Forums/Armchair-GM

Trades I regularly see that Philly wont accept

Created by: DH28Hockey
Initial Creation Date: Jun 29, 2021
Published: Jun 29 at 3:27
Team: 2021-22 Philadelphia Flyers
Trades
PHI
  1. Rielly, Morgan
Additional Details:
This is never happening
TOR
  1. Konecny, Travis
PHI
  1. Dumba, Matt
Additional Details:
The Wild are in a vice with the Expansion Draft and everyone knows it. Philly isn't moving their cost controlled stud young winger for a 2RD that would make them Expansion Draft vulnerable as well
MIN
    Travis Konecny
    PHI
    1. Ristolainen, Rasmus ($2,700,000 retained)
    Additional Details:
    Ristolainen is not a good hockey player. Although Patrick doesn't have a ton of value, Philly won't send him inner-conference for 1 season of a bad player
    BUF
      Nolan Patrick
      PHI
        I could see the logic in paying Seattle to take Voracek, but only at a reasonable cost. Shipping the 13OA pick to get rid of their leading scorer won't end well.
        SEA
        1. Voracek, Jakub
        2. 2021 1st round pick (PHI)
        PHI
        1. 2023 7th round pick (DET)
        The "he cleared waivers and requires a big payment to ship off" doesn't fly. Ghost had a very strong 2nd half of the season, isn't a complete pylon defensively like I see implied on here regularly, and doesn't have a complete albatross of a contract. I don't think he has a ton of value, but I think Philly would simply look to shed some money and take on another reclamation back for Ghost. I don't see them just shipping off picks to get him out of Philly
        DET
        1. Gostisbehere, Shayne
        2. 2021 2nd round pick (PHI)
        PHI
        1. Brown, Logan [RFA Rights]
        2. Zaitsev, Nikita
        3. 2021 2nd round pick (OTT)
        Additional Details:
        lol
        OTT
        1. Giroux, Claude
        PHI
          This could be any team for anything. Given the Flyers circumstances I just can't see a scenario where either of these guys move
          ANA
          1. Couturier, Sean
          2. Farabee, Joel
          PHI
            Hamilton sign-and-trade. No team is going to give up more than a 3rd for a guy who is a literal free agent
            CAR
            1. 2022 1st round pick (PHI)
            PHI
            1. Burns, Brent
            Additional Details:
            Burns is not the player the Flyers need and has a more concerning contract than Voracek, no reason Philly would do this
            SJS
              Jake Voracek.
              Buyouts
              • Ilya Bryzgalov: $0
              DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
              2021
              OTT
              PHI
              PHI
              VGK
              PHI
              PHI
              2022
              PHI
              PHI
              PHI
              PHI
              PHI
              PHI
              STL
              2023
              PHI
              PHI
              PHI
              PHI
              PHI
              PHI
              PHI
              DET
              ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
              16$81,500,000$62,831,190$0$0$18,668,810
              Left WingCenterRight Wing
              PHI
              van Riemsdyk, James
              $7,000,000
              LW
              UFA - 2
              PHI
              Hayes, Kevin
              $7,142,857
              C
              NMC
              UFA - 5
              PHI
              Aubé-Kubel, Nicolas
              $1,075,000
              RW
              RFA - 1
              PHI
              Laughton, Scott
              $3,000,000
              LW, C
              UFA - 5
              PHI
              Laczynski, Tanner
              $925,000
              C
              RFA - 1
              PHI
              Lindblom, Oskar
              $3,000,000
              LW
              RFA - 2
              PHI
              Cates, Jackson
              $925,000
              C
              RFA - 1
              Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
              PHI
              Provorov, Ivan
              $6,750,000
              LD
              UFA - 4
              PHI
              Myers, Philippe
              $2,550,000
              RD
              RFA - 2
              PHI
              Hägg, Robert
              $1,600,000
              LD
              UFA - 1
              PHI
              Braun, Justin
              $1,800,000
              RD
              UFA - 1
              TOR
              Rielly, Morgan
              $5,000,000
              LD
              NTC
              UFA - 1
              MIN
              Dumba, Matt
              $6,000,000
              RD
              NTC
              UFA - 2
              BUF
              Ristolainen, Rasmus
              $2,700,000
              RD
              UFA - 1
              OTT
              Zaitsev, Nikita
              $4,500,000
              RD
              NTC
              UFA - 3
              SJS
              Burns, Brent
              $8,000,000
              RD
              NTC
              UFA - 4
              ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
              PHI
              Frost, Morgan
              $863,333
              C
              RFA - 1

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              Jun 29 at 3:35
              #1
              Me
              Joined: Aug 2020
              Posts: 188
              Likes: 48
              We wouldn’t trade Reilly for Konecny either
              Jun 29 at 3:37
              #2
              Joined: May 2018
              Posts: 1,143
              Likes: 657
              You may be right about ghost but not to Detroit. To Detroit he is a cap dump. Find another team unless you want to pay.
              DH28Hockey, Billy12Bob, DeadWingsv2 and 1 other person liked this.
              Jun 29 at 3:39
              #3
              Joined: May 2016
              Posts: 1,331
              Likes: 743
              Ghost + 2nd is decent, Wings might want another asset given he has 2 years left
              Jun 29 at 3:40
              #4
              Thread Starter
              Joined: May 2019
              Posts: 1,125
              Likes: 454
              Quoting: RedWing9119
              You may be right about ghost but not to Detroit. To Detroit he is a cap dump. Find another team unless you want to pay.


              That's fair. I genuinely believe the Flyers would rather keep them than pay any real positive asset for a team to take him
              Jun 29 at 3:40
              #5
              Thread Starter
              Joined: May 2019
              Posts: 1,125
              Likes: 454
              Quoting: Leafsleaks123
              We wouldn’t trade Reilly for Konecny either


              Half of the Leafs ACGM teams would disagree
              RedWing9119, Mediumyeet, twelvedeadmonkies and 2 others liked this.
              Jun 29 at 3:41
              #6
              Joined: Jul 2018
              Posts: 108
              Likes: 22
              Quoting: RedWing9119
              You may be right about ghost but not to Detroit. To Detroit he is a cap dump. Find another team unless you want to pay.


              I agree with this as a Flyers fan. He has value of cap comes back.
              OldNYIfan liked this.
              Jun 29 at 3:41
              #7
              Joined: Sep 2020
              Posts: 1,962
              Likes: 1,029
              If you look at Ghost from the POV of Detroit you'll realise that the one veteran they need on LD could come from several different places.

              There's Gardiner in Carolina (who would come with a 2nd - or more). There's Martinez, Oleksiak, Del Zotto and a few others in FA (who are better). There's Vince Dunn in St. Luis who's going for pennies on the Dollar (and is much better).

              It's not like Ghost is the only option for Detroit, they're obviously going to pick what's best for the team. If that means lowballing Philly it's not because they're being rude, they're only doing what's best for Detroit.
              RedWing9119 and DeadWingsv2 liked this.
              Jun 29 at 3:43
              #8
              Joined: Jun 2018
              Posts: 822
              Likes: 296
              Yeah those Rilley to Philly trades need to stop....Philly needs RHD not more LHD
              GenXHockey, DH28Hockey, twelvedeadmonkies and 2 others liked this.
              Jun 29 at 3:43
              #9
              Thread Starter
              Joined: May 2019
              Posts: 1,125
              Likes: 454
              Quoting: Billy12Bob
              If you look at Ghost from the POV of Detroit you'll realise that the one veteran they need on LD could come from several different places.

              There's Gardiner in Carolina (who would come with a 2nd - or more). There's Martinez, Oleksiak, Del Zotto and a few others in FA (who are better). There's Vince Dunn in St. Luis who's going for pennies on the Dollar (and is much better).

              It's not like Ghost is the only option for Detroit, they're obviously going to pick what's best for the team. If that means lowballing Philly it's not because they're being rude, they're only doing what's best for Detroit.


              I totally see that POV. I just think from Philly's perspective it doesn't make sense to pay positive assets to move a guy they can still afford who just played great hockey the last 2 months of the season
              DeadWingsv2 liked this.
              Jun 29 at 3:44
              #10
              Joined: Jul 2018
              Posts: 108
              Likes: 22
              I agree with all of your assessments except Nolan Patrick does have value. It’s not number 2 overall anymore but it’s not as low as everyone thinks. Wouldn’t have ACGMs from just about every team thinking he’s fixable for their **** and a 2nd rounder. Lol. Someone will value him. I’m betting it’s Columbus.
              Jun 29 at 3:44
              #11
              Formerly Jamiepo
              Joined: Jul 2018
              Posts: 18,612
              Likes: 9,564
              Quoting: Leafsleaks123
              We wouldn’t trade Reilly for Konecny either


              I wouldn’t go that far…

              To the OP, I agree on all points.
              OldNYIfan and DH28Hockey liked this.
              Jun 29 at 3:45
              #12
              Banned
              Joined: Jun 2021
              Posts: 975
              Likes: 226
              Your Title: Philly is in same position but worse with Players that need to be protected like JVR?

              Matt dumba: The Pickle / idea on here Wild can't protect Dumba, Leave Dumba exposed is just blatantly false. For some reason, some think they can just say this over, & over,,& magically it becomes true, but it doesn't fit. There's many different ways to approach Dumba's situation,,& wild will protect him before losing him

              Dumba is believed by Wild general manager, & the gm made him a promise he will do everything to keep him a member of wild
              Jun 29 at 3:45
              #13
              Joined: Oct 2020
              Posts: 1,053
              Likes: 342
              Quoting: Leafsleaks123
              We wouldn’t trade Reilly for Konecny either


              Leafs would definitely take Konecny for Reilly if it was available to them.
              Jun 29 at 3:49
              #14
              Thread Starter
              Joined: May 2019
              Posts: 1,125
              Likes: 454
              Quoting: Clement
              Your Title: Philly is in same position but worse with Players that need to be protected like JVR?

              Matt dumba: The Pickle / idea on here Wild can't protect Dumba, Leave Dumba exposed is just blatantly false. For some reason, some think they can just say this over, & over,,& magically it becomes true, but it doesn't fit. There's many different ways to approach Dumba's situation,,& wild will protect him before losing him

              Dumba is believed by Wild general manager, & the gm made him a promise he will do everything to keep him a member of wild


              This still doesn't change the fact that:
              1) Travis Konecny is a more valuable player
              2) Matt Dumba is ideally a #3 defenseman on a truly competitive team
              3) If Minnesota finds themselves in a situation where they are able to keep Dumba after the expansion draft.... they'd have no reason to trade him anyways unless they wanted to go get a Center
              Clement liked this.
              Jun 29 at 3:52
              #15
              Joined: Jul 2018
              Posts: 108
              Likes: 22
              Quoting: DH28Hockey
              This still doesn't change the fact that:
              1) Travis Konecny is a more valuable player
              2) Matt Dumba is ideally a #3 defenseman on a truly competitive team
              3) If Minnesota finds themselves in a situation where they are able to keep Dumba after the expansion draft.... they'd have no reason to trade him anyways unless they wanted to go get a Center


              1. Keep Dumba - Expose Greenway
              2. Expose Dumba and pay Seattle not to keep him
              3. Trade him for less value given 1 & 2.

              What other options are there?
              Jun 29 at 3:54
              #16
              Absolute legend
              Joined: Oct 2017
              Posts: 21,373
              Likes: 12,926
              Three things I don't agree with here.

              1) Risto is not a bad player, he plays in a bad team. He had a solid season until he got covid, and then BUF started sinking lower than ever before. If I'm Buffalo I wouldn't trade him for Patrick 1-on-1. Statistically speaking Patrick is one of the worst players in the league.

              2) paying a 3rd for Hamilton's rights is distinctively different from an actual sign-and-trade, because in a sign-and-trade you're not acquiring a UFA, but rather a player on a contract fully in your respective teams jurisdiction. CAR has given Hamilton permission to negotiate with other teams for this exact reason so they wouldn't lose him completely for free. I'm not saying CAR is getting full value as their leverage is low, but the circumstance is very different from the likes of Hayes and Edmundson UFA rights low picks trade.

              3) Ghost is overpaid for a bottom-4 offensive D-man and during the tight cap era no one is taking him off your hands with no compensation. Imo 2nd rounder compensation is not far from reasonable, but if Flyers is not willing to do such move then I suppose Shayne's staying there.
              Jun 29 at 3:55
              #17
              Joined: May 2021
              Posts: 61
              Likes: 14
              What is the value of Philippe Myers?
              Jun 29 at 3:56
              #18
              Joined: Jun 2019
              Posts: 148
              Likes: 27
              Agree with all takes as a flyers fan. Especially Coots and Farabee. Both should be untouchable unless part of a package for a superstar, which again seems unlikely given coots has 1 year left. Farabee should not be moved at all, he very well could be exactly what the flyers have been looking for the past decade in a pure goal scorer.
              OldNYIfan liked this.
              Jun 29 at 3:57
              #19
              Joined: Aug 2020
              Posts: 2,772
              Likes: 1,937
              Edited Jun 29 at 4:10
              The Seattle and Detroit deals are probably pretty close. You talk about Voracek and Ghost like anybody would want to have them, but they have to move if Philly wants to make changes. That’s a cap dump, specifically Voracek at his salary and age.

              You might not like the deals presented but most are pretty reasonable starting points even if they won’t happen.
              OldNYIfan liked this.
              Jun 29 at 4:06
              #20
              Joined: Aug 2020
              Posts: 2,772
              Likes: 1,937
              Quoting: TagesMissedShots
              What is the value of Philippe Myers?


              On his current deal, I think you’re looking at a 2nd and mid tier prospect. I think Bennett is a reasonable trade comp.
              Jun 29 at 4:07
              #21
              First NY Then LA
              Joined: Jun 2018
              Posts: 20,358
              Likes: 10,564
              I agree that Dumba for Konecny is a no-fly, but I haven't seen any serious Wild guys propose that. What I'd be interested in knowing is whether you think the Flyers would exchange the 13th overall selection for Dumba and the 25th overall selection (the Pittsburgh pick Minnesota owns).
              jnowariak liked this.
              Jun 29 at 4:11
              #22
              Thread Starter
              Joined: May 2019
              Posts: 1,125
              Likes: 454
              Quoting: jnowariak
              The Seattle and Detroit deals are probably pretty close. You talk about Voracek and Ghost like anybody would want to have them, but they have to move if Philly wants to make changes. That’s a cap dump, specifically Voracek at his salary and age.

              You I might not like the deals presented but most are pretty reasonable starting points even if they won’t happen.


              I think you're missing an important point here: raw value doesn't always mean a good trade, there has to be a fit. As a matter of fact, I'd argue a handful of these trades are technically "fair" but they aren't good fits.

              In the case of Ghost and Voracek, my point isn't that I think they have a lot of value, they don't. My point is using premium assets to get them off the books when they are still good players is something Philly really shouldn't do
              OldNYIfan liked this.
              Jun 29 at 4:15
              #23
              Joined: Aug 2020
              Posts: 2,772
              Likes: 1,937
              Quoting: OldNYIfan
              I agree that Dumba for Konecny is a no-fly, but I haven't seen any serious Wild guys propose that. What I'd be interested in knowing is whether you think the Flyers would exchange the 13th overall selection for Dumba and the 25th overall selection (the Pittsburgh pick Minnesota owns).


              The Konecny talk is all driven by the Russo speculation, but the Wild don’t need another winger. Especially one at that cap hit when there will be good, cheaper, options available in FA (not a knock on Konecny). But the idea that Dumba is worth a 10 spot jump really sells him low, and MIN can’t loose a trade like that.
              OldNYIfan liked this.
              Jun 29 at 4:16
              #24
              PlusMinus is stupid
              Joined: May 2018
              Posts: 2,455
              Likes: 2,200
              Quoting: DH28Hockey
              I totally see that POV. I just think from Philly's perspective it doesn't make sense to pay positive assets to move a guy they can still afford who just played great hockey the last 2 months of the season

              Thank you for being reasonable. FWIW, I agree that Philly shouldn't take a bath to move him, but in a flat cap world, the reality is they'll have to pay to move his contract, so they're better off just keeping him imo
              Jun 29 at 4:16
              #25
              Thread Starter
              Joined: May 2019
              Posts: 1,125
              Likes: 454
              Quoting: OldNYIfan
              I agree that Dumba for Konecny is a no-fly, but I haven't seen any serious Wild guys propose that. What I'd be interested in knowing is whether you think the Flyers would exchange the 13th overall selection for Dumba and the 25th overall selection (the Pittsburgh pick Minnesota owns).


              This would be entirely contingent on how the rest of the market looks. Philly really, really needs to be looking to add a 1RD, and Dumba just isn't at that level. I can't see them using that cap allocation and the 13OA chip on anything other than a true 1RD unless they were absolutely certain there were none available.

              Having said that, if that were the case I think they'd accept
              OldNYIfan liked this.
               
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