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Forums/Armchair-GM

If Matthews and marner were paid reasonably

Created by: mauston_atthews
Team: 2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 11, 2021
Published: Jun. 11, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
They would’ve saved $5M based on what I would’ve given them LOL thanks Dubas
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
5$4,500,000
1$1,250,000
3$3,750,000
1$1,250,000
1$1,750,000
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Matthews, Auston
8$9,000,000
Marner, Mitchell
8$8,000,000
Trades
1.
2.
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
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2022
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2023
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$81,500,000$75,611,533$0$400,000$5,888,467
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 7
Matthews, Auston
$9,000,000$9,000,000
Marner, Mitchell
$8,000,000$8,000,000
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$796,667$796,667
LW, RW
RFA - 3
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$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 4
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$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 3
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$1,645,000$1,645,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 2
$3,750,000$3,750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 6
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$1,250,000$1,250,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$725,000$725,000
C
UFA - 1
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$1,250,000$1,250,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 3
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$1,650,000$1,650,000
G
UFA - 1
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$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$894,167$894,167
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,250,000$1,250,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,750,000$1,750,000
G
UFA - 1

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Jun. 11, 2021 at 8:20 p.m.
#26
Watches no games
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Joined: Jul. 2017
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Quoting: Radu47
A+ input ✔

Even bad epistemology lol yeah

Makes me wonder what alternatives were available to Toronto when Marner was a pending RFA and what alternatives could be (Bjorkstrand + Werenski) ?

Bjorkstrand at the time just an up and comer

But absolutely superb underlying numbers


You are, of course, correct in your analysis. I guess regarding epistemology, people are afraid of the nitty-gritty, around the boards type of work of reality. I guess to further that - when arguing player value on here, and a typical premise is "player x is good", maybe it's literally a disagreement on how to obtain knowledge. Going to start asking posters for more than the answer on their homework.

I have to think Bjorkstrand has been driving play since before... well, he could drive a car I guess? I don't know if you remember him and Ehlers making Denmark relevant at the juniors, but that's one of the most exciting small-team memories I have from that tournament.

I'm always glad to increase the sample size on the ol' no-games-watcher vegan-commie-hipster combination
Jun. 11, 2021 at 8:35 p.m.
#27
Thread Starter
Leafs suck
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Quoting: SociallyHawkward
From an outsiders perspective dubas messed up by signing matthews before marner. He should've took care of both contracts at the same time. The second marner saw what Matthews got he was dead set on that number. Also tavares was such an unnecessary signing. They had a perfectly fine 2C in kadri (yeah yeah suspensions). They needed defense and instead they tried to be the penguins instead of building a complete team.


Well how was he supposed to know marner would want what Matthews got or would be greedy?
Jun. 11, 2021 at 8:39 p.m.
#28
C,mon Leafs...Please
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Posts: 836
Likes: 329
Quoting: aadoyle
not even close. Eichel had less points yet got 10mill. How the **** do you say Matthews deserved 9 mill when he had more points than Eichel and is one of the best goal scorers in the NHL. Flawed logic right there

Year 1 Matthews had 40 goals in 82 games for a total of 69 points
Year 2 Matthews had 34 goals in 62 games for a total of 63 points
Year 3 Matthews had 37 goals in 68 games for a total of 73 points

Year 1 Eichel had 24 goals in 81 games for a total of 56 points
Year 2 Eichel had 24 goals in 61 games for a total of 57 points
Year 3 Eichel had 25 goals in 67 games for a total of 64 points

and you want to give him less facepalm moment right there


Here is where I facepalm....

If we are talking personal budgets and you can afford $50,000 for your car then why in heaven's name do you look at 2 neighbors who have decided to outrageously pay high amounts for comparable cars when they have been heavily criticized for how poorly they run their budgets compared to other neighbors who have been successful with balancing their fixed budgets? If a middle class family can spend $50,000 for a particular car to still have the ability to buy an appropriate house, kid's education, etc if they decide to pay $75,000 for that same car something else has to give.

The NHL has a hard cap. There is literally templates that shows what the Stanley Cup winning teams over the last 20 years have been built like:

https://theathletic.com/2077279/2020/09/21/cup-checklist-analyzing-the-rosters-from-the-last-decade-of-champions/
https://www.si.com/hockey/news/eight-simple-rules-for-building-a-stanley-cup-contender
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1624542-anatomy-of-a-stanley-cup-champion

None...NONE.... have had a player making $10 MIL or more...let alone 3! In fact until this season a team with a player making $10 mil or more hasn't even won a 1st round.

So I hear Eichel and McDavid here being listed as comparables for how you want the Leafs to run the team. Both franchises have been heavily criticized with how poorly they run their contracts. Do you think Buffalo and Edmonton are going to win the Cup this year after allotting all that money to those to players? How about the Final Four? Obviously Edmonton got swept 4 straight and Buffalo didn't even make the playoffs.

I realize that you aren't the only one taking this position that Eichel and McDavid's contract should be used to figure out how much to pay Matthews but when you put down the OP with quoting contracts from 2 of the worst run franchises in the last while after 3 different website's have clearly shown how you build a contender I need to chime in.
Jun. 11, 2021 at 8:41 p.m.
#29
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Quoting: mauston_atthews
Well how was he supposed to know marner would want what Matthews got or would be greedy?


Feel like that's just common sense negotiating.
Jun. 11, 2021 at 8:55 p.m.
#30
C,mon Leafs...Please
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Quoting: mauston_atthews
At the time he deserved nine, now he’s definitely worth 11.6. But marner was and still is worth 8 since he plays with the best goal scorer in the league and most of his points are assists. Not taking anything away from him at all he’s a player anyone would love on their team, just not worth 11.


You really shouldn't back down. If you are looking at the anatomy of a Stanley Cup Champion you don't compare your contracts to teams who are poorly run. How have the championship teams been built? How much can you give 1 player in a sport that needs to balance a complete team PLUS add solid depth players to win 4 rounds of Best of 7 game series against some of the best hockey teams in the world?

If no team in NHL history has won the Stanley Cup with 1 player making $10 or more then we have to give our heads a shake when our team has 3.

Do you know the last time a team with a player making $10 mil or more won a playoff round before MTL this season??
athrin liked this.
Jun. 11, 2021 at 9:18 p.m.
#31
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Joined: May 2017
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Likes: 1,370
Stupid GMs, and stupid players is why the leafs and oilers will not win a cup in the Mathews and McDavid eras unless the cap skyrockets above 100m in the next 2-3 years, Crosby and Malkin both could have easily gotten the league max at the time but both took less to be able to sign a supporting cast that could help them win cups, and they have won 3 of them, Toews and Kane got paid AFTER they won several cups....
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Jun. 11, 2021 at 9:44 p.m.
#32
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: moli92
They are worth more than that. Imo both of them got around 1.5M AAV more than they should have. Matthews around 10-10.5 and Marner around 9.5 wouldve been fine


like If Matthews signed 11 x 8yrs and Marner signed 9.3 x 6yrs nobody would be complaining lul

Dubas had to act fast with Matthews considering Arizona and Vancouver were getting offer sheets upwards of 13 mill ready. Only complaint I have is term but lets be real not many good teams will be able to afford matthews next contract anyways.

Marner had 2 offersheets from NYI and Columbus averaging 12-13 mill. Yes his contract is high but if hes averaging 100 points a season and starts performing again in the playoffs the complaining should die down
 
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