Heres what could happen if Weber retires

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
17	$81,500,000	$45,237,143	$597,561	$1,475,000	$36,262,857

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Byron, Paul $3,400,000$3,400,000 LW, RW UFA - 2	Suzuki, Nick $863,333$863,333 ($537,500$538K) C UFA - 1	Anderson, Josh $5,500,000$5,500,000 RW, LW M-NTC UFA - 6
	Evans, Jake $750,000$750,000 C UFA - 1	Toffoli, Tyler $2,125,000$2,125,000 RW, LW UFA - 3
		Gallagher, Brendan $6,500,000$6,500,000 RW, LW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 6
		Caufield, Cole $880,833$880,833 ($300,000$300K) LW, RW UFA - 2
		Ylönen, Jesse $880,833$880,833 RW, LW RFA - 2

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Edmundson, Joel $875,000$875,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 3		Price, Carey $10,500,000$10,500,000 G NMC UFA - 5
Chiarot, Ben $1,750,000$1,750,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 1	Petry, Jeff $2,343,750$2,343,750 RD M-NTC, NMC UFA - 4	Allen, Jake $2,875,000$2,875,000 G UFA - 2
Kulak, Brett $925,000$925,000 LD/RD UFA - 1		Primeau, Cayden $880,833$880,833 G RFA - 1
Romanov, Alexander $894,167$894,167 ($637,500$638K) LD RFA - 1
Ouellet, Xavier $737,500$737,500 LD/RD UFA - 1

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
		Drouin, Jonathan $5,500,000$5,500,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 2

Jun. 5, 2021 at 4:27 a.m.

#1

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

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So basically your only hope is to rob Predators blind.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 4:28 a.m.

#2

math731

Thread Starter

Zuke is the goat

Joined: May 2017

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Quoting: justaBoss

So basically your only hope is to rob Predators blind.

Didnt you read the essay I wrote.... Jesus I even specified it in the trade description. Cmon man

Jun. 5, 2021 at 4:35 a.m.

#3

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 32,709

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Quoting: math731

Didnt you read the essay I wrote.... Jesus I even specified it in the trade description. Cmon man

I did. Honestly Flyers f*cked the Preds with that offer sheet. But you can't undone something that is done a long time ago.

Point being, should Weber retire, there's virtually no reason for Habs to demand anything more than a 5th rounder from Preds. Your way of doing things is tantamount to Bergevin proverbially abusing Poile's situation - something that professional GMs wouldn't ever do honestly. Especially when there is absolutely zero to gain.

No GM would ever commit a deal with Habs should they go this kind of route.

Josh4 liked this.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 4:37 a.m.

#4

CheechYou

train, train

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 3,013

Likes: 733

If Weber retires, can SJ send you Burns to replace him? Please?!

Jun. 5, 2021 at 4:41 a.m.

#5

TheThunder

PULL A TAMPA IGNORE

Joined: Mar. 2021

Posts: 2,563

Likes: 690

Edited Jun. 5, 2021 at 4:47 a.m.

Your post is delusional in Montreal winning the Cup bahaha.
6 teams guarantee that doesn't happen... Tampa Bay, Carolina, Colorado, Vegas, Boston and the Islanders all of whom destroy Montreal.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 4:46 a.m.

#6

GMs

Joined: Jul. 2019

Posts: 14,042

Likes: 5,158

Quoting: justaBoss

I did. Honestly Flyers f*cked the Preds with that offer sheet. But you can't undone something that is done a long time ago.

Point being, should Weber retire, there's virtually no reason for Habs to demand anything more than a 5th rounder from Preds. Your way of doing things is tantamount to Bergevin proverbially abusing Poile's situation - something that professional GMs wouldn't ever do honestly. Especially when there is absolutely zero to gain.

No GM would ever commit a deal with Habs should they go this kind of route.

Poile knew the risk when he traded Subban for Weber. He hopes Weber plays until 40 but with the injuries he got, he won’t finish is contract. I don’t think he retires this summer because MTL aren’t winning the cup, but maybe after next year (when we miss the playoffs). And yes, Bergevin should ask for the moon. 6M for 4 years is worth a lot

Jun. 5, 2021 at 4:49 a.m.

#7

math731

Thread Starter

Zuke is the goat

Joined: May 2017

Posts: 4,660

Likes: 1,571

Quoting: GMs

Poile knew the risk when he traded Subban for Weber. He hopes Weber plays until 40 but with the injuries he got, he won’t finish is contract. I don’t think he retires this summer because MTL aren’t winning the cup, but maybe after next year (when we miss the playoffs). And yes, Bergevin should ask for the moon. 6M for 4 years is worth a lot

Exactly, why wouldnt he? Why should he just make such a big gift to NAS? Its Poile’s (and the Flyers) fault, thats it.

Quoting: justaBoss

I did. Honestly Flyers f*cked the Preds with that offer sheet. But you can't undone something that is done a long time ago.

Point being, should Weber retire, there's virtually no reason for Habs to demand anything more than a 5th rounder from Preds. Your way of doing things is tantamount to Bergevin proverbially abusing Poile's situation - something that professional GMs wouldn't ever do honestly. Especially when there is absolutely zero to gain.

No GM would ever commit a deal with Habs should they go this kind of route.

GMs liked this.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 4:52 a.m.

#8

math731

Thread Starter

Zuke is the goat

Joined: May 2017

Posts: 4,660

Likes: 1,571

Quoting: justaBoss

I did. Honestly Flyers f*cked the Preds with that offer sheet. But you can't undone something that is done a long time ago.

Point being, should Weber retire, there's virtually no reason for Habs to demand anything more than a 5th rounder from Preds. Your way of doing things is tantamount to Bergevin proverbially abusing Poile's situation - something that professional GMs wouldn't ever do honestly. Especially when there is absolutely zero to gain.

No GM would ever commit a deal with Habs should they go this kind of route.

And its no different than Francis asking for first round picks to take on one or two year of a bad contract (Neal, Roussel, etc.) No other GM would ever commit to trade with Bergevin if that ever happen... Lol. Hockey is business and MB should jump on the occasion to get some great assets. By the way, a first and a second is virtually nothing compared to having basically a cap of minus 5 millions for 5 years

GMs liked this.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 4:55 a.m.

#9

math731

Thread Starter

Zuke is the goat

Joined: May 2017

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Quoting: TheThunder

Your post is delusional in Montreal winning the Cup bahaha.
6 teams guarantee that doesn't happen... Tampa Bay, Carolina, Colorado, Vegas, Boston and the Islanders all of whom destroy Montreal.

Ok...

ForsbergForVezina liked this.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 5:14 a.m.

#10

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 32,709

Likes: 31,449

Quoting: math731

And its no different than Francis asking for first round picks to take on one or two year of a bad contract (Neal, Roussel, etc.) No other GM would ever commit to trade with Bergevin if that ever happen... Lol. Hockey is business and MB should jump on the occasion to get some great assets. By the way, a first and a second is virtually nothing compared to having basically a cap of minus 5 millions for 5 years

Hard to say. It's not viable comparison on moving bad contracts because that is not a contract move. It's NSH correcting their former mistakes. We have no precedent on cap recapture deals. Still, taking a contract in is a hindrance that will cost something as it helps the other team, but in this case, moving a retired player doesn't do sh*t for the Habs. That is a major difference.

And actually depending on that pick the price could be great. Should the pick be high and NSH could draft highly potential player, that player would very well stay cost controlled throughout the recapture penalty. Something very valuable.

Quoting: GMs

Poile knew the risk when he traded Subban for Weber. He hopes Weber plays until 40 but with the injuries he got, he won’t finish is contract. I don’t think he retires this summer because MTL aren’t winning the cup, but maybe after next year (when we miss the playoffs). And yes, Bergevin should ask for the moon. 6M for 4 years is worth a lot

Actually I don't think he did. Cap recapture penalty was not a thing when they made that trade. It proved itself imminent more after Luongo's retirement. I think if Poile had the knowledge earlier about what kind of problems it could lead to, he never would've traded the guy.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 5:18 a.m.

#11

math731

Thread Starter

Zuke is the goat

Joined: May 2017

Posts: 4,660

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Quoting: justaBoss

Hard to say. It's not viable comparison on moving bad contracts because that is not a contract move. It's NSH correcting their former mistakes. We have no precedent on cap recapture deals. Still, taking a contract in is a hindrance that will cost something as it helps the other team, but in this case, moving a retired player doesn't do sh*t for the Habs. That is a major difference.

And actually depending on that pick the price could be great. Should the pick be high and NSH could draft highly potential player, that player would very well stay cost controlled throughout the recapture penalty. Something very valuable.

Actually I don't think he did. Cap recapture penalty was not a thing when they made that trade. It proved itself imminent more after Luongo's retirement. I think if Poile had the knowledge earlier about what kind of problems it could lead to, he never would've traded the guy.

Then, SEA asking for first round picks to draft guys like Neal or Eriksson for instance isnt fair either based on your logic as SEA needs to reach the cap floor either way. So taking on Neal doesnt hurt them but still, they are asking for a first

Jun. 5, 2021 at 5:20 a.m.

#12

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 32,709

Likes: 31,449

Quoting: math731

Then, SEA asking for first round picks to draft guys like Neal or Eriksson for instance isnt fair either based on your logic as SEA needs to reach the cap floor either way. So taking on Neal doesnt hurt them but still, they are asking for a first

Neal and Eriksson are bad examples because they're still active and have effect on VAN's and EDM's cap. That wouldn't be a thing for MTL if Weber retires. Try Seabrook instead. There's a player they'd be after should they try to hit the cap floor, as he's on IR for good.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 5:36 a.m.

#13

GMs

Joined: Jul. 2019

Posts: 14,042

Likes: 5,158

Quoting: justaBoss

Hard to say. It's not viable comparison on moving bad contracts because that is not a contract move. It's NSH correcting their former mistakes. We have no precedent on cap recapture deals. Still, taking a contract in is a hindrance that will cost something as it helps the other team, but in this case, moving a retired player doesn't do sh*t for the Habs. That is a major difference.

And actually depending on that pick the price could be great. Should the pick be high and NSH could draft highly potential player, that player would very well stay cost controlled throughout the recapture penalty. Something very valuable.

Actually I don't think he did. Cap recapture penalty was not a thing when they made that trade. It proved itself imminent more after Luongo's retirement. I think if Poile had the knowledge earlier about what kind of problems it could lead to, he never would've traded the guy.

Yes Poile knew about the cap recapture penalty, the risk was even bigger before the Luongo things happen. They changed it like Math explained in the description. But Poile was awarded of the risk, that’s a fact, I’m sorry

math731 liked this.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 7:34 a.m.

#14

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 32,709

Likes: 31,449

Quoting: GMs

Yes Poile knew about the cap recapture penalty, the risk was even bigger before the Luongo things happen. They changed it like Math explained in the description. But Poile was awarded of the risk, that’s a fact, I’m sorry

Weber was signed in 2012. The cap recapture penalty was implemented in the 2013 CBA to further prevent such front loaded contracts. When they signed that contract Poile didn't know. When he traded Weber I suppose he knew of the risk, but that contract and it's repercussions were something Poile couldn't have known about.

I think had Luongo retired a bit early and had he seen the consequences VAN had to face, he wouldn't have traded Weber. It was a bad trade when they did it, now it looks even worse.

GMs liked this.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 8:37 a.m.

#15

Campabee

Joined: Nov. 2018

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Quoting: TheThunder

Your post is delusional in Montreal winning the Cup bahaha.
6 teams guarantee that doesn't happen... Tampa Bay, Carolina, Colorado, Vegas, Boston and the Islanders all of whom destroy Montreal.

Yes, your right, also Montreal won't beat Toronto or Winnipeg to advance our of the North Division as stated when the playoffs started, Price sucks and should be traded or unprotected in the ED as stated several times throughout the year, Montreal is not making the playoffs as stated several times throughout the year and Prices contract is a hindrance to Montreal's success as stated several times since he signed the contract. OH WAIT, Montreal IS on the verge of advancing out of the North, Price is still elite and capable of stealing games and series (see Toronto series), MontreL made the playoffs and is has a 2-0 series lead in the North Division finals and Prices contract has yet to be a hindrance to the organization's success in fact having him signed is the reason why Montreal is having success. This is hockey there are no guarantees, just cause a team LOOKS better on paper or vs another team doesn't mean they will play well against Montreal's system and players. It's what makes this sport so much fun to watch. Boston and NY are going 6 or 7 games and who knows who will be injured by the end of the series, Same goes with Tampa/Carolina and Vegas/Colorado. Montreal has the potential to sweep ( unlikely but still potential) none of the other series has that potential. Keep hating on the Habs though it's what your good at.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 8:50 a.m.

#16

Campabee

Joined: Nov. 2018

Posts: 15,433

Likes: 6,388

Edited Jun. 5, 2021 at 9:14 a.m.

Quoting: justaBoss

Neal and Eriksson are bad examples because they're still active and have effect on VAN's and EDM's cap. That wouldn't be a thing for MTL if Weber retires. Try Seabrook instead. There's a player they'd be after should they try to hit the cap floor, as he's on IR for good.

You are wrong trading for Seabrook is not the same. Seabrook is already on LTIR and therefore does not affect the hawks cap situation it actually helps it because the hawks can go above the cap by the value of Seabrook's contract. Weber is still and would still be active at the time of the trade explained above. Nashville would most definitely pay a 1st and 2nd and Montreal should most definitely hold them over a barrel to get the most possible assets back. No other team in the league would do it but Nashville has the incentive to do it.

Montreal has more incentive to keep Weber and LTIR him than to trade him back to Nashville that is the only reason they likely don't make a trade. See if they trade Weber to Nashville and get a 1st and 2nd there is only about a 50% chance that those picks turn into NHL players but being able to go over the cap by 7.8 Mil for the next 4 years gives them the ability to add a very good established player in FA or trade.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 9:10 a.m.

#17

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 32,709

Likes: 31,449

Quoting: Campabee

You are wrong trading for Seabrook is not the same. Seabrook is already on LTIR and therefore does not affect the hawks cap situation it actually helps it because the hawks can go above the cap by the value of Seabrook's contract. Weber is still and would still be active at the time of the trade explained above. Nashville would most definitely pay a 1st and 2nd and Montreal should most definitely hold them over a barrel to get the most possible assets back. No other team in the league would do it but Nashville has the incentive to do it.

If Weber retires/goes LTIR mid contract, how would that differ from Seabrook's situation? NSH has no incentive to bring the guy in until he calls it quits, only after that, after which point he'd strictly be a LTIR asset.

palhal liked this.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 9:20 a.m.

#18

Campabee

Joined: Nov. 2018

Posts: 15,433

Likes: 6,388

Quoting: justaBoss

If Weber retires/goes LTIR mid contract, how would that differ from Seabrook's situation? NSH has no incentive to bring the guy in until he calls it quits, only after that, after which point he'd strictly be a LTIR asset.

Because Seabrook is ALREADY on LTIR and doesn't have a recapture penalty worth 24 Mil looming over the organization, Nashville does! Also as an added bonus (and the reason I believe this makes no sense as stated above in edit) if Nashville reacquires Weber then he goes on LTIR not only do the Preds avoid recapture but also gain the ability to go over the cap by 7.8 Mil. That is a huge incentive!!!

Jun. 5, 2021 at 9:35 a.m.

#19

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 32,709

Likes: 31,449

Quoting: Campabee

Because Seabrook is ALREADY on LTIR and doesn't have a recapture penalty worth 24 Mil looming over the organization, Nashville does! Also as an added bonus (and the reason I believe this makes no sense as stated above in edit) if Nashville reacquires Weber then he goes on LTIR not only do the Preds avoid recapture but also gain the ability to go over the cap by 7.8 Mil. That is a huge incentive!!!

The incentive is only there WHEN Weber is about to retire. Not before that. The longer Weber plays for Habs the better it is for Preds. As long as he's active Preds have no reason to acquire him back.

Frankly, I don't really believe the notion of him retiring any time soon. Maybe the last two years, but he's currently still 35 and an useful asset for Habs at which point the cap recapture won't hurt them nearly as long.

I love the general optimism of Habs fans being absolutely certain that they'll get a lions prey in return for an aging D-man. Bully for you, but as long as he's active, no one cares.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 9:55 a.m.

#20

palhal

LongtimeLeafsufferer

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 59,429

Likes: 22,637

You confuse "retire" and "LTIR". If Weber retires, Nashville can't hide the recapture penalties. If Weber can be LTIRed, Nashville will be delighted, but have no motivation to trade for him.
Nashville or not team has no incentive to trade for Weber for LTIR purposes....even if was by miracle able to go on LTIR for the rest of his contract.

justaBoss liked this.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 10:05 a.m.

#21

Devil

Speak of the Devil

Joined: Nov. 2017

Posts: 23,935

Likes: 26,436

Im still confused about this trade even after reading the description. If Weber plans on retiring or retires, why would a team want him and why would the Preds trade a first for him?

Can someone explain because Im getting confused with everyone's thoughts/explainations?

Jun. 5, 2021 at 10:32 a.m.

#22

AnalyticalGM

AA21

Joined: Jul. 2018

Posts: 346

Likes: 204

A first + second or Tomasino

If Weber retires Montreal gets nothing
At most this will cost a mid to late round pick

gmgb liked this.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 10:58 a.m.

#23

gmgb

Joined: Jun. 2017

Posts: 7,597

Likes: 5,193

Quoting: AnalyticalGM

A first + second or Tomasino

If Weber retires Montreal gets nothing
At most this will cost a mid to late round pick

I'd be willing to throw in a meet and greet with Gnash, and an autographed picture of Willy Daunic.

There's as much misinformation here (annual penalties of $6M, NSH someone having to pay Weber if he goes on LTIR) as the proposal the OP is critiquing. As sad as I'll be to see Weber retire one day, at least it means it'll finally put an end to these bizarre ransom proposals from Habs fans.

AnalyticalGM liked this.

Jun. 5, 2021 at 12:27 p.m.

#24

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 32,709

Likes: 31,449

Quoting: Devil1122

Im still confused about this trade even after reading the description. If Weber plans on retiring or retires, why would a team want him and why would the Preds trade a first for him?

Can someone explain because Im getting confused with everyone's thoughts/explainations?

Apparently since Weber's contract is "too long", should he quit his career before his contract ends, the team who signed that contract much pay some sort of compensation due to various reasons (don't know the exact details). Should he do it this year they'd have to pay a 5 year amount which is around $24M apparently, divided to next 5 years or so.

Few Habs fans seem adamant that he's going to quit in a short time, at which point Preds become desperate enough to bring that guy in whatever cost possible, as they wouldn't have to pay this amount if they could slot him in their own LTIR instead (like CHI did with Seabrook).

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