped off in trades and make the team worse?


    No but they should rebuild bc this is not a championship caliber team
    remowilliams liked this.
    May 30 at 9:31
    #24
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 8,655
    Likes: 2,995
    Quoting: JokiStan
    No but they should rebuild bc this is not a championship caliber team


    Ah yes, rebuilding, that'll help. Nothing makes a championship team like scrapping a well above average team and starting from god knows what instead of trying to make the team better.
    May 30 at 10:34
    #25
    First NY Then LA
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 20,489
    Likes: 10,659
    Take Justin Holl out of that Nylander trade and it would still be awful if the Islanders lose to Boston; they win so that the pick moves to #28 (or later) and it becomes an absolute howler.

    Replace Zacha with another prime element and the trade is reasonable. MacKenzie Blackwood would be the proper value, but I doubt that the Devils are going to trade away a guy they think may be their number one goalie for several years.
     
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