Hamilton without trading Rielly

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That bottom 6 is horrible. Yikes. Wanting Hamilton and keeping Rielly is pure greed. Trade Rielly and sign Dougie. Spend some Cap on your bottom 6. I wouldn't assume Robertson is ready to be in your top 6. I like the kid. Big upside. But he's not NHL proven yet.

Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:14 a.m.

#3

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Quoting: MatthewsIsJesus

This is one horrible bottom 6, I think it'd be worth it not to have Hamilton

Agreed. I'd be far more concerned with the goaltending though. 82 games where you're probably running out one of Vehvilainen or Hutch 30+ games is a baaaaaad life choice. Add to that the fact that for as bad as the bottom 6 is, there's absolutely no depth when one of the Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Tavares combo inevitably gets injured. Plus, you really handcuff yourself for year 2 of this, even if you let Rielly walk.

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Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:19 a.m.

#4

Wreckless

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It’s a good start. Then trade Marner and replace him with 4 wingers who total his $11mm and you could be good to go.

Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:23 a.m.

#5

GarthBrooks

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Quoting: MatthewsIsJesus

This is one horrible bottom 6, I think it'd be worth it not to have Hamilton

Quoting: Letter_Kenny

That bottom 6 is horrible. Yikes. Wanting Hamilton and keeping Rielly is pure greed. Trade Rielly and sign Dougie. Spend some Cap on your bottom 6. I wouldn't assume Robertson is ready to be in your top 6. I like the kid. Big upside. But he's not NHL proven yet.

Quoting: Lenny7

Agreed. I'd be far more concerned with the goaltending though. 82 games where you're probably running out one of Vehvilainen or Hutch 30+ games is a baaaaaad life choice. Add to that the fact that for as bad as the bottom 6 is, there's absolutely no depth when one of the Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Tavares combo inevitably gets injured. Plus, you really handcuff yourself for year 2 of this, even if you let Rielly walk.

I know I just can’t pinpoint Rielly value to trade him. He’s a number 1 D man on the leafs but I don’t know a lot of teams that would want a smaller mobile D man on their top pair. And it’s not like the team has had any post season success, he’s been ridiculed a lot for his defense, whatever we get for him would not be enough for his value. Will he fetch a 1st? I think Chicago could use a top LD but what would we get back? If we can steal Strome that would be cool but iunno who’s adding

Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:26 a.m.

#6

GarthBrooks

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Quoting: Wreckless

It’s a good start. Then trade Marner and replace him with 4 wingers who total his $11mm and you could be good to go.

Lol nah he’s one of the faces of the team. Fan bases would go ballistic if they don’t get an overpayment back

Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:28 a.m.

#7

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Edited Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:33 a.m.

Quoting: GarthBrooks

I know I just can’t pinpoint Rielly value to trade him. He’s a number 1 D man on the leafs but I don’t know a lot of teams that would want a smaller mobile D man on their top pair. And it’s not like the team has had any post season success, he’s been ridiculed a lot for his defense, whatever we get for him would not be enough for his value. Will he fetch a 1st? I think Chicago could use a top LD but what would we get back? If we can steal Strome that would be cool but iunno who’s adding

You can still get a 1st for Rielly. Even rentals get 1st round picks at the trade deadline. The time to trade Rielly is after the Expansion Draft when teams don't have to worry about using an extra protection spot after acquiring him. I'd think the Jets might be interested. Pens maybe? Burke drafted him. Or perhaps Seattle? But you'd better make sure you have a great chance of signing Dougie. You don't want Dubas being left holding the bag with neither Rielly or Dougie.

Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:36 a.m.

#8

GarthBrooks

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Quoting: Letter_Kenny

You can still get a 1st for Rielly. Even rentals get 1st round picks at the trade deadline. The time to trade Rielly is after the Expansion Draft when teams don't have to worry about using an extra protection spot after acquiring him. I'd think the Jets might be interested. Pens maybe? Burke drafted him. Or perhaps Seattle? But you'd better make sure you have a great chance of signing Dougie. You don't want Dubas being left holding the bag with neither Rielly or Dougie.

Yea maybe I or someone should post an ACGM of just potential Rielly trades throughout the league and get feedback. Even sites like Sportsnet or the Athletic are avoiding mock Rielly trades even though it’s so blatantly obvious they can’t win with him as our top D man

Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:37 a.m.

#9

Wreckless

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Quoting: GarthBrooks

Lol nah he’s one of the faces of the team. Fan bases would go ballistic if they don’t get an overpayment back

When GMs make decisions based on what the “loud subsets” of the fan base might think or react to, they’re not doing their job.

It could lead to extreme periods of time where you find yourself incapable of winning even a single playoff series. Oh, wait a minute…

Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:39 a.m.

#10

Wreckless

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Quoting: GarthBrooks

Yea maybe I or someone should post an ACGM of just potential Rielly trades throughout the league and get feedback. Even sites like Sportsnet or the Athletic are avoiding mock Rielly trades even though it’s so blatantly obvious they can’t win with him as our top D man

Doesn’t mean you can’t win with him as part of your top 6. The way I see your team, you need more quality D, not less.

Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:39 a.m.

#11

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Quoting: GarthBrooks

Yea maybe I or someone should post an ACGM of just potential Rielly trades throughout the league and get feedback. Even sites like Sportsnet or the Athletic are avoiding mock Rielly trades even though it’s so blatantly obvious they can’t win with him as our top D man

That's because whichever team you offer Rielly to will be like Leaf fans and not want to give anything of value up. They'll act like their team already has 6 Norris trophy winners playing for them.

I always say if I took a time machine back one year and posted every trade over the past year on CFACGM pretty much everyone would tell me none of these trades will ever happen.

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Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:41 a.m.

#12

KFTW

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Quoting: Letter_Kenny

That bottom 6 is horrible. Yikes. Wanting Hamilton and keeping Rielly is pure greed. Trade Rielly and sign Dougie. Spend some Cap on your bottom 6. I wouldn't assume Robertson is ready to be in your top 6. I like the kid. Big upside. But he's not NHL proven yet.

This is it .
Muzzin-Hamilton
Brodie-Holl
Sandin-Hakanpaa

And then spend Rielly money on bottom 6

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Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:44 a.m.

#13

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Quoting: csick

This is it .
Muzzin-Hamilton
Brodie-Holl
Sandin-Hakanpaa

And then spend Rielly money on bottom 6

Better. Then you could sign a guy like Goodrow for some grit and snarl.

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Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:47 a.m.

#14

KFTW

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Quoting: Letter_Kenny

Better. Then you could sign a guy like Goodrow for some grit and snarl.

Goodrow, Coleman, Kuraly, McGinn, Cogliano (4th line), would all be good options.

Cogliano-Kuraly -Spezza could be a good 4th line with Cogliano and Spezza on the minimum

Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:48 a.m.

#15

LongtimeLeafsufferer

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So many Leaf posts seem so unrealistic to me. Good UFAs signed but no big contracts moved. Then the bottom six are filled with untried or poor NHLers, a iffy second goalie. I dread to see who are the the AHL replacements when injuries occur.

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Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:55 a.m.

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Quoting: csick

This is it .
Muzzin-Hamilton
Brodie-Holl
Sandin-Hakanpaa

And then spend Rielly money on bottom 6

Quoting: Letter_Kenny

Better. Then you could sign a guy like Goodrow for some grit and snarl.

Let me preface this by saying that Dougie>Rielly. I just don't know that it makes sense though...

If you're moving Rielly after the expansion draft, and before FA though, you run the risk of Hamilton saying "Do I want to fork over 50% of my paycheque to the government? Or should I sign in the states, where the value is a lot better?"

For instance, $8.5 mil in Toronto (using the Ontario Income Tax Calculator) equals $4.511 mil per year in taxes. Obviously you can fanagle that a bunch of different ways, but does trading Rielly and risking a major whiff on Hamilton make sense?

With a Rielly trade, you're obviously trading him as a rental to another contender. Does that make sense? I get the whole "We don't want to lose him for nothing!" argument, but if we consider the Leafs contenders, why are you upgrading someone elses team? To me, that's a bad strategy.

Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:56 a.m.

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Quoting: palhal

So many Leaf posts seem so unrealistic to me. Good UFAs signed but no big contracts moved. Then the bottom six are filled with untried or poor NHLers, a iffy second goalie. I dread to see who are the the AHL replacements when injuries occur.

Agreed. You guys have a really solid base, and while a Hamilton signing is sexy, it leaves you absolutely screwed when the inevitable top 6/top 3-4 dman goes down with injury.

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Jun. 16, 2021 at 9:59 a.m.

#18

KFTW

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Quoting: Lenny7

Agreed. You guys have a really solid base, and while a Hamilton signing is sexy, it leaves you absolutely screwed when the inevitable top 6/top 3-4 dman goes down with injury.

I’m thinking Steel as a good 3C in Toronto.
Liljgren + SDA/Hallander/Abramov + 2nd for Steel and Mahura. Thoughts?

Jun. 16, 2021 at 10:02 a.m.

#19

LongtimeLeafsufferer

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Quoting: Lenny7

Let me preface this by saying that Dougie>Rielly. I just don't know that it makes sense though...

If you're moving Rielly after the expansion draft, and before FA though, you run the risk of Hamilton saying "Do I want to fork over 50% of my paycheque to the government? Or should I sign in the states, where the value is a lot better?"

For instance, $8.5 mil in Toronto (using the Ontario Income Tax Calculator) equals $4.511 mil per year in taxes. Obviously you can fanagle that a bunch of different ways, but does trading Rielly and risking a major whiff on Hamilton make sense?

With a Rielly trade, you're obviously trading him as a rental to another contender. Does that make sense? I get the whole "We don't want to lose him for nothing!" argument, but if we consider the Leafs contenders, why are you upgrading someone elses team? To me, that's a bad strategy.

Under Canadian laws, income for "entertainers" and other groups can be incorporated so personal income tax really isn't a factor. Why never hear of Raptors or Blue Jays complaining about taxes in Toronto, but somehow it's big deal on CapFriendly.

But I agree with your comment on Reilly. Leafs are in a win mode now and will stick with him this year. But because of his point totals, not his overall play some team will overpay for him as a UFA, and I'm hoping its not my Leafs.

Jun. 16, 2021 at 10:05 a.m.

#20

LongtimeLeafsufferer

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Quoting: csick

I’m thinking Steel as a good 3C in Toronto.
Liljgren + SDA/Hallander/Abramov + 2nd for Steel and Mahura. Thoughts?

If only for cap reasons, the Leafs are really depending on Liljegren to make the the top 7 this season. And will be injuries he will be playing.
Hallander seems to really close to being an NHLer.
So as an optimistic Leaf fan, think the Leafs keep their guys.

Jun. 16, 2021 at 10:06 a.m.

#21

KFTW

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Quoting: palhal

If only for cap reasons, the Leafs are really depending on Liljegren to make the the top 7 this season. And will be injuries he will be playing.
Hallander seems to really close to being an NHLer.
So as an optimistic Leaf fan, think the Leafs keep their guys.

The fact that you said “Top 7” makes me believe even more he should be gone.

Jun. 16, 2021 at 10:09 a.m.

#22

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Quoting: palhal

Under Canadian laws, income for "entertainers" and other groups can be incorporated so personal income tax really isn't a factor. Why never hear of Raptors or Blue Jays complaining about taxes in Toronto, but somehow it's big deal on CapFriendly.

But I agree with your comment on Reilly. Leafs are in a win mode now and will stick with him this year. But because of his point totals, not his overall play some team will overpay for him as a UFA, and I'm hoping its not my Leafs.

As a Jays fan, I definitely hear it...https://www.sportico.com/leagues/baseball/2020/toronto-blue-jays-players-will-earn-federal-tax-breaks-playing-all-games-in-u-s-1234609484/

I also know that there are ways around it as well. Cheers!

Jun. 16, 2021 at 10:12 a.m.

#23

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Quoting: csick

I’m thinking Steel as a good 3C in Toronto.
Liljgren + SDA/Hallander/Abramov + 2nd for Steel and Mahura. Thoughts?

I think Toronto would balk at it...I'd do it, but I think people still see Lilly as the guy who was probably going top 3 in his draft year.

csick liked this.

Jun. 16, 2021 at 10:58 a.m.

#24

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Quoting: Lenny7

Let me preface this by saying that Dougie>Rielly. I just don't know that it makes sense though...

If you're moving Rielly after the expansion draft, and before FA though, you run the risk of Hamilton saying "Do I want to fork over 50% of my paycheque to the government? Or should I sign in the states, where the value is a lot better?"

For instance, $8.5 mil in Toronto (using the Ontario Income Tax Calculator) equals $4.511 mil per year in taxes. Obviously you can fanagle that a bunch of different ways, but does trading Rielly and risking a major whiff on Hamilton make sense?

With a Rielly trade, you're obviously trading him as a rental to another contender. Does that make sense? I get the whole "We don't want to lose him for nothing!" argument, but if we consider the Leafs contenders, why are you upgrading someone elses team? To me, that's a bad strategy.

That's a good point about Canadian taxes. I guess he could make it up in museum endorsements.

Jun. 16, 2021 at 2:05 p.m.

#25