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Top 6 C and Top 4 D

Created by: Wqrrior
Team: 2021-22 Ottawa Senators
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 23, 2021
Published: Jun. 23, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
6$4,875,000
8$7,500,000
2$1,350,000
2$850,000
2$750,000
1$874,125
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$1,400,000
Trades
1.
OTT
  1. Cirelli, Anthony
Additional Details:
I think Cirelli got pretty significantly overrated in 2019-20, but he did have a good year. It's hard to know if that was a one year high or a sign of what is to come. He's still a valuable piece, but not to the extent that he was the year before. I think a high level prospect and a 2nd is sufficient especially given their desperation to clear cap. I don't think Cirelli at 4.8m is the best use of that money.
TBL
  1. Pinto, Shane
  2. 2022 2nd round pick (TBL)
2.
OTT
  1. Pettersson, Marcus
Additional Details:
if Zucker or McCann are taken, I think White is a fit for this system. Both of these guys are overpaid, and POJ makes the D spot expendable.
White could rebound into a top 6 piece on PIT that is quite needed depending on the ED claims.
PIT
  1. White, Colin
  2. 2022 3rd round pick (BOS)
3.
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
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2022
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Logo of the NYI
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2023
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
24$81,500,000$64,759,383$0$3,907,500$16,740,617
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$7,500,000$7,500,000
LW
UFA - 7
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
C
UFA - 1
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$4,875,000$4,875,000
RW, LW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$4,800,000$4,800,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$874,125$874,125
C, LW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$3,600,000$3,600,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$747,500$747,500 (Performance Bonus$107,500$108K)
LW
RFA - 1
$1,400,000$1,400,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
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$749,250$749,250
C, LW
UFA - 1
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$800,000$800,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$8,000,000$8,000,000
LD
UFA - 7
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$450,000$450K)
LD/RD, LW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$4,687,500$4,687,500
G
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,025,175$4,025,175
LD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$1,350,000$1,350,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$850,000$850,000
G
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$750,000$750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$1,200,000$1,200,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$900,000$900,000
G
UFA - 1

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Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:14 a.m.
#1
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the penguins aren't trading for white.
Look this isn't JR.
Hextall isn't going to bring in bad cap if he moves cap out.
You are really undervaluing the defensive market to be honest. There is always a shortage of defensemen. Seattle is taking up 7 more.
Teams will be looking for defense. Moving a defensemen out of PIT isn't the problem. The bigger problem will be who can they replace them with when POJ clearly isn't ready.
Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:16 a.m.
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Tampa's not trading Cirelli, he will probably win a Selke in the next few years
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Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:18 a.m.
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I think we should hold put until we know what we have in Pinto. Cirelli had a down year with a lack on insulation. Pinto could easily be a two-way 1C and potentially better than Cirelli.

Quoting: pharrow
the penguins aren't trading for white.
Look this isn't JR.
Hextall isn't going to bring in bad cap if he moves cap out.
You are really undervaluing the defensive market to be honest. There is always a shortage of defensemen. Seattle is taking up 7 more.
Teams will be looking for defense. Moving a defensemen out of PIT isn't the problem. The bigger problem will be who can they replace them with when POJ clearly isn't ready.


How about a Chris Tierney + 3rd for Pettersson?
Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:19 a.m.
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Pinto is going to be at least as good as Cirelli, and Pinto is a right shot, and good at faceoffs. Ottawa wouldn’t trade Pinto straight up for Cirelli.

White for Pettersson isn’t likely either. White might not be great, but he’s not bad, and he’s needed more than Pettersson.

The added picks wouldn’t happen regardless.
Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:26 a.m.
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Cirelli is like a better, younger Danault. You’re undervaluing him here.
Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:28 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: sensibleguy
Pinto is going to be at least as good as Cirelli, and Pinto is a right shot, and good at faceoffs. Ottawa wouldn’t trade Pinto straight up for Cirelli.

White for Pettersson isn’t likely either. White might not be great, but he’s not bad, and he’s needed more than Pettersson.

The added picks wouldn’t happen regardless.


That’s cap
Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:39 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: jwg314
Cirelli is like a better, younger Danault. You’re undervaluing him here.


Quoting: jwg314
That’s cap


I like Cirelli, he’s a good defensive 2C, but he’ll struggle to put up points to take him to the next level. Pinto is solid defensively, not as good as Cirelli of course, but he’ll be a 200 foot centre, but he’ll have a better chance to crack 50 points while being a good right shot faceoff centre, a skill so many right shot centres struggle with. Being right shot is also desirable with so many left shot centres around.

So Cirelli is worth more today, but that’s going to change very soon. Ottawa is in it for the long haul, and they don’t need today’s better player, but prefer tomorrow’s better player. This doesn’t undercut Cirelli’s value, just explains Pinto’s.
Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:43 a.m.
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Quoting: sensibleguy
I like Cirelli, he’s a good defensive 2C, but he’ll struggle to put up points to take him to the next level. Pinto is solid defensively, not as good as Cirelli of course, but he’ll be a 200 foot centre, but he’ll have a better chance to crack 50 points while being a good right shot faceoff centre, a skill so many right shot centres struggle with. Being right shot is also desirable with so many left shot centres around.

So Cirelli is worth more today, but that’s going to change very soon. Ottawa is in it for the long haul, and they don’t need today’s better player, but prefer tomorrow’s better player. This doesn’t undercut Cirelli’s value, just explains Pinto’s.


This is a valuable assessment, however from what I have gathered Ottawa is still looking for a top 6 center for now. I don't think Pinto quite fits that timeline at least yet. Cirelli's value might also be constrained due to the abundance of talent around him. I can't see tampa moving him unless Pinto is in the return. I think they are very comparable players just one is a bit more developed than the other. Where I agree with your Right Shot views, I don't think many GMs give all that much attention to that.

Still, I am highly intrigued at what your counter deal would be. Clearly Cirelli is a fit both systematically and for management. Say I'm JBB bringing this offer to the table, and you are Dorion. What do you counter with?
Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:44 a.m.
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Quoting: jwg314
Cirelli is like a better, younger Danault. You’re undervaluing him here.


Pinto is also a younger and potentially to-be better if not equal Cirelli. You're undervaluing Pinto here.
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Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:49 a.m.
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Quoting: sensibleguy

White for Pettersson isn’t likely either. White might not be great, but he’s not bad, and he’s needed more than Pettersson.

The added picks wouldn’t happen regardless.


I would agree that he is needed more in the case that the Cirelli trade doesn't happen, or that a 2C isn't acquired.
But after a 2C spot is filled, White gets pushed down. Less opportunity to thrive. More of a cap dump. It'd just be a sinking ship as he falls out of favor year over year until nothing is left to sell on. I just don't see a long term fit especially if a new top 6er is added to the picture.
He's at an age right now where the bounce back potential should have some GMs leaning in. OTT management has also established they want a top 4D, which is reasonable on paper too. Lateral seems favorable for white, on a similar contract, which is why I went with MP.
Where I agree with some of Pharrow's takes, I think he's undervaluing white's pure trade value and overvaluing MP. I also know he is higher on MP than most pens fans. I was intending on going lateral, but I used the Domi deal as my reference. He's right that defense has more value than forwards. Thus the add. It's not a game breaking add either.
White is totally a Hextall type player, and MP fits Ottawa's system. He's an upgrade over Reilly and would thrive with Zub.
Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:55 a.m.
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Quoting: Wqrrior
This is a valuable assessment, however from what I have gathered Ottawa is still looking for a top 6 center for now. I don't think Pinto quite fits that timeline at least yet. Cirelli's value might also be constrained due to the abundance of talent around him. I can't see tampa moving him unless Pinto is in the return. I think they are very comparable players just one is a bit more developed than the other. Where I agree with your Right Shot views, I don't think many GMs give all that much attention to that.

Still, I am highly intrigued at what your counter deal would be. Clearly Cirelli is a fit both systematically and for management. Say I'm JBB bringing this offer to the table, and you are Dorion. What do you counter with?


Quoting: Wqrrior
I would agree that he is needed more in the case that the Cirelli trade doesn't happen, or that a 2C isn't acquired.
But after a 2C spot is filled, White gets pushed down. Less opportunity to thrive. More of a cap dump. It'd just be a sinking ship as he falls out of favor year over year until nothing is left to sell on. I just don't see a long term fit especially if a new top 6er is added to the picture.
He's at an age right now where the bounce back potential should have some GMs leaning in. OTT management has also established they want a top 4D, which is reasonable on paper too. Lateral seems favorable for white, on a similar contract, which is why I went with MP.
Where I agree with some of Pharrow's takes, I think he's undervaluing white's pure trade value and overvaluing MP. I also know he is higher on MP than most pens fans. I was intending on going lateral, but I used the Domi deal as my reference. He's right that defense has more value than forwards. Thus the add. It's not a game breaking add either.
White is totally a Hextall type player, and MP fits Ottawa's system. He's an upgrade over Reilly and would thrive with Zub.


I wouldn’t trade for Cirelli because of how his contract is structured. He is set to earn $7.2MM in his final year, and since it’s a RFA contract, that $7.2MM would be the QO for the next season. Is Cirelli worth $7.2MM?
Jun. 23, 2021 at 3:12 a.m.
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Quoting: sensibleguy
I wouldn’t trade for Cirelli because of how his contract is structured. He is set to earn $7.2MM in his final year, and since it’s a RFA contract, that $7.2MM would be the QO for the next season. Is Cirelli worth $7.2MM?


Depends. But fair point.

If he returns to last year's form and brings the offense with it, I think he's worth that on a moderately scaled contract. But that is a pretty decent IF given his fallback this year and Ottawa being a less offensive team.

Who is your target 2C?
Jun. 23, 2021 at 4:09 a.m.
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Quoting: Wqrrior
Depends. But fair point.

If he returns to last year's form and brings the offense with it, I think he's worth that on a moderately scaled contract. But that is a pretty decent IF given his fallback this year and Ottawa being a less offensive team.

Who is your target 2C?


White, without Paul on his wing, and eventually Pinto.

I personally believe a short term 2LD is the highest priority, and just letting the centre depth continue with;
Norris
White
Pinto
Tierney
Paul
Amadio
Bishop
Jun. 23, 2021 at 7:07 a.m.
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Quoting: sensibleguy
Pinto is going to be at least as good as Cirelli, and Pinto is a right shot, and good at faceoffs. Ottawa wouldn’t trade Pinto straight up for Cirelli.

White for Pettersson isn’t likely either. White might not be great, but he’s not bad, and he’s needed more than Pettersson.

The added picks wouldn’t happen regardless.


Pinto is a solid prospect but Cirelli has been a Selke nominee in both of his only NHL seasons. Thats a really high ceiling to be "at least as good as"
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Jun. 23, 2021 at 7:31 a.m.
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Edited Jun. 23, 2021 at 11:02 a.m.
why dont you just over pay on 2 yrs UFA contracts for Krejci and Hakanpää instead? No lost assets and Ottawa fill the holes
Jun. 23, 2021 at 7:55 a.m.
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Quoting: sensibleguy
I like Cirelli, he’s a good defensive 2C, but he’ll struggle to put up points to take him to the next level. Pinto is solid defensively, not as good as Cirelli of course, but he’ll be a 200 foot centre, but he’ll have a better chance to crack 50 points while being a good right shot faceoff centre, a skill so many right shot centres struggle with. Being right shot is also desirable with so many left shot centres around.

So Cirelli is worth more today, but that’s going to change very soon. Ottawa is in it for the long haul, and they don’t need today’s better player, but prefer tomorrow’s better player. This doesn’t undercut Cirelli’s value, just explains Pinto’s.


Quoting: Wqrrior
Pinto is also a younger and potentially to-be better if not equal Cirelli. You're undervaluing Pinto here.


Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Pinto is a solid prospect but Cirelli has been a Selke nominee in both of his only NHL seasons. Thats a really high ceiling to be "at least as good as"


"At least as good as" as in overall combined contributions, not specific skill versus specific skill. There are going to be areas where Cirelli will be better, and areas where Pinto will be better, I'm looking at the total package. I expect Pinto to out produce Cirelli eventually, while still playing a good 200 foot game.
Jun. 23, 2021 at 10:58 a.m.
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Quoting: gavinray
I think we should hold put until we know what we have in Pinto. Cirelli had a down year with a lack on insulation. Pinto could easily be a two-way 1C and potentially better than Cirelli.



How about a Chris Tierney + 3rd for Pettersson?


I can't see why they would do that. They could do better with 3.5 mil in cap.

I just don't see teams having issues moving defense. This isn't last year. Where VGK was moving guys for cap reasons. Even if a team is tight on the cap, the market for defense is at an all time high.
If you have it in abundance you can move it. Even if it's not bringing in a huge return like Matheson probably won't, you can still move it without it costing you anything, including taking a guy back.

PIT isn't moving defense because of bad play, they are doing it for cap. Why would they move it out and bring in 3.5 mil more back in. That doesn't make no sense.
Jun. 23, 2021 at 1:07 p.m.
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Quoting: pharrow
I can't see why they would do that. They could do better with 3.5 mil in cap.

I just don't see teams having issues moving defense. This isn't last year. Where VGK was moving guys for cap reasons. Even if a team is tight on the cap, the market for defense is at an all time high.
If you have it in abundance you can move it. Even if it's not bringing in a huge return like Matheson probably won't, you can still move it without it costing you anything, including taking a guy back.

PIT isn't moving defense because of bad play, they are doing it for cap. Why would they move it out and bring in 3.5 mil more back in. That doesn't make no sense.


Except Pettersson's play was bad this year..... Lowest average toi during the regular season of any defenceman on the team and by FAR the lowest i the playoffs at only 12 mins/game.

I wouldnt want him on my team on that contract. Looks horrendous right now. Certainly wouldnt give up White, let alone pay them an extra pick.
Jun. 23, 2021 at 2:51 p.m.
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Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
Except Pettersson's play was bad this year..... Lowest average toi during the regular season of any defenceman on the team and by FAR the lowest i the playoffs at only 12 mins/game.

I wouldnt want him on my team on that contract. Looks horrendous right now. Certainly wouldnt give up White, let alone pay them an extra pick.


this is such a non factor.
mins/game doesn't really mean anything. And that's not the lowest in the playoffs anyway.
That number is skewed by the possession numbers and the penguins hiding the 2nd pairing in the Ozone to keep it out of the Dzone.
Here are some real facts though. Teams, will be lacking defense this year. FA has limited options, and there aren't enough to go around.
You just don't seem to get that. But remember, Jack Johnson got a contract last year. Wrap your head around that.
There is a serious need for defense. Even in past years marginal defensemen have shown to have value. This year the market is even worse.
So if you are in need of a defensemen, good luck. It's a sellers market.
Jun. 23, 2021 at 3:37 p.m.
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Quoting: pharrow
this is such a non factor.
mins/game doesn't really mean anything. And that's not the lowest in the playoffs anyway.
That number is skewed by the possession numbers and the penguins hiding the 2nd pairing in the Ozone to keep it out of the Dzone.
Here are some real facts though. Teams, will be lacking defense this year. FA has limited options, and there aren't enough to go around.
You just don't seem to get that. But remember, Jack Johnson got a contract last year. Wrap your head around that.
There is a serious need for defense. Even in past years marginal defensemen have shown to have value. This year the market is even worse.
So if you are in need of a defensemen, good luck. It's a sellers market.


I think this is true to an extent, but not for everyone. I know you are higher on MP than most pens fans, but the market doesn't automatically mean all defensemen have inflated prices. MP still has an expensive cap for what he brings. I don't think his value is any different next year than it was at this time last year.

With this logic, Zaitsev can be moved at a premium despite his well recognized bad cap and term. MP isn't quite as bad a contract, but it's not extremely far off. Both are 2-3m defensemen in real value getting paid more than their worth (I know MP's original structure with that 1 yr QO makes it a 3.5x6, which would be much more ideal to have in hindsight).

In such a situation, you would probably agree that its best to hang on to MP. This isn't a player that teams would overpay for.
I just really like White's fit on PIT as a Zucker replacement if he is the ED claim.
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Jun. 23, 2021 at 5:28 p.m.
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Quoting: pharrow
this is such a non factor.
mins/game doesn't really mean anything. And that's not the lowest in the playoffs anyway.
That number is skewed by the possession numbers and the penguins hiding the 2nd pairing in the Ozone to keep it out of the Dzone.
Here are some real facts though. Teams, will be lacking defense this year. FA has limited options, and there aren't enough to go around.
You just don't seem to get that. But remember, Jack Johnson got a contract last year. Wrap your head around that.
There is a serious need for defense. Even in past years marginal defensemen have shown to have value. This year the market is even worse.
So if you are in need of a defensemen, good luck. It's a sellers market.


PLEASE enlighten me as to which Pens defenceman played less than Pettersson in the playoffs? Talking about alternative facts, go look at the game logs lol.

I’m not saying toi is everything but it’s relevant and saying that he didn’t have a worse year than the last is just wrong. Also had the worst offensive production of his young career. That’s called regression. Being trusted on the PP or PK consistently would be a good place to start next season.

Jack Johnson got signed, yes, but not for the term and money Pettersson has. If he was a free agent I’d have no problem with signing him but that’s not what we’re talking about right? If he was signed for less term and dollars we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Ottawa has no need for a LD. If he was on the right side the conversation would be different but if he’s so valuable then keep him! Saying the contract doesn’t look bad right now just isn’t true.
Jun. 24, 2021 at 4:00 a.m.
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Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
PLEASE enlighten me as to which Pens defenceman played less than Pettersson in the playoffs? Talking about alternative facts, go look at the game logs lol.

I’m not saying toi is everything but it’s relevant and saying that he didn’t have a worse year than the last is just wrong. Also had the worst offensive production of his young career. That’s called regression. Being trusted on the PP or PK consistently would be a good place to start next season.

Jack Johnson got signed, yes, but not for the term and money Pettersson has. If he was a free agent I’d have no problem with signing him but that’s not what we’re talking about right? If he was signed for less term and dollars we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Ottawa has no need for a LD. If he was on the right side the conversation would be different but if he’s so valuable then keep him! Saying the contract doesn’t look bad right now just isn’t true.


1st I'm not the one making this trade, or speculating OTT has a need for LD. I don't know what that has to do with anything here. I simply commented on the trade as is.
Second, you can look at those games in the playoffs and realize when they needed stops in the defensive end, they roled MP out there over MM every time. So this whole minutes thing is very skewed as I said. When you hold possession you put the pair you hide in the OZone. Which is what happened. So you can start tying how they used him to the numbers. Yes clearly the offensive production is going to go down, when he gets his time in his own end most of the time.

The term and the amount of JJ being signed really isn't the point. The point is, JJ should have never got a contract to begin with. He's clearly not an NHL level player at this point. But he got one because of an overwhelming demand for something there isn't any of. I don't know how you can't get that point.

Quoting: Wqrrior
I think this is true to an extent, but not for everyone. I know you are higher on MP than most pens fans, but the market doesn't automatically mean all defensemen have inflated prices. MP still has an expensive cap for what he brings. I don't think his value is any different next year than it was at this time last year.

With this logic, Zaitsev can be moved at a premium despite his well recognized bad cap and term. MP isn't quite as bad a contract, but it's not extremely far off. Both are 2-3m defensemen in real value getting paid more than their worth (I know MP's original structure with that 1 yr QO makes it a 3.5x6, which would be much more ideal to have in hindsight).

In such a situation, you would probably agree that its best to hang on to MP. This isn't a player that teams would overpay for.
I just really like White's fit on PIT as a Zucker replacement if he is the ED claim.


Clearly the 1 "free" year has inflated his contract a bit, but he's a 2nd pairing guy. Today you can expect to pay 4 mil for that. So I don't view the cap hit the same way you do. If you signed a guy to play 2LD on the market this year, my guess is you are looking at 4.5+ For two reasons. A. the TV deals are done, and guys want paid. B. the need for defense is high.
I agree they should hold onto MP. I'm not the one proposing they move him. But that's because I realize the grass isn't always greener on the other end.
If you move him and Matheson (which should be the guy they move), then you have to fill a hole. Truth is, there isn't a lot out there to fill it with.
Which gets back to the demand > Supply. Every defenseman available to teams looking for one, is also a hole on another team being created. It's musical chairs with way more chairs than people at this point. So I'd expect to see more expensive contracts, for longer term(aka perk to the player), for guys to sign. I'd also expect to see 1-2 trades from Seattle on defensemen, causing even more issues.
This market is much worse than I think people want to be honest about. But that's going to be clear after the first 3-4 days of free agency, because defense is going to fly off the board and that will be that. You will have either filled the hole or scramble to find a body. When guys get hurt this year, which happens every year, the ability to find a replacement is going to be much harder.
Jun. 24, 2021 at 12:52 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: pharrow
Jun. 24, 2021 at 12:53 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: pharrow
1st I'm not the one making this trade, or speculating OTT has a need for LD. I don't know what that has to do with anything here. I simply commented on the trade as is.
Second, you can look at those games in the playoffs and realize when they needed stops in the defensive end, they roled MP out there over MM every time. So this whole minutes thing is very skewed as I said. When you hold possession you put the pair you hide in the OZone. Which is what happened. So you can start tying how they used him to the numbers. Yes clearly the offensive production is going to go down, when he gets his time in his own end most of the time.

The term and the amount of JJ being signed really isn't the point. The point is, JJ should have never got a contract to begin with. He's clearly not an NHL level player at this point. But he got one because of an overwhelming demand for something there isn't any of. I don't know how you can't get that point.



The minutes are relevant because you tried to say that wasn't the lowest in the playoffs when the reality of the situation is that it was the lowest by a landslide. He played almost 5 mins less per game than the next lowest defenseman, Marino. Also played almost NINE minutes less than the 4th most used defenseman, Matheson. Your point about zone starts might have been relevant if he wasn't playing so much less than literally every other defenseman. Matheson was playing almost a half a period more than him over the course of a series where they were trailing often. saying they played MP over MM is cap.

Ottawa's lack of need at LD is relevant because you ended your last comment saying "If youre in need of defensemen, good luck." So im simply pointing out to you that Ottawa is not in need of LD.

The Jack Johnson point holds no water because a replacement level D at almost the league minimum is irrelevant. He was signed to sit in the press box and occupy a spot that needs to be filled on the taxi squad. You're blowing this out of proportion. He played 13 games. The bodies on the taxi squad also need to be able to clear waivers and who i ntheir right mind would claim JJ? Very simply, if there were no mandatory taxi squads then he wouldnt have been signed at all.
Jun. 24, 2021 at 1:44 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
The minutes are relevant because you tried to say that wasn't the lowest in the playoffs when the reality of the situation is that it was the lowest by a landslide. He played almost 5 mins less per game than the next lowest defenseman, Marino. Also played almost NINE minutes less than the 4th most used defenseman, Matheson. Your point about zone starts might have been relevant if he wasn't playing so much less than literally every other defenseman. Matheson was playing almost a half a period more than him over the course of a series where they were trailing often. saying they played MP over MM is cap.

Ottawa's lack of need at LD is relevant because you ended your last comment saying "If youre in need of defensemen, good luck." So im simply pointing out to you that Ottawa is not in need of LD.

The Jack Johnson point holds no water because a replacement level D at almost the league minimum is irrelevant. He was signed to sit in the press box and occupy a spot that needs to be filled on the taxi squad. You're blowing this out of proportion. He played 13 games. The bodies on the taxi squad also need to be able to clear waivers and who i ntheir right mind would claim JJ? Very simply, if there were no mandatory taxi squads then he wouldnt have been signed at all.


you are really missing the points here.
JJ being signed due to his being able to pass through waivers is laughable. JJ got signed because they couldn't find anyone else. Which is exactly the point. Believe me, if they could have found anyone else they would have.
Again, I did not say OTT needed a LD. that was never the point here. Nor was there ever any need to "point it out" that adds nothing to the conversation.
MPs minutes are directly related to where the puck is on the ice. You are talking about games where the penguins were having 60-65% of the puck possession in most of the games in 5v5 play.
if you take 40% of the 60 minutes...rough estimate, that's 24 minutes, you divide that by 2 units on the ice and that's 12 minutes a night.
You are over here going....he got 12 minutes a night......and I'm telling you, yeah, that's about correct.
When the guy who's suppose to be helping on the Dzone, and splitting shifts there with the 1D pair, while the 2D pair splits the Ozone with the 1D pair.
You get ........12 mintues a night.
 
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