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Who has more value

Created by: Devil
Team: 2020-21 New Jersey Devils
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 13, 2021
Published: Jun. 13, 2021
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  1. Marner, Mitchell
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Who has more value? Take into consideration contract, potential, linemates, etc
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2021
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24$81,500,000$72,945,720$0$1,330,000$8,554,280
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$3,400,000$3,400,000
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C
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RW
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LW
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C, LW
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RW, LW
UFA - 2
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C, LW
RFA - 2
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C, LW
RFA - 2
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RW
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RW, C
UFA - 1
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C
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LD
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RD
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$2,800,000$2,800,000
G
UFA - 3
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LD
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RD
UFA - 3
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G
UFA - 1
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LD/RD
RFA - 3
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RD
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G
UFA - 1
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LD
UFA - 1
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RD
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
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LW, RW
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 8:05 p.m.
#1
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I’d say it’s pretty close, leafs fans obviously will favour Marner. Hughes might have less value now, but I think in 2-3 years easily Hughes has more.
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 8:06 p.m.
#2
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Hughes, coming from a leafs fan.
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 8:23 p.m.
#3
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Hughes might have the value of ELC and C but the skill and output of course isn’t even in the same ballpark. $ for points ratio is probably pretty close but once Hughes signs his next contract he will need to double his points at the very least to be comparable. Hughes has played with talented players too. There’s a strong argument that marner makes stars even better. Tavares had his highest goal scoring season with him, now Matthews… Hughes doesn’t do this…. Yet… hopefully one day he has that effect.
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 8:35 p.m.
#4
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A team like CBJ or MIN will value Hughes more while a team like TOR/TB whose top6 C are solid will go with Marner. Marner has more value unless the position is one of need at C
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Jun. 13, 2021 at 9:04 p.m.
#5
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Speak of the Devil
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Quoting: NYR1983
Hughes might have the value of ELC and C but the skill and output of course isn’t even in the same ballpark. $ for points ratio is probably pretty close but once Hughes signs his next contract he will need to double his points at the very least to be comparable. Hughes has played with talented players too. There’s a strong argument that marner makes stars even better. Tavares had his highest goal scoring season with him, now Matthews… Hughes doesn’t do this…. Yet… hopefully one day he has that effect.


I agree and disagree with you. Hughes definitely makes the players around him better. He was playing with two rookies and definetly helped them produced. Marner had it easier with Matthews and Tavares as his centers. Not to mention the easier division
Jun. 13, 2021 at 9:17 p.m.
#6
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Hard to say. Marner being a winger that makes 2-3 million more than he should def doesn’t help his side. On the other side Hughes hasn’t had a 94 point season. I’d lean towards Hughes due to age and price tag, but Marner is a much better player right now
Jun. 13, 2021 at 11:57 p.m.
#7
Opie
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Eye of the beholder ...

Marner is a finished product, you know what you have & what you're paying for it. Sure, things can change, but the probability of a big move in either direction is very low.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Hughes potential (and success to date), the honest truth is that no one can be sure of what he will become. This could be as good as it gets ... or maybe there's consistent growth to high level Top 6 ... or maybe he becomes a first rate star ... hell, he could even regress ... all are possible.

What do you want ... security of what you know or play the upside trade with more financial flexibility?

Each franchise will have their own unique take.
Jun. 14, 2021 at 12:33 a.m.
#8
Hakuna Matata
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For now Marner, but in 5 years if Hughes takes that next step and becomes that star center Devils fans were wanting than his value will be greater as star centers have more value than wings
Jun. 14, 2021 at 12:34 a.m.
#9
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: Opie
Eye of the beholder ...

Marner is a finished product, you know what you have & what you're paying for it. Sure, things can change, but the probability of a big move in either direction is very low.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Hughes potential (and success to date), the honest truth is that no one can be sure of what he will become. This could be as good as it gets ... or maybe there's consistent growth to high level Top 6 ... or maybe he becomes a first rate star ... hell, he could even regress ... all are possible.

What do you want ... security of what you know or play the upside trade with more financial flexibility?

Each franchise will have their own unique take.


lul marner is not a finished product. Hes 24 years old. Your acting as if Marner is 30+ years old . Players continue to grow and develop through their careers.

Marner has been changing his game up year after year improving both offensively and defensively making him one of the best playmakers in the NHL

Hughes also has time to improve his game but it better come soon as so far its not been a good look for him
Jun. 14, 2021 at 12:42 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: SlevinKalevra
Hard to say. Marner being a winger that makes 2-3 million more than he should def doesn’t help his side. On the other side Hughes hasn’t had a 94 point season. I’d lean towards Hughes due to age and price tag, but Marner is a much better player right now


Marner is only 1 mill overpaid

in comparison with 2 other great RW

Kucherov makes 9.5 mill and the year of his contract signing he had

41 goals, 87 assists for 128 points.

Now its Florida money so he took a discount as with lower taxes he still makes the same as if he was making 11 on another team

Rantanen makes 9.25 mill and the year of his contract signing he had

31 goals, 56 assists for 87 points

Marner the year he signed his contract had

26 goals, 68 assists for 94 points

So in retrospect Marner makes 10.893 compared to 9.25 and 9.5 so 1 mill overpaid. Therefore Marners ideal range should have been 9.3-9.5 mill
Jun. 14, 2021 at 12:44 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: aadoyle
lul marner is not a finished product. Hes 24 years old. Your acting as if Marner is 30+ years old . Players continue to grow and develop through their careers.

Marner has been changing his game up year after year improving both offensively and defensively making him one of the best playmakers in the NHL

Hughes also has time to improve his game but it better come soon as so far its not been a good look for him


How hasn't it looked good for Hughes? He was fantastic this year.
Jun. 14, 2021 at 12:52 a.m.
#12
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Quoting: Devil1122
How hasn't it looked good for Hughes? He was fantastic this year.


11 goals and 20 assists in 56 games. I know the devils were not fantastic this year but he still has not reached that next stage. He looked alright but still has room for growth and good thing hes still young
Jun. 14, 2021 at 1:00 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: aadoyle
11 goals and 20 assists in 56 games. I know the devils were not fantastic this year but he still has not reached that next stage. He looked alright but still has room for growth and good thing hes still young


Stats don't tell the whole story

If you watched any devils games, you would know how good Hughes was

Generated the Devils offense and very good defensively (advanced stats and takeaways). He was a real difference maker on the ice. He just couldn't produce with no real sniper on his line
Jun. 14, 2021 at 6:14 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: Devil1122
I agree and disagree with you. Hughes definitely makes the players around him better. He was playing with two rookies and definetly helped them produced. Marner had it easier with Matthews and Tavares as his centers. Not to mention the easier division


So Hughes makes mediocre guys decent while Marner makes elite players better. This isn’t a comparison that can be made. It’s really not even close when it comes to skill, if it was, Jack would be getting all of his bonuses. This comparison is the equivalent to us comparing Kakko to Eichel. It’s not close. Now given our situation with awesome youth and already having high paid players we would choose Kakko so we don’t look like the leafs or tampa with struggling to resign guys(at least TB is getting cups to justify losing players). Weak division, yes, but only this season. Marner took JT from a 40G scorer to a 50G scorer. Hughes doesn’t have that capability YET. One day he might
Jun. 14, 2021 at 8:00 a.m.
#15
Opie
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Quoting: aadoyle
lul marner is not a finished product. Hes 24 years old. Your acting as if Marner is 30+ years old . Players continue to grow and develop through their careers.

Marner has been changing his game up year after year improving both offensively and defensively making him one of the best playmakers in the NHL

Hughes also has time to improve his game but it better come soon as so far its not been a good look for him


Sure, as I mentioned, he could change. Most NHLers peak (production) at 25, but a significant move is likely behind him. As experience helps him, physical skills will begin to erode.

IDK, Hughes looked pretty damn good for a 19 year old, esoecially so considering the circumstances, but I agree he could go in any direction.
Jun. 14, 2021 at 8:11 a.m.
#16
Opie
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Quoting: aadoyle
Marner is only 1 mill overpaid

in comparison with 2 other great RW

Kucherov makes 9.5 mill and the year of his contract signing he had

41 goals, 87 assists for 128 points.

Now its Florida money so he took a discount as with lower taxes he still makes the same as if he was making 11 on another team

Rantanen makes 9.25 mill and the year of his contract signing he had

31 goals, 56 assists for 87 points

Marner the year he signed his contract had

26 goals, 68 assists for 94 points

So in retrospect Marner makes 10.893 compared to 9.25 and 9.5 so 1 mill overpaid. Therefore Marners ideal range should have been 9.3-9.5 mill


The tough thing about Marner's contract are the other monster contracts on the same team. The are only so many contracts you can give out that take up nearly 13% of the cap & still expect to have the depth to win. For my taste, those contracts belong on the blueline or center.

He's a fantastic player who makes others better, I get it. I just dont think its the right place to put your cap dollars, when you already pay the guys the Leafs are paying now down the middle etc.
Jun. 14, 2021 at 8:24 a.m.
#17
Opie
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Quoting: NYR1983
So Hughes makes mediocre guys decent while Marner makes elite players better. This isn’t a comparison that can be made. It’s really not even close when it comes to skill, if it was, Jack would be getting all of his bonuses. This comparison is the equivalent to us comparing Kakko to Eichel. It’s not close. Now given our situation with awesome youth and already having high paid players we would choose Kakko so we don’t look like the leafs or tampa with struggling to resign guys(at least TB is getting cups to justify losing players). Weak division, yes, but only this season. Marner took JT from a 40G scorer to a 50G scorer. Hughes doesn’t have that capability YET. One day he might


I agree this is a tough comparison to make ... there is just no baseline given the dramatic differences in supporting casts.

Hughes took two rookies (a 2nd & 5th round pick, mind you) and made them relevant, while supported (kind of) by a poor blueline. Im not the biggest Hughes fan, but what he did with Lemons at 19 opened my eyes a bit.

He's not Marner, but give him a chance next to winger with JT level talent & I suspect he elevates production in a similar way. His vision, passing and skating are off the charts.
Jun. 14, 2021 at 8:40 a.m.
#18
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Speak of the Devil
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Edited Jun. 14, 2021 at 8:55 a.m.
Quoting: NYR1983
So Hughes makes mediocre guys decent while Marner makes elite players better. This isn’t a comparison that can be made. It’s really not even close when it comes to skill, if it was, Jack would be getting all of his bonuses. This comparison is the equivalent to us comparing Kakko to Eichel. It’s not close. Now given our situation with awesome youth and already having high paid players we would choose Kakko so we don’t look like the leafs or tampa with struggling to resign guys(at least TB is getting cups to justify losing players). Weak division, yes, but only this season. Marner took JT from a 40G scorer to a 50G scorer. Hughes doesn’t have that capability YET. One day he might


Im not saying Marner is getting carried or that Hughes is better right now, but what Hughes is doing when he was 19 was really good. He played little less than half the season with two rookies and produced well. Hughes played with two rookies that no one knew about before this year and helped their produce and generated most of the Devils offense. Both Sharangovich and Kuokkanen out performed Kaako and Laf btw
Jun. 14, 2021 at 12:12 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: Devil1122
Im not saying Marner is getting carried or that Hughes is better right now, but what Hughes is doing when he was 19 was really good. He played little less than half the season with two rookies and produced well. Hughes played with two rookies that no one knew about before this year and helped their produce and generated most of the Devils offense. Both Sharangovich and Kuokkanen out performed Kaako and Laf btw


I would hope so, time on ice matters. McDavid wouldn’t put up the same numbers if he was getting 3rd line time. Can you find their points/60min stats for comparison??
Jun. 14, 2021 at 12:16 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: NYR1983
I would hope so, time on ice matters. McDavid wouldn’t put up the same numbers if he was getting 3rd line time. Can you find their points/60min stats for comparison??


TNPJr98znUeeKGpM7

I don't really know much about advanced stats but hopefully this answers your question
Jun. 14, 2021 at 12:19 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: Opie
I agree this is a tough comparison to make ... there is just no baseline given the dramatic differences in supporting casts.

Hughes took two rookies (a 2nd & 5th round pick, mind you) and made them relevant, while supported (kind of) by a poor blueline. Im not the biggest Hughes fan, but what he did with Lemons at 19 opened my eyes a bit.

He's not Marner, but give him a chance next to winger with JT level talent & I suspect he elevates production in a similar way. His vision, passing and skating are off the charts.


I’m not saying he is garbage or anything. He is good, he isn’t on the same level as JT/Marner/Matthews though. There’s a gap between good and great, the same gap between JH and MM
Jun. 14, 2021 at 12:19 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: Devil1122
TNPJr98znUeeKGpM7

I don't really know much about advanced stats but hopefully this answers your question


The link isn’t working
Jun. 14, 2021 at 12:25 p.m.
#23
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Speak of the Devil
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Quoting: NYR1983
The link isn’t working


https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fs3951.pcdn.co%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F04%2FScreen-Shot-2021-04-18-at-8.56.29-PM.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fthehockeywriters.com%2Fdevils-hughes-special-teams-blackwood%2F&tbnid=MLUacNusQOawjM&vet=12ahUKEwi_tISxxJfxAhUJJd8KHavUDAYQMygCegQIARB6..i&docid=y5dM_bpXHtoi5M&w=1024&h=787&q=jack%20hughes%20advanced%20stats&safe=active&ved=2ahUKEwi_tISxxJfxAhUJJd8KHavUDAYQMygCegQIARB6&surl=1
Jun. 14, 2021 at 1:05 p.m.
#24
Opie
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Quoting: NYR1983
I’m not saying he is garbage or anything. He is good, he isn’t on the same level as JT/Marner/Matthews though. There’s a gap between good and great, the same gap between JH and MM


Absolutely true
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Jun. 14, 2021 at 1:07 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: Devil1122
TNPJr98znUeeKGpM7

I don't really know much about advanced stats but hopefully this answers your question


Quoting: Devil1122
Im not saying Marner is getting carried or that Hughes is better right now, but what Hughes is doing when he was 19 was really good. He played little less than half the season with two rookies and produced well. Hughes played with two rookies that no one knew about before this year and helped their produce and generated most of the Devils offense. Both Sharangovich and Kuokkanen out performed Kaako and Laf btw


So I’m not and extreme analytics guy so I don’t know what sites to use and even if it’s broken down into offensive/defensive zone starts and such. I imagine there’s sites that you pay for that’s. But I broke down both lines and prorated it as if they all played the 56 games and 20mins/gp..

Chytil-16G&28A (44pts)
Laf-17G&13A (30pts)
Kakko-15G&13A (28pts)

Hughes-12G&21A (33pts)
Shara-20G&17A (37pts)
Kuok-12G&26A (38pts)

Meanwhile
Marner-18G&43A (61pts)
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