Doug Wilson blocks your number

Worse than a lowball

Before all the angry Sharks fans arrive, Kuokkanen and Meier put up similar stats. Kuokkanen was playing on the 3rd line for half the year and was in a harder division. Not to mention he's younger, cheaper, and hasn't been regressing every year.

He's still got 60 point pedigree. We're not going to trade him when his value is low anyway

I love Kuokkanen but come on

Him regressing every year is a huge red flag. In my opinion, Sharks fans are overvaluing Meier

There's no way Fitz is going to be this conservative in the offseason. Fitz is going all out. Also, Kuokkanen is a third liner. He's only on the top line right now because we suck big poopoo.

If that is the case then why do YOU want to do this trade?

I never said I wanted the trade

I never got why people would use that as an argument. Clearly you think your getting a good deal or you wouldnt make this trade.

You're severely undervaluing him. Keep Kuokkanen

Kuokkanen is younger, cheaper, and more productive. And doesn't have 8-figure qualifying offer ahead of him.



I don't get this at all.
Kuokkanen should have more value than Meier in a flat cap world.

Pts/60 this season
Kuokkanen 1.83
Meier 1.67

CF%
Kuokkanen 51.6
Meier 50.9

Salary
Kuokkanen $811,666
Meier $6,000,000

Meier is about 2 years older and makes 7x the salary as Kuokkanen, yet Meier was outproduced by Kuokkanen playing on a team that scored less, and in a harder division.

But since Meier had that great season a few years ago...we should value him more?



Maybe Sharks fans are undervaluing Kuokkanen.

1. Fitzy will be conservative this off season - has said it publicly many times.
2. NJD are going to continue to build from within. Not going "all out"
3. Kuokkanen went from 3rd line to 1st line because he earned it, and Gusev didn't.

Or you're severely undervaluing Kuokkanen

Younger, Cheaper Similar Production in harder division and lower role

Points / 60 and CF% can't be translated to individual skill or trade value. There are so many factors and context that need to be taken into account for these numbers to have any meaning. Between the two, Meier is worth more and in general, is the better player. He's one of the best forchekers in the league and has proven he can produce at first/second line rates in previous seasons. Kuokkanen is good, but he can't be the center-piece in a deal for Meier.

Kuokkanen, I’m a huge fan of him.

I believe he was a Carolina prospect before the Devils acquired him correct? Either way I really like him and I’m glad he’s doing well in NJ.

But no actual Sharks fan who watches the Sharks is undervaluing anything. Meier is a legit top line player.

Now that being said; blah blah stats production, I agree with all of that that Meier isn’t progressing. But there are factors like Meier hasn’t had a consistent line in like 2 years, we suck balls and Meier in turn clearly isn’t engaged some nights. Meiers got more responsibilities and pressure to perform and be deployed against top guys yet he mentally falls out of a game and we rarely have a good start so he usually falls off with our team having zero confidence in net. There are nights he looks like 100$ and other nights were he looks like he’d rather be at home. Additionally, Meier is a top line player, whereas Kuokkanen is a fantastic middle/top 6 complementary player.

I do not think Janne is bad. I really really like him. I’d love to see him in Teal. But Meier is like the Dubois/ Laine situation. Basically exactly. Meier is a legit 60-70 power forward who’s got better puck skills than Kane (our Kane) and could easily put perform Kane (who’s a legit threat that the league rarely acknowledges how good he is). Dubois is a talented Center and Laine is a gifted shooter. You ain’t trading either of those 3 for a middling return.

All of them have their issues. Meiers is really;

- lack of engagement
- lack of effort when things go wrong
- could use faster decision making (all 3 could be combined)

So if I were to say,

Kuokkanen is a fantastic middle 6 complementary player who’s got top 6 upside and can do well in different situations.

I would call Meier a top 6 power forward with “elite” potential (nothing like franchise guys, but better than good), he is a rare breed who can be fast and strong with soft hands and a good shot/ grinder style in the corners.

1 of them is successful - Kuokkanen
The other used to be successful - Meier

Meier puts up 31 pts when sucks (sucks maybe a bit of an exaggeration). He didn’t have a good year.

Meier consistently shows he’s a legit threat (did very well at worlds), consistently has nights that he should put up more often. He just doesn’t consistently engage and perform. Which I think is due to the lack of team success and frustration and no real line.

If Meier played with Hughes or Hischier (Swiss boys); you cannot say you’d prefer having Kuokkanen on their wing.

Exactly my thoughts. The sharks should do best to treat Meier like Laine in the case of a deal. You either blow us away with futures or you offer a similar young player straight up.

Thank you for explaining more about Meier but here's my take

Meier has been regressing every year and as you said doesn't show 100% every night. That's not going to cut in NJ. We got guys who show consistent effort every night, even when we're down a lot. Devils came back from down 3-4 goals multiple times this year. Meier mentally falling out of games would not work in New Jersey.

Obviously, the Sharks want to sell high on Meier, but it doesn't make sense for the Devils to buy high on Meier. Devils would have to bet on Meier rebounding back in New Jersey which could happen, but it still is a risky bet (especially if the Sharks want a bigger package than Kuokkanen + 2nd).

Meier could play with Nico or Jack in New Jersey, but the Devils have so many wingers that could easily replace Meier

Wingers that had better seasons than Meier: Zacha, Bratt, Sharangovich
Wingers in the Devils system that have more potential than Meier: Holtz, Mercer, Foote

I do not want to sell Meier unless it’s for ample return I think is most fans opinion. He’s more valuable as an asset than a low sale.

But to counter slightly; Bratt is really the only winger their with upside. To say those other two are flat out better is false hope because Zacha is having a outlier type year. He could continue it but saying Zacha is better because of 1 year doesn’t mean you can than say Meier having a down year means he worse. And at the same time Meiers BAD year is 31 pts. And I’m
Not saying he’s mentally broken or useless. I just pointing out a flaw in the player. It doesn’t mean he has zero effort. But when you watch the Sharks it’s the whole team. They could have 1 goal against 1 minute into the game. Battle back and get 2 and then instantly it gets tied, both being weak goals. Happened numerous times this year. Guys like Kane and Burns play 110% always. Guys like Meier and Karlsson get frustrated. It’s not for lack of effort but frustrating.

I don’t take back my comments on Meier but a better wording would be; lack of engagement in teamplay/ systems; mainly when frustrated. Which isn’t due to his teammates but due to the overall team literally not having confidence and confidence in net. He’s got a lack of effort when things go wrong in the sense than he begins to just do whatever. He’ll back check but he weak on the puck, or weak on the body. Then next shift he’ll be a powerhouse and then next shift there’s a goal against and he goes and try’s to do it all himself with a little bit of a lack of worry and if it fails he’s like ah well we’re already down 3.

Meier isn’t a broken player. It’s more like a team who needs confidence and mainly confidence in net. Karlsson is very much the same (not lack of effort or engagement in the game or team but a nonchalant style when things go wrong). If that makes any sense. Not saying they don’t give a **** but it’s more like “why give a ****, if Jones just let in 3 consecutive weak goals when we played very well”.

I really like Kuokkanen and Bratt but I wouldn’t say anyone you listed is a better player, or even close. Mercer and Holtz have some great potential and they could be better in the future but that’s not nearly a sure thing. Just that if a Meier trade happen it wouldn’t involve a small trade. A trade like the Laine/ Dubois trade or a trade involving a high quality prospect plus picks. Both of which don’t fit NJD needs. I’m more so just defending Meier. I don’t think NJD need to make any trades until we see what they look like after expansion and draft day (or draft day is when we could see a trade). But I’d rather see NJD fill out some quality D than pay for Meier. Which we could see with Hughes so I don’t know that New Jersey needs to do anything that doesn’t guaranteed benefit them. Which a trading for a big name could backfire in terms of overpay so they could sit tight and see what’s available in free agency.

Zacha didn't have an outlier season. He's been improving every year (unlike Meier) and this year he finally broke out with Ruff as his coach. Coach Hynes and Coach Nas put Zacha as the 3C which was a terrible idea. Zacha isn't a defensive center. His lack of Ice time and role made him not develop. When Ruff became the coach, he moved Zacha to a top 6 winger and he broke out. When Nico came back from injury and played with Zacha and Bratt, they were on fire. Then Nico got injured again. That line had some great chemistry. Zacha was on pace for close to 60 points this year in 82 game season. This season Zacha was better than Meier. No doubt. And based on how Meier and Zacha have progressed, the Devils would rather keep Zacha.

Meier would be a terrible fit in NJ if he doesn't show effort the whole game. Earlier in the year, Johnsson made a brutal turnover vs the Capitals when we were down 3-0 which led to a goal. Johnsson got benched and the Devils came back but lost in OT 5-4. If Meier shows a lack of effort in NJ, he's gonna have a tough time. And with the Devils still rebuilding, he's not going to get that team confidence.

All of the players I listed (Bratt, Zacha, Sharangovich) all had better seasons than Meier statically. One guy you didn't talk about was Sharangovich. Im guessing you don't know much about (not alot of people do). 22 year old rookie that is fast, great shot, and great defensively. He had a better year than Meier and has the potential to be much better than Meier. I wouldn't even trade Sharangovich for Meier 1 for 1.

Sharks would want a young player and more for Meier which is understandable. These are the young players I would be willing to include in a Meier trade: Boqvist, or Merkley + Islanders first round pick or Kuokkanen + second. That would be the max I would offer for Meier. I doubt the Sharks accept but that's the max. Devils could also get guys like JVR for a cheaper price than Meier. I do agree with your point that the Devils should trade for a defensemen instead

I liked the comparison you make for Meier to Dubois and Laine. Both lost confidence in their former team and needed a change of scenery. But looking at how that's going for Dubois and Laine, the Devils should stay far away from Meier unless they could get a great deal

Two points in response

1. Salary is a factor. Meier has due $6m, $10m, $10m+. Kuokkanen is RFA and likely to be between $2-3m.
2. Hard for non-Devils fans to see the fast rise that has been Kuokkanen. He was a throw-in on the Vatanen deal with Canes last year. Vats was hurt, so our deadline return was diminished a bit (Kuokkanen and 3rd). This year, he started out of camp as a fill-in since Hischier had broken leg and Bratt had to quarantine. He started on the 4th line with McLeod and Bastian. After COVID break mid-year, he worked his way to 3rd line with Zajac and Sharangovich. Eventually, he rose to 1st line with Hughes and Sharangovich.

Devils, like the Sharks, have played in only 4 months of the last 15. Guys are making bigger jumps than we are used to seeing.

Is Laine the best example though? He had had a bit more production history at time of trade.
And he was packaged with another quality piece for a discontented Center.

So the comp would be like pairing Meier with Balcers for a Sean Monahan type player.

Probably something like that would make sense if the sharks were to trade Timo. When it comes down to it, the Jets needed to trade Laine and the sharks don’t need to trade Timo so it’s a bit different

They really don't play any Devils games out there at all, eh?

Bratt
Kuokkanen (discussed enough here)
Sharangovich - He just scored 33 between KHL and NHL (16g and 17g) and has enormous upside.
Zacha - Zacha the center and Zacha the winger are two very different players. He had 17 pts in 16 gp as a winger. 18 pts in 34 gp as a center.
Boqvist - has been playing 3C, but plays at very high pace , loads of potential
Holtz - Our #7 pick last season, stud young goal-scorer
Mercer - Was CHL defensive forward of the year while putting up 53 pts in 32 gp
Foote - Power forward with scorers touch, likely PP fixture.
Gritsyuk - Tore up Russian juniors as Chinakhov's linemate last season. This year, was a top forward for Russia at world juniors and played for KHL champ.
Clarke - One of the better off the puck movers, NHL shot (Brandt's brother), but has to stay healthy
Thompson - top-five in NCAA in scoring, needs to bulk up

The Devils have tons of upside on the wing

You’re taking what I said too literal or as a slight to the organization. I explained what I meant and my opinion on it. If you read, I said Mercer and Holtz have potential to be much better for example.

I already stated that I wasn’t trying to knock Kuokkanen or anyone. I was mainly discussing/ defending Meier and the Sharks POV.