Isles

Isles7

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 12,222

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Quoting: si5137

Toffoli is a way closer comparable than Gallagher.

You make a good argument about committing long term cap space - even at 4 years for Palmieri - I don't think Beau signs long term - it benefits him to take a bridge. The same goes for Sorokin - Blackwood bridge deal is a good comparison as to a Demko-type contract.

Pelech will get his long term deal

I remember last summer the same thing was said about toews - he won't take a 2 year deal, meanwhile he signed a bargain 4 year deal with Colorado and he was a Norris caliber defenseman this season. At least we have two 3rd rd picks to show for it...Theres always a price and when you have the opportunity to lock up young players who are improving, you pay that price.

Jun. 12, 2021 at 6:10 p.m.

#27

Thread Starter

Joined: May 2019

Posts: 130

Likes: 14

Edited Jun. 12, 2021 at 6:23 p.m.

WHOA - slow your roll with Norris candidate - nice player and always liked Toews, but let's not go crazy - he isn't even the 2nd best D man on that team.
And they received TWO 2nd rounders for Toews, not 3rd round picks.

I agree that you want to lock up your younger players, but the flat cap landscape has generated more interest in bridge deals (and shorter deals) - Point, Tkachuk, Barzal, Laine, and this summer Pettersson, Makar, and Hughes will all take bridge deals. Beauvillier and the Isles is not an isolated situation.

There is more to the Toews situation too- Devon filing for arbitration made the situation more difficult and at that point, the priority was resigning Barzal and Pulock.

Jun. 12, 2021 at 6:27 p.m.

#28

Thread Starter

Joined: May 2019

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Likes: 14

There is also difficulty in gauging longer-term deals for players like Beauvillier and Sorokin.

Have we seen enough of Sorokin to give him a Demko size contract? Or does he get something around what Elvis got? or Blackwood?
What is Beau's AAV in a longer-term deal? 4 and change, like Arvidsson? 5m? 6m? higher than that?

Jun. 12, 2021 at 6:31 p.m.

#29

IconicHawk

Bedard23

Joined: May 2021

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Your d is too old

Jun. 12, 2021 at 6:49 p.m.

#30

Thread Starter

Joined: May 2019

Posts: 130

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Fair.

Greene and Chara definitely make the blueline look older, but Mayfield is 28, Pulock and Pelech both 26, and Dobson 21.

Jun. 12, 2021 at 6:49 p.m.

#31

Thread Starter

Joined: May 2019

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Isles777 -
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/edit/2468098

For you.

Jun. 13, 2021 at 2:46 a.m.

#32

islanders15

Joined: Mar. 2020

Posts: 355

Likes: 105

Quoting: Rokk

Brad Marchand is a character guy are you seriously trying to tell me one of the dirtiest players in the league isn't? Just because he plays 1st line hockey doesn't mean he isn't a character guy. I think you're in denial because he proves your point false, but hey you keep going on about players who's careers failed like skill players don't go through the same thing.

Quoting: Isles777

Brad Marchand is a superstar, he's part of the 1% that are able to be successful up until their mid 30s - you took my comment as a shot at players with character - so let me simplify this for you. Goal scorers who profile like palmieri almost always fall off a cliff in their early 30's. Palmieri is a skill player by the way, just like lucic , Neal and ladd once were. Now their GMs can't wait to get rid of them. You clearly don't understand aging curves, I can go through cap friendly and get a list of 30+ players that profile like palmieri over the last 5-7 years that have fallen off a cliff by the time theyre 31-32 years old. It's the type of game they play. Lee's time is coming as well unfortunately.

Quoting: Isles777

Brad Marchand is a superstar, he's part of the 1% that are able to be successful up until their mid 30s - you took my comment as a shot at players with character - so let me simplify this for you. Goal scorers who profile like palmieri almost always fall off a cliff in their early 30's. Palmieri is a skill player by the way, just like lucic , Neal and ladd once were. Now their GMs can't wait to get rid of them. You clearly don't understand aging curves, I can go through cap friendly and get a list of 30+ players that profile like palmieri over the last 5-7 years that have fallen off a cliff by the time theyre 31-32 years old. It's the type of game they play. Lee's time is coming as well unfortunately.

If you're labeling Brad Marchand as a character guy instead of a superstar that's hysterical. from 2016/17 - 2019/2020 season he was top 11 or better in the Hart race every year. Yea he's one of their leaders and yea hes a character guy but thats not what makes him Brad Marchand. Patrice Bergeron is a character guy, so is Crosby. But theyre world class hockey players and using Brad Marchand to validate paying Kyle Palmieri would be the quickest way to lose your job. If you give Palmieri a long term deal it's likely gonna be in the ballpark of Marchand's 6.1 number, and i dont think Palmieri's character is gonna be enough to make them look like equals.

Lee, Clutter, Martin, Pageau, Bailey. If theyre back (Greene, Cizikas) this team doesn't need another character guy making 6 million a year.

Isles777 liked this.

Jun. 13, 2021 at 6:57 a.m.

#33

You owe us picks

Joined: Jun. 2020

Posts: 447

Likes: 163

Edited Jun. 13, 2021 at 7:21 a.m.

Quoting: islanders15

If you're labeling Brad Marchand as a character guy instead of a superstar that's hysterical. from 2016/17 - 2019/2020 season he was top 11 or better in the Hart race every year. Yea he's one of their leaders and yea hes a character guy but thats not what makes him Brad Marchand. Patrice Bergeron is a character guy, so is Crosby. But theyre world class hockey players and using Brad Marchand to validate paying Kyle Palmieri would be the quickest way to lose your job. If you give Palmieri a long term deal it's likely gonna be in the ballpark of Marchand's 6.1 number, and i dont think Palmieri's character is gonna be enough to make them look like equals.

Lee, Clutter, Martin, Pageau, Bailey. If theyre back (Greene, Cizikas) this team doesn't need another character guy making 6 million a year.

I think you misread the original post. He was saying that because of Palmeiri's style of play his career was almost up. I then stated that Marchand plays the same type of style and he seems to be doing just fine at 33. A character guy to me is a guy is a guy that brings it every single night not just with skill but with grit and heart by playing hard every game. Just because he's a super star doesn't mean he's any less a character guy. Players are allowed to be both. Palmeiri may not be a superstar in this league, but he brings it every night and plays hard. I just find it hypocritical to say his career will end early because he's not Marchand.

Jun. 13, 2021 at 10:56 a.m.

#34

Isles7

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 12,222

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Quoting: Rokk

I think you misread the original post. He was saying that because of Palmeiri's style of play his career was almost up. I then stated that Marchand plays the same type of style and he seems to be doing just fine at 33. A character guy to me is a guy is a guy that brings it every single night not just with skill but with grit and heart by playing hard every game. Just because he's a super star doesn't mean he's any less a character guy. Players are allowed to be both. Palmeiri may not be a superstar in this league, but he brings it every night and plays hard. I just find it hypocritical to say his career will end early because he's not Marchand.

Marchand's style of play isn't close to Palmeri's - Marchand plays a finesse game and is elite across the board - he's one of the best passers in the league as well as one of the best snipers. He uses his high Iq and anticipatory instincts to make the players around him better. You keep bringing up character but it's not about that. Superstars take longer to decline, there's a reason why guys like Patrick Kane , Kopitar, Crosby, Ovechkin, Marchand are able to produce at a high level into their mid 30's - Palmieri will be a bottom 6 caliber player in the next few years because 99% of the time that's what happens to players like him.

Jun. 13, 2021 at 11:22 a.m.

#35

islanders15

Joined: Mar. 2020

Posts: 355

Likes: 105

Quoting: Rokk

I think you misread the original post. He was saying that because of Palmeiri's style of play his career was almost up. I then stated that Marchand plays the same type of style and he seems to be doing just fine at 33. A character guy to me is a guy is a guy that brings it every single night not just with skill but with grit and heart by playing hard every game. Just because he's a super star doesn't mean he's any less a character guy. Players are allowed to be both. Palmeiri may not be a superstar in this league, but he brings it every night and plays hard. I just find it hypocritical to say his career will end early because he's not Marchand.

There are exceptions to the rule in every sport, Brady still great, Lebron still great. Giving Palmieri a long term deal would be a massive mistake, I think you can get away with 4 million for 3, which @isles777 disagrees with. He'd be an idiot to sign that deal anyway. But 5-6 years, 5-6 million per, you're looking at a player that's unmovable and unplayable for the last 2-3 years of that deal. I'm extremely skeptical of what Lee will be in 2-3 years, especially after the knee injury.

Rokk liked this.

Jun. 13, 2021 at 11:28 a.m.

#36

You owe us picks

Joined: Jun. 2020

Posts: 447

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Quoting: Isles777

Marchand's style of play isn't close to Palmeri's - Marchand plays a finesse game and is elite across the board - he's one of the best passers in the league as well as one of the best snipers. He uses his high Iq and anticipatory instincts to make the players around him better. You keep bringing up character but it's not about that. Superstars take longer to decline, there's a reason why guys like Patrick Kane , Kopitar, Crosby, Ovechkin, Marchand are able to produce at a high level into their mid 30's - Palmieri will be a bottom 6 caliber player in the next few years because 99% of the time that's what happens to players like him.

Does Marchand like to drive to net and sacrifice his body to score a goal...yes he does...so does Palmeiri
Does Marchand like to throw his weight around and get physical every once in awhile..yes he does...so does Palmeiri
Is Marchand a pretty good defensive player...yes he is...so is Palmeiri

They play a vary similar style of game just because you don't see it means very little to me at all. I love how you can predict the future of some one when you have no clue what's going to happen in the next 3 or 4 years...none. I'm willing to bet you were one of those guys standing out on the street corner with a sign that said the worlds going to end on 21/12. I'll let you in on a secret the Mayans were wrong. Seriously dude stay away from Vegas and don't play the lottery.

Jun. 13, 2021 at 11:30 a.m.

#37

You owe us picks

Joined: Jun. 2020

Posts: 447

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Quoting: islanders15

There are exceptions to the rule in every sport, Brady still great, Lebron still great. Giving Palmieri a long term deal would be a massive mistake, I think you can get away with 4 million for 3, which @isles777 disagrees with. He'd be an idiot to sign that deal anyway. But 5-6 years, 5-6 million per, you're looking at a player that's unmovable and unplayable for the last 2-3 years of that deal. I'm extremely skeptical of what Lee will be in 2-3 years, especially after the knee injury.

I agree with that, I never said he should get a long term deal. I said I disagreed that his career is ending next year because he turns 31 which is what isles said.

Jun. 13, 2021 at 11:41 a.m.

#38

Isles7

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 12,222

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Quoting: Rokk

Does Marchand like to drive to net and sacrifice his body to score a goal...yes he does...so does Palmeiri
Does Marchand like to throw his weight around and get physical every once in awhile..yes he does...so does Palmeiri
Is Marchand a pretty good defensive player...yes he is...so is Palmeiri

They play a vary similar style of game just because you don't see it means very little to me at all. I love how you can predict the future of some one when you have no clue what's going to happen in the next 3 or 4 years...none. I'm willing to bet you were one of those guys standing out on the street corner with a sign that said the worlds going to end on 21/12. I'll let you in on a secret the Mayans were wrong. Seriously dude stay away from Vegas and don't play the lottery.

just because Marchand likes to mix it up and play physical does not mean he has a similar skillset/style of play. Palmieri is a goal scorer with average skating and below average passing ability. Marchand has elite 4 way mobility and has no weaknesses in his game - every part of his game is elite. It's pretty funny that you still can't grasp that superstars take longer to decline because they do so many things well at a high level.

This year Palmieri was on pace for 33 pts over an 82 game season - the guy is already on the decline, it's actually pretty easy to predict Palmieri's future

- Andrew Ladd 2.0

Jun. 13, 2021 at 11:43 a.m.

#39

Isles7

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 12,222

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Quoting: Rokk

I agree with that, I never said he should get a long term deal. I said I disagreed that his career is ending next year because he turns 31 which is what isles said.

I never said his career is ending - I'm arguing he will have the same impact as guys like Neal , Lucic, Okposo etc... Lucic is still an effective player, but he's a 3rd liner.

Jun. 13, 2021 at 11:55 a.m.

#40

You owe us picks

Joined: Jun. 2020

Posts: 447

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Quoting: Isles777

just because Marchand likes to mix it up and play physical does not mean he has a similar skillset/style of play. Palmieri is a goal scorer with average skating and below average passing ability. Marchand has elite 4 way mobility and has no weaknesses in his game - every part of his game is elite. It's pretty funny that you still can't grasp that superstars take longer to decline because they do so many things well at a high level.

This year Palmieri was on pace for 33 pts over an 82 game season - the guy is already on the decline, it's actually pretty easy to predict Palmieri's future

- Andrew Ladd 2.0

I had this huge reply ready for you, but you know what it's just not worth it anymore. Banging my head against the wall for 20 minutes straight would be more fun. Enjoy the game.

Jun. 13, 2021 at 11:57 a.m.

#41