Forums/NHL Trades

(ARI/NYI) - Future Considerations for Ladd, 2021 2nd, 2022 2nd, 2023 conditional 3rd

Who won the trade?
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Jul 17 at 7:16
#51
TAMPA SUCKS
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,123
Likes: 367
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Well he’s been amazing this off-season. Not so much last year.


Yep
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Jul 17 at 8:08
#52
CHI NYI
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4,255
Likes: 2,057
Both teams win here imo, although the Isles not giving up a 1st to move him is a massive plus for them tbh
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Jul 17 at 8:11
#53
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 18
Likes: 4
Quoting: CapFriendly


Quoting: CapFriendly

Lou with this much cap space with a already very good team kinda worries me. Great return for yokes though
Quoting: CapFriendly


Quoting: CapFriendly
Jul 17 at 8:27
#54
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 851
Likes: 473
Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid
dude cap space is king in the flat salary cap world

how else would the islanders have been mugged for all of their lunch money


Wasn't Ladd on LTIR already?

He hasn't played in 2 years.

So how did the affect cap space?
Jul 17 at 8:32
#55
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 39
Likes: 15
Quoting: drewjenkins
Wasn't Ladd on LTIR already?

He hasn't played in 2 years.

So how did the affect cap space?


Ladd is healthy. He just sucks and isn't even worth playing for your AHL team.
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Jul 17 at 8:38
#56
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 851
Likes: 473
Quoting: Isles69420
Ladd is healthy. He just sucks and isn't even worth playing for your AHL team.


lmao learn something new every day.
Jul 17 at 10:32
#57
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,826
Likes: 839
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Well he’s been amazing this off-season. Not so much last year.


Even last year wasn't a bad off-season, especially when combined with the deadline. The one questionable move was Toews, but Lou was backed into a corner there. After that, it's been one strong transaction after another.
Jul 17 at 10:53
#58
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11,887
Likes: 8,733
Quoting: Hockyluv21
Even last year wasn't a bad off-season, especially when combined with the deadline. The one questionable move was Toews, but Lou was backed into a corner there. After that, it's been one strong transaction after another.


Trading a near Norris-level defenseman for 2 2nds instead of someone like Nick Leddy is a pretty massive blunder if you ask me, no matter how bad your cap situation is.
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Jul 17 at 10:55
#59
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,826
Likes: 839
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Trading a near Norris-level defenseman for 2 2nds instead of someone like Nick Leddy is a pretty massive blunder if you ask me, no matter how bad your cap situation is.


And yet, the Isles still forced Tampa to play one more ECF game than the year prior. Maybe it wasn't the most efficient possible move there was to get under the cap, but Leddy had a nice rebound season (enough to get a late 2nd the off season afterwards!), and when you look at how the team performed overall, I think their overall outlook for the next decade with Lou/Trotz is still incredibly bright.
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Jul 17 at 10:58
#60
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11,887
Likes: 8,733
Quoting: Hockyluv21
And yet, the Isles still forced Tampa to play one more ECF game than the year prior. Maybe it wasn't the most efficient possible move there was to get under the cap, but when you look at how the team performed overall, I think their overall outlook is still incredibly bright.


Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the Isles aren’t in a great position right now to be contenders for years. I’m just saying he made the worst trade of the offseason last year. Both can be true. I mean the Oilers traded away Gretzky in 1988 and still won the Stanley Cup in 1990.
Jul 17 at 11:04
#61
GM CRIME DAWG
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,423
Likes: 865
Edited Jul 17 at 11:17
Isles win in the "here and now/just win mode" part of the trade and Yotes win the "future" aspect...

In a week of moves, NYI went from 17 NHLers signed and only US$6M in Cap Space last week to currently @ 18 NHLers signed & US$12Mil in space...
Good GM moves when you're painted in the corner
Jul 17 at 11:59
#62
Bernier
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 7,253
Likes: 3,693
Quoting: BeterChiarelli
I'm voting Arizona because I'm tired of seeing that franchise flounder and the fact they've had the wherewithal to acquire more draft capital suggests good things. I can see them trading into the first round next weekend.


I'm tired that they still are in Arizona. I don't even know if coyotes fans exist lol.
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Jul 18 at 2:07
#63
You know nothing JS
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,745
Likes: 2,061
Quoting: Hockyluv21
Surprisingly low price for taking on Ladd's contract. Considering that Carolina got pick #13 for taking on the Marleau buyout, this is a really good deal for the Isles.


^Smart comment right here^

The maths dont add up on the value of dead money !

Marleau : 6M caphit (4M in salary) = 1 low 1st
Ladd: 2x5.5M caphit (8M in salary) = 2 low 2nds

What am I not getting?!
Jul 18 at 2:25
#64
Isles7
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 12,222
Likes: 5,298
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Trading a near Norris-level defenseman for 2 2nds instead of someone like Nick Leddy is a pretty massive blunder if you ask me, no matter how bad your cap situation is.


The Toews trade was awful - the isles took calls on Leddy last offseason but Trotz valued Leddy over Toews and didn’t want him traded. Coaches shouldn’t have that much pull.
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Jul 18 at 4:44
#65
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,464
Likes: 1,798
ARI is still a joke of a franchise. I can count on one hand the number of solid management decisions they've made over the last 5 years. Actually, I can count on one finger: Drafting and signing Jacob Chychrun at a relatively low AAV. But, that's far outweighed by years of terrible drafting, trades, UFA signings, and bad RFA extensions, like Keller.
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Jul 18 at 4:48
#66
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,464
Likes: 1,798
Quoting: jpsnow13
^Smart comment right here^

The maths dont add up on the value of dead money !

Marleau : 6M caphit (4M in salary) = 1 low 1st
Ladd: 2x5.5M caphit (8M in salary) = 2 low 2nds

What am I not getting?!


And Saad was dealt during a flat cap era. The price for dumping him should've been higher when you consider how much more valuable csap space is today than it was a couple years ago. This was a total fleecing.
Jul 18 at 8:12
#67
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,826
Likes: 839
Quoting: jpsnow13
^Smart comment right here^

The maths dont add up on the value of dead money !

Marleau : 6M caphit (4M in salary) = 1 low 1st
Ladd: 2x5.5M caphit (8M in salary) = 2 low 2nds

What am I not getting?!


One thing that may be different in the two situations is that Toronto was way further against the salary cap when the trade was made. Isles traded Leddy for a 2nd rounder before this deal was finished, so they had far greater leverage than Toronto did. There also was a hugely toxic 35+ buyout on Marleau's contract that saved zero cap hit whatsoever, unlike the Ladd situation. I still think the Isles did incredibly well here.
Jul 18 at 8:50
#68
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11,887
Likes: 8,733
Quoting: Brian2016
ARI is still a joke of a franchise. I can count on one hand the number of solid management decisions they've made over the last 5 years. Actually, I can count on one finger: Drafting and signing Jacob Chychrun at a relatively low AAV. But, that's far outweighed by years of terrible drafting, trades, UFA signings, and bad RFA extensions, like Keller.


Not to mention the fact that their owner is a cheap **** who doesn’t pay his constituents, and doesn’t understand that running a hockey team in Arizona means you’ll lose money.
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Jul 18 at 10:39
#69
You know nothing JS
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,745
Likes: 2,061
Quoting: Hockyluv21
One thing that may be different in the two situations is that Toronto was way further against the salary cap when the trade was made. Isles traded Leddy for a 2nd rounder before this deal was finished, so they had far greater leverage than Toronto did. There also was a hugely toxic 35+ buyout on Marleau's contract that saved zero cap hit whatsoever, unlike the Ladd situation. I still think the Isles did incredibly well here.


Sorry but his isnt it.

Leverage is comparable and Ladd cant be bought out neither ( 6M in signing bonuses).
Jul 18 at 12:00
#70
Sensible Commentary
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 871
Likes: 465
Quoting: drewjenkins
Wasn't Ladd on LTIR already?

He hasn't played in 2 years.

So how did the affect cap space?
i mean, i haven't exactly been keeping up with Andrew Ladd's status, but, supposing he was mostly injured for the last 2 years, LTIR is still not the most favorable situation you want to find yourself in. it's "Extra Cap Space™" with a whole lotta caveats. as a GM, you don't want to find yourself having to use LTIR if you don't absolutely have to. it's still preferable to dump the contract altogether.
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Jul 18 at 12:06
#71
Sensible Commentary
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 871
Likes: 465
Quoting: capfriendlyaccount
Didn't cost him too much. Net loss of a conditional 2nd and 3rd to clear up 11 mil. That's a lot less than I would have expected.
let's take a look at the list of scenarios under which Lou could have gotten rid of Ladd's contract, in order of desirability:
1) trade Ladd to the Coyotes, get draft picks back
2) trade Ladd to the Coyotes, get no draft picks back
3) trade Ladd to the Coyotes and sweeten the deal with draft picks, get draft picks back
4) trade Ladd to the Coyotes and sweeten the deal with draft picks, get no draft picks back
5) buy out Ladd

1) didn't happen because Ladd has no trade value. 2) didn't happen because Ladd's contract is too onerous for that, and he isn't just some AHL tweener schmuck. you'd think 3) would have been the idea, but, apparently, it didn't happen. 4) is what actually happened, and, well, 5) is a terrible option for Ladd's contract.

sure, Lou didn't burn a 1st-round pick (and i doubt Bill Armstrong would've gotten a 1st out of Lou, anyway), but asset management 101 says "having to burn extra assets to rid yourself of a toxic one is a bad situation to find yourself in." you can see that what happened was next to the worst-case scenario for dumping Ladd's contract. this is a Pyrrhic victory, at best, for the Islanders. "draft picks are magic beans" blah blah blah that's the sunk cost fallacy; Lou still burned three picks to get rid of Ladd's contract.
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Jul 18 at 2:30
#72
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 5,377
Likes: 1,254
I hope Ladd at least plays in enough games to reach the 1'000 game mark.
Jul 18 at 2:34
#73
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 5,377
Likes: 1,254
Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid
let's take a look at the list of scenarios under which Lou could have gotten rid of Ladd's contract, in order of desirability:
1) trade Ladd to the Coyotes, get draft picks back
2) trade Ladd to the Coyotes, get no draft picks back
3) trade Ladd to the Coyotes and sweeten the deal with draft picks, get draft picks back
4) trade Ladd to the Coyotes and sweeten the deal with draft picks, get no draft picks back
5) buy out Ladd

1) didn't happen because Ladd has no trade value. 2) didn't happen because Ladd's contract is too onerous for that, and he isn't just some AHL tweener schmuck. you'd think 3) would have been the idea, but, apparently, it didn't happen. 4) is what actually happened, and, well, 5) is a terrible option for Ladd's contract.

sure, Lou didn't burn a 1st-round pick (and i doubt Bill Armstrong would've gotten a 1st out of Lou, anyway), but asset management 101 says "having to burn extra assets to rid yourself of a toxic one is a bad situation to find yourself in." you can see that what happened was next to the worst-case scenario for dumping Ladd's contract. this is a Pyrrhic victory, at best, for the Islanders. "draft picks are magic beans" blah blah blah that's the sunk cost fallacy; Lou still burned three picks to get rid of Ladd's contract.


2 Draft picks, no chance in hell Ladd plays 1 game in the 22-23 season, to garner another 3rd Rd pick. Even the Yotes can't handle the cap structure to bring that contract up from the minors, where he'll play or retire.
Jul 18 at 4:42
#74
Sensible Commentary
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 871
Likes: 465
Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
2 Draft picks, no chance in hell Ladd plays 1 game in the 22-23 season, to garner another 3rd Rd pick. Even the Yotes can't handle the cap structure to bring that contract up from the minors, where he'll play or retire.
well, if Bill Armstrong's not dumb, he'll get Ladd to play 1 game in 2022-23 to get that pick. pretty easy condition to fulfill and also not that hard to have Ladd come up for 1 game. play him in the first game of the season, say, "oh, well, we're just seeing if he can still handle the NHL," and then put him on waivers and send him down.
Jul 18 at 6:32
#75
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
Likes: 6
Quoting: Isles777
Ladd should have cost a 1st + 2nd to move. Two late 2nds and a 3rd is great for the isles


Not to mention they're only guaranteed two of those picks.
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