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Countersenko

Created by: Eli
Team: 2021-22 Washington Capitals
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 13, 2021
Published: Jun. 13, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$2,500,000
2$1,500,000
4$2,500,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
4$10,000,000
Trades
1.
WSH
  1. Blackwell, Colin
  2. Jones, Zachary
Additional Details:
From a Rangers fan post here, but by all means fight me on the value: https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/2468442
2.
WSH
SEA
  1. Schultz, Justin
  2. 2022 7th round pick (WSH)
3.
WSH
  1. Timmins, Conor [RFA Rights]
  2. 2023 4th round pick (COL)
Additional Details:
Timmins is a bit younger than Vanecek and doing okay in the NHL. He's still expansion exempt, so he's a better fit for WSH right now.

I'm open to suggestions on how to balance this trade and how much to pay Timmins as an RFA.
COL
  1. Vanecek, Vitek
  2. 2021 6th round pick (WSH)
Additional Details:
This guy was top ten in wins. Colorado has an expansion slot open for him because SLE isn't giving Grubauer eight years (or if they are, they can have him).
4.
WSH
  1. Barbashev, Ivan [RFA Rights]
  2. Tarasenko, Vladimir
  3. 2021 1st round pick (STL)
Additional Details:
Two years or less of an injured wing who, when healthy, is just as good as Kuznetsov, but had about half as many points this past year. So he's probably playing through an injury. So he might reinjure it and not play at all for the next two years, worst case.

A 25 year old bottom six forward who can kind of play center and, in a pinch, could play 3C behind Eller if McMichael isn't ready to play 2C? Agree? Disagree? And how much should WSH pay him?
STL
  1. Kuznetsov, Evgeny
  2. 2021 3rd round pick (ARI)
Additional Details:
Four years of a solid top six center who's been great in the playoffs, but did drugs three years ago and failed an amateur hockey drug test in Europe in the offseason.

A Blues fan posted this twice as a one for one, and if Tarasenko were producing like Kuznetsov and WSH had too many centers, that would be a reasonable hockey trade.

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/463100
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
Logo of the STL
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
2022
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
2023
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the COL
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the WSH
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$69,672,927$472,927$132,500$11,827,073
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$10,000,000$10,000,000
LW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$9,200,000$9,200,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$3,750,000$3,750,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$2,850,000$2,850,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$863,333$863,333
LW, C
RFA - 3
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$5,166,667$5,166,667
RW
M-NTC
UFA - 3
$2,500,000$2,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$5,750,000$5,750,000
RW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$2,750,000$2,750,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$2,415,000$2,415,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$750,000$750,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$725,000$725,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$791,667$791,667 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
LD/RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$8,000,000$8,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$2,500,000$2,500,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$1,275,000$1,275,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$1,100,000$1,100,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
RFA - 2
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$950,000$950,000
RD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Washington Capitals
$2,500,000$2,500,000
LD
UFA - 1

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Jun. 13, 2021 at 1:40 p.m.
#1
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That Rangers fan also traded Chytil and Georgiev for a 2nd and a 3rd.
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 1:42 p.m.
#2
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avs pass. timmins is too much to give up imo.
Jun. 13, 2021 at 1:46 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: BroadwayBlueshirts
That Rangers fan also traded Chytil and Georgiev for a 2nd and a 3rd.


They did. And that was awful. But I keep seeing Caps fans giving Dillon away for nothing, after he had a really, really good year. I don't think any LHD this past year had both more hits and more points. He's absolutely what the Caps need more of, but where else do they find cap space? So I thought this was a neat conversation starter. You could probably drop Jones from it and keep WSH on the phone, though.
Jun. 13, 2021 at 1:50 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
avs pass. timmins is too much to give up imo.


Thanks for weighing in. I agree Timmins has high expectations, and wIns are often a team stat, but for a rookie to even get by as a starting goalie is impressive.

While you haven't been one of the Leafs fans heavily in on Vanecek, there are Leafs fans repeatedly bidding Liljegren and a 2nd, so I modeled this after that. Since Timmins has proven more in the NHL than Liljegren, I figured he doesn't need as much of a sweetener. There are also Leafs fans who repeatedly insist that Vanecek is worthless, so I'm open to all opinions. Just enjoying the discussion.

Would be curious what Colorado fans think. Especially the one who suggested Timmins for Vanecek. smile
Jun. 13, 2021 at 1:58 p.m.
#5
mokumboi
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Granite hard pass from the Blues, who 1) don't need centers, 2) aren't adding cap commitment for a luxury item & 3) don't want any part of Kuzy. And this part ("So he's probably playing through an injury.") is just incorrect. The guy needs time, and more directly a real preseason, to get his legs, timing and such back.
Jun. 13, 2021 at 1:59 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: mokumboi
Granite hard pass from the Blues, who 1) don't need centers, 2) aren't adding cap commitment for a luxury item & 3) don't want any part of Kuzy. And this part ("So he's probably playing through an injury.") is just incorrect. The guy needs time, and more directly a real preseason, to get his legs, timing and such back.


That was Kuznetsov's excuse for only getting four points in the first half. Then, after he had time, he torched the league. Thanks. Your loss.
Jun. 13, 2021 at 2:01 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Eli
Thanks for weighing in. I agree Timmins has high expectations, and wIns are often a team stat, but for a rookie to even get by as a starting goalie is impressive.

While you haven't been one of the Leafs fans heavily in on Vanecek, there are Leafs fans repeatedly bidding Liljegren and a 2nd, so I modeled this after that. Since Timmins has proven more in the NHL than Liljegren, I figured he doesn't need as much of a sweetener. There are also Leafs fans who repeatedly insist that Vanecek is worthless, so I'm open to all opinions. Just enjoying the discussion.

Would be curious what Colorado fans think. Especially the one who suggested Timmins for Vanecek. smile


vanecek just hasnt proven enough in the nhl yet to get that type of return. i'd be surprised if he got more than a 3rd or 4th if he's moved this offseason.
Jun. 13, 2021 at 2:02 p.m.
#8
mokumboi
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Quoting: Eli
That was Kuznetsov's excuse for only getting four points in the first half. Then, after he had time, he torched the league. Thanks. Your loss.



Okay, well by the logic of your anecdote, Tarasenko will soon torch all, and it will be at a position the Blues actually need a torcher, and it will be a torcher with a deep connection to the city and team, and a torcher not known to flake (pun intended) on heavy drugs. So... you're welcome?
Jun. 13, 2021 at 2:15 p.m.
#9
Bedard23
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Really? Copley is all you got for backup with Samsonov who struggled this pass season your not gonna win many games with that tandem
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 2:28 p.m.
#10
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As a Ranger fan I would say no, partly because of Dillon's contract being a little rich, partly because I love Jones, probably more than most people do. But the value isn't terrible, Dillon is good and shouldn't be just tossed aside like you say some fans want to do.
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 2:31 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: IconicHawk
Really? Copley is all you got for backup with Samsonov who struggled this pass season your not gonna win many games with that tandem


Great question. The one year Copley played as Holtby's backup, Copley got 16 wins. That tied him with Quick for 34th in wins that year, while Quick was starting for the rebuilding Kings. So Copley is a capable backup. The reason he has no trade value and clears waivers is that at 28 nobody expects him to keep improving, and most teams want to play two goalies who have elite starter potential. Since the Caps are old and in win-now mode and tight under the cap, they should be fine with Copley again at backup, unless Fucale seriously outplays him in camp. Should they also try to re-sign Lundqvist or Anderson, or even Andersen if they can get a veteran starter at the $1M cap hits a couple of those guys showed up for last year? Of course. But you can't count on that kind of generosity from guys with nothing to prove. It's just great when it happens.

Since they only have one protection slot and they went with a young 1a-1b rotation last year, they should trade whichever of their goalies brings back the best return, and start the other one.
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 2:46 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: WalterT
As a Ranger fan I would say no, partly because of Dillon's contract being a little rich, partly because I love Jones, probably more than most people do. But the value isn't terrible, Dillon is good and shouldn't be just tossed aside like you say some fans want to do.


Thanks. As a Caps fan, LHD and C are the only spots where WSH has three or four prospects who might be NHL ready. At RHD, for instance, they have nobody under 27 years old under contract. In goal, they have nobody under 25 signed. At LW they have a half-decent undrafted free agent who I think is just 24. So basically LD, C, and RW are the only spots where they have prospects, and if they can get someone even close to Jones' skill level at some other spot, that could be even better for them.
Jun. 13, 2021 at 3:08 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
vanecek just hasnt proven enough in the nhl yet to get that type of return. i'd be surprised if he got more than a 3rd or 4th if he's moved this offseason.


Maybe not. Comment number eight, though: https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/462856?post_id=2414096

And he did finish top ten in wins and minutes among NHL goalies for the season, as a rookie. And slightly above average in spct and GAA. So, you know.... maybe? As a Caps fan, I can hope.
Jun. 13, 2021 at 3:19 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Eli
Maybe not. Comment number eight, though: https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/462856?post_id=2414096

And he did finish top ten in wins and minutes among NHL goalies for the season, as a rookie. And slightly above average in spct and GAA. So, you know.... maybe? As a Caps fan, I can hope.


yea that's a bad trade for the avs. historically unestablished goalie prospects get mid round picks.
Jun. 13, 2021 at 3:46 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
yea that's a bad trade for the avs. historically unestablished goalie prospects get mid round picks.


Nah. When you trade a good young goalie too early, what you get back is pain and heartbreak.

Rask for Raycroft (ouch).
Luongo and Bertuzzi for the pick to draft a worse goalie and overpay him (ouch).
Carey, Allison, and Carter for Oates, Ranford, and Tocchet (good in hindsight but only because all three of the younger guys' careers were cut short by injuries--Tocchet went back to the Caps' then arch-rival Flyers as a free agent, Ranford immediately lost the starting job, and Oates, after leading the Caps to get swept in their first FInals, reportedly had a personality conflict with Jagr that partially triggered a rebuild. Ouch).
Varlamov for a 1st--Caps landed the top-ranked European skater in the draft, Filip Forsberg, and then traded him for Martin Erat, ending their GM's tenure. Ouch!!!!
Grubauer for like $5M of cap space. Ouch.

Goalie you get for a third:

Rittich.

But what the Caps will get if they keep Vanecek and Samsonov is a second straight time of giving up one of the top five players in an expansion draft.

Do I think Liljegren and a 2nd is an equal offer to TImmins and a 4th. Yep. Do I have any way to know whether actual GMs are behind either? Nope. I think either one gets it done if a team steps up with it, but I have no idea about that either. Good luck!
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 4:16 p.m.
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We started talking about this in another thread. First I think you have Timmins contract amount in the right ball park. For the trade, it all depends on what they do with Grubauer in FA. If he signs it’s a no. Timmins imo is a valuable trade piece who is going to be a solid 2nd pairing dman in the league for years to come. However I don’t think he ever gets to be that in COL. Nexts years top 4 of Makar, Toews, Girard, and Byram should be the top 4 for the duration of Toews contract. Then you have Barron and Helleson who have more physical skills in the pipeline. I’ll be honest I didn’t get Vanacek play a lot so I don’t know how comfortable I would be, but one thing is for sure WSH knows how to draft and develop goalies.

Addendum: I am far more in favor of something like this than trying to fill the hole in free agency.
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 4:26 p.m.
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Quoting: Xqb15a
We started talking about this in another thread. First I think you have Timmins contract amount in the right ball park. For the trade, it all depends on what they do with Grubauer in FA. If he signs it’s a no. Timmins imo is a valuable trade piece who is going to be a solid 2nd pairing dman in the league for years to come. However I don’t think he ever gets to be that in COL. Nexts years top 4 of Makar, Toews, Girard, and Byram should be the top 4 for the duration of Toews contract. Then you have Barron and Helleson who have more physical skills in the pipeline. I’ll be honest I didn’t get Vanacek play a lot so I don’t know how comfortable I would be, but one thing is for sure WSH knows how to draft and develop goalies.


From what I saw this year, Vanecek looked dependable. Oshie gave him the nickname "Secret Service," saying you don't see him move much but he's there to protect you.

I could see TImmins ending up top pair, and I could see Vanecek ending up as a starter if he keeps progressing. He's got the confidence and he just keeps showing up and working hard.

I think Samsonov is a more skilled goalie as you can see when he gets going, but he's dealt with more injuries. I could see WSH being open to dealing either one for whatever the right return is.

The wrinkle in your comment that it depends on Grubauer is that WSH only considers trading one of their young 1a/1b tandem before expansion, which is before free agency. Since Grubauer is a UFA now, it seems somewhat unlikely that Seattle picks him, but he's pretty good, so maybe Colorado wants to protect him and then take their chances on signing him. But at that point, Vanecek and his low cap hit are unavailable.
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Oct. 26, 2021 at 9:12 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: mokumboi
Okay, well by the logic of your anecdote, Tarasenko will soon torch all, and it will be at a position the Blues actually need a torcher, and it will be a torcher with a deep connection to the city and team, and a torcher not known to flake (pun intended) on heavy drugs. So... you're welcome?


I don't get the reference, but it's it amazing how well those three players are doing this year?

Kuznetsov's tied with Stamkos for 8th in points.

Tarasenko's 32nd. Barbashev's tied with Copp and Heinen for 56th.

So, yeah. Trade still looks fair, but now it puts WSH over the cap, when Backstrom gets back.

Throw in something for Schultz and it could still work.
Oct. 27, 2021 at 3:53 a.m.
#19
mokumboi
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Quoting: Eli
I don't get the reference, but it's it amazing how well those three players are doing this year?

Kuznetsov's tied with Stamkos for 8th in points.

Tarasenko's 32nd. Barbashev's tied with Copp and Heinen for 56th.

So, yeah. Trade still looks fair, but now it puts WSH over the cap, when Backstrom gets back.

Throw in something for Schultz and it could still work.



No. absolutely nothing about it works. Still, and forever.
 
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