Forums/Armchair-GM

Bye Bye Marner

Created by: dannymills4
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 7, 2021
Published: Jun. 25, 2021
Team: 2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Dermott, Travis1$950,000
Woll, Joseph2$850,000
Duszak, Joseph1$800,000
Petan, Nicolas1$800,000
Vehvilainen, Veini2$975,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Spezza, Jason1$750,000
Hamilton, Dougie6$7,500,000
Driedger, Chris2$2,000,000
Goodrow, Barclay2$1,250,000
Granlund, Mikael3$3,500,000
Bogosian, Zach1$1,000,000
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Tkachuk, Matthew
  2. Mangiapane, Andrew
CGY
  1. Marner, Mitchell
2.
TOR
    SEA
    1. Kerfoot, Alexander
    3.
    TOR
    1. Terry, Troy
    2. 2021 5th round pick (EDM)
    ANA
    1. Engvall, Pierre
    2. Holl, Justin
    4.
    TOR
    1. 2022 4th round pick (LAK)
    LAK
    1. Mikheyev, Ilya
    5.
    TOR
    1. Konecny, Travis
    PHI
    1. Rielly, Morgan
    6.
    TOR
    1. 2022 4th round pick (NYI)
    NJD
    1. Dermott, Travis
    Retained Salary Transactions
    • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2021
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the EDM
    Logo of the TOR
    2022
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the LAK
    Logo of the NYI
    Logo of the TOR
    2023
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$81,500,000$81,206,783$0$400,000$293,217

    Roster

    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    Logo of the CGY
    Tkachuk, Matthew
    $7,000,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Matthews, Auston
    $11,640,250
    C
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the TOR
    Nylander, William
    $6,962,366
    RW, LW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the CGY
    Mangiapane, Andrew
    $2,425,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Tavares, John
    $11,000,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the PHI
    Konecny, Travis
    $5,500,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the TOR
    Robertson, Nicholas
    $796,667
    LW
    RFA - 3
    Granlund, Mikael
    $3,500,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the ANA
    Terry, Troy
    $1,450,000
    RW, C
    RFA - 2
    Goodrow, Barclay
    $1,250,000
    LW, C, RW
    NTC
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the TOR
    Semyonov, Kirill
    $825,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Spezza, Jason
    $750,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the TOR
    Muzzin, Jake
    $5,625,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    Hamilton, Dougie
    $7,500,000
    RD
    NMC
    UFA - 7
    Logo of the TOR
    Campbell, Jack
    $1,650,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Sandin, Rasmus
    $894,167
    LD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Brodie, TJ
    $5,000,000
    LD/RD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    Driedger, Chris
    $2,000,000
    G
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the TOR
    Liljegren, Timothy
    $863,333
    RD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Bogosian, Zach
    $1,000,000
    RD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the TOR
    Petan, Nicolas
    $800,000
    C, LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Woll, Joseph
    $850,000
    G
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Brooks, Adam
    $725,000
    C
    UFA - 1

    Special Teams

    Power Play 1
    Tkachuk, M.
    Matthews, A.
    Nylander, W.
    Tavares, J.
    Sandin, R.
    Power Play 2
    , .
    , .
    Mangiapane, A.
    Robertson, N.
    Hamilton, D.
    Penalty Kill 1
    Tkachuk, M.
    Terry, T.
    Muzzin, J.
    Brodie, T.
    Penalty Kill 2
    Goodrow, B.
    Konecny, T.
    Liljegren, T.
    Bogosian, Z.

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    Jun. 25, 2021 at 2:57 p.m.
    #1
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    I would do that trade but the Flames fans won't do Tkachuk for Marner 1 for 1
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 2:59 p.m.
    #2
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    also I would rather keep Rielly.
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    Jun. 25, 2021 at 2:59 p.m.
    #3
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    no one would do a one for one for Marner. He hasn't proved he can play in the playoffs.
    Gmonwy liked this.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:01 p.m.
    #4
    Aka FaulkmyDzingel
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    Quoting: kous
    I would do that trade but the Flames fans won't do Tkachuk for Marner 1 for 1


    Not so much that the value isn't there. But trading Tkachuk for Marner changes the Flames approach drastically. Flames have a high energy, gritty, power forward to build their team around. Acquiring Marner changes that process.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:02 p.m.
    #5
    Aka FaulkmyDzingel
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    Quoting: TGDline
    no one would do a one for one for Marner. He hasn't proved he can play in the playoffs.


    Stats beg to differ. Also, what exactly has Tkachuk done in playoffs?
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:08 p.m.
    #6
    Jah1722
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    Just about everyone declines. Even tho Marner’s production is higher than Tkachuk’s, because Tkachuk plays the way he does and still produces at his rate his value will be a little inflated. I think it’s closer to a 1 for 1 for Marner. The ducks aren’t moving Terry unless it’s for a major upgrade. He made a huge jump in his overall play this season. I don’t see PHI moving Konecny for a pure offensive Dman. They need a RHD. I’d imagine if the move Konecny it would be for a Provorov partner.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:09 p.m.
    #7
    T.D.G line.
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    well for starters he'll go into the corners. he puts the puck in the net and he almost did as well as Marner did in this years playoff and he didn't play. haha go Habs go.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:10 p.m.
    #8
    Jah1722
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    Quoting: faulkmydzingel
    Not so much that the value isn't there. But trading Tkachuk for Marner changes the Flames approach drastically. Flames have a high energy, gritty, power forward to build their team around. Acquiring Marner changes that process.


    This. It’s not about the value of the players as I think their pretty close to even. It’s that the way they play would change the outlook of both teams leading to even more changes especially for CGY.
    DrDinkiee liked this.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:10 p.m.
    #9
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    Quoting: TGDline
    no one would do a one for one for Marner. He hasn't proved he can play in the playoffs.


    Marner has 25 points in 32 games his numbers are not bad in the playoffs. not great but not bad either and he is only 23 Tkachuk has 5 points in 15? I shack my head with these comments

    Quoting: faulkmydzingel
    Not so much that the value isn't there. But trading Tkachuk for Marner changes the Flames approach drastically. Flames have a high energy, gritty, power forward to build their team around. Acquiring Marner changes that process.


    I agree I think Marner is the better player and don't think Value wise the deal is that bad. Tkachuk is the type of winger the Leaf's need.

    At the end of the day if Marner was sitting at $9M-$9.5M cap he would not get the amount of flack that he gets.
    DrDinkiee liked this.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:15 p.m.
    #10
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    Id do that flames deal 100%.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:18 p.m.
    #11
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    Marner isn’t a cap dump, he’s a 90 pt player, that said he’s the best one for leafs to move with the amount tied up in top four
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:28 p.m.
    #12
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    Quoting: kous
    Marner has 25 points in 32 games his numbers are not bad in the playoffs. not great but not bad either and he is only 23 Tkachuk has 5 points in 15? I shack my head with these comments



    I agree I think Marner is the better player and don't think Value wise the deal is that bad. Tkachuk is the type of winger the Leaf's need.

    At the end of the day if Marner was sitting at $9M-$9.5M cap he would not get the amount of flack that he gets.


    You can't evaluate Marner without looking at Matthews. Notice, when Matthews doesn't produce, Marner doesn't either. Clear evidence in the playoff series against MTL. Marner's stats are inflated with Matthews. He's still a very good player, but i personally wouldn't take Marner over Tkachuk
    athrin liked this.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:32 p.m.
    #13
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    Leafs fans you need to understand that Marner might not even be able to get you Tkachuck 1 for 1, Stop adding Mangiapane to the trade
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:34 p.m.
    #14
    T.D.G line.
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    Your not winning a Marner trade right out of the gate like this one. you'll get a good vet a good young player who is almost ready to break out or bust. top pospect and a pick. if your looking for a 1st it will cost more then just Marner. Get real leaf fans.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:37 p.m.
    #15
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    Quoting: kous
    Marner has 25 points in 32 games his numbers are not bad in the playoffs. not great but not bad either and he is only 23 Tkachuk has 5 points in 15? I shack my head with these comments
    I agree I think Marner is the better player and don't think Value wise the deal is that bad. Tkachuk is the type of winger the Leaf's need.

    At the end of the day if Marner was sitting at $9M-$9.5M cap he would not get the amount of flack that he gets.


    anything over 8m is overpaid for marner, if he was a center, 9M could be argued, teams such as oilers and leafs are learning the hard way that paying 2-4 players 10Mplus and having 3rd and 4th liners to fill out the rest of the team and a mediocre D and average goal tending is a bad way to build a team for playoff success.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:37 p.m.
    #16
    Jah1722
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    You can't evaluate Marner without looking at Matthews. Notice, when Matthews doesn't produce, Marner doesn't either. Clear evidence in the playoff series against MTL. Marner's stats are inflated with Matthews. He's still a very good player, but i personally wouldn't take Marner over Tkachuk


    Correct me if wrong but wasn’t this the first season Marner and Matthews played together? Marner was with Tavares last season on a “shut down” line. And I know Nylander and Matthews were together a lot early in their careers.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:42 p.m.
    #17
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    Quoting: TGDline
    Your not winning a Marner trade right out of the gate like this one. you'll get a good vet a good young player who is almost ready to break out or bust. top pospect and a pick. if your looking for a 1st it will cost more then just Marner. Get real leaf fans.


    leafs fans overvalue their overpaid players, no team will trade a mid 20s 5-6M 60+ point player for marner, best they will do IMP is a late 20s early 30s player, prospect and picks, the real win tho is getting rid of his 11m cap hit, leafs need to find Tyler Taffolis and josh anderson, byron type players, make less than 6M that can play big, they need also a goaltender and to fix they D, leafs are a mess, 50% of cap for just 4 players....
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:49 p.m.
    #18
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    Quoting: athrin
    leafs fans overvalue their overpaid players, no team will trade a mid 20s 5-6M 60+ point player for marner, best they will do IMP is a late 20s early 30s player, prospect and picks, the real win tho is getting rid of his 11m cap hit, leafs need to find Tyler Taffolis and josh anderson, byron type players, make less than 6M that can play big, they need also a goaltender and to fix they D, leafs are a mess, 50% of cap for just 4 players....


    yep there G.M mess up big time.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:51 p.m.
    #19
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    Edited Jun. 25, 2021 at 4:04 p.m.
    Quoting: Jah1722
    Correct me if wrong but wasn’t this the first season Marner and Matthews played together? Marner was with Tavares last season on a “shut down” line. And I know Nylander and Matthews were together a lot early in their careers.


    Marner was with Matthews quite a bit last year...maybe later in the season, two years ago he wasn't.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:51 p.m.
    #20
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    Quoting: TGDline
    yep there G.M mess up big time.


    NHL fans are also going to have to accept that most elite players do not care about winning a cup but getting as much money as they can
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    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:54 p.m.
    #21
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    Quoting: athrin
    anything over 8m is overpaid for marner, if he was a center, 9M could be argued, teams such as oilers and leafs are learning the hard way that paying 2-4 players 10Mplus and having 3rd and 4th liners to fill out the rest of the team and a mediocre D and average goal tending is a bad way to build a team for playoff success.


    Quoting: Jah1722
    Correct me if wrong but wasn’t this the first season Marner and Matthews played together? Marner was with Tavares last season on a “shut down” line. And I know Nylander and Matthews were together a lot early in their careers.


    That is correct This is the first year they played together. and Yes some of his success is due to Matthews. But some of Matthews success is also due to Marner. look at what JT did with Marner on his wing.

    You can't argue that Marner is the 2nd best playmaker in the NHL right now behind only Mcdavid and YES his cap hit is too high. However his contract is not that bad when you look at actual salary owed. He can easily be moved and get full value back for him.

    when you compare the 2 . Marner will be owed $6.2M/per for the next 4 years after July 1st bonus is paid. Tkachuk $9M this year plus what ever they sign him for and his qualifying offer is based on the $9M salary for 21/22
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:56 p.m.
    #22
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    Quoting: kous
    That is correct This is the first year they played together. and Yes some of his success is due to Matthews. But some of Matthews success is also due to Marner. look at what JT did with Marner on his wing.

    You can't argue that Marner is the 2nd best playmaker in the NHL right now behind only Mcdavid and YES his cap hit is too high. However his contract is not that bad when you look at actual salary owed. He can easily be moved and get full value back for him.

    when you compare the 2 . Marner will be owed $6.2M/per for the next 4 years after July 1st bonus is paid. Tkachuk $9M this year plus what ever they sign him for and his qualifying offer is based on the $9M salary for 21/22


    money owed is irrelevant, cap hit is what matters.
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    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:57 p.m.
    #23
    T.D.G line.
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    Quoting: athrin
    NHL fans are also going to have to accept that most elite players do not care about winning a cup but getting as much money as they can


    yep they don't make money unless there in the cup finals. And that takes hard work.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 3:58 p.m.
    #24
    Jah1722
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    Quoting: athrin
    money owed is irrelevant, cap hit is what matters.


    That’s false. Money owed is very relevant in real life.
    Jun. 25, 2021 at 4:00 p.m.
    #25
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    Quoting: athrin
    money owed is irrelevant, cap hit is what matters.


    Not for every team and with COVID it means even more. I know from a FAN its doe snot matter but NHL owners did not become rich by throwing away money
     
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