Forums/Armchair-GM

Marc Bergevins moral compass

Created by: sensonfire
Initial Creation Date: Jul 24, 2021
Published: Jul 24 at 9:37
Team: 2021-22 Montreal Canadiens
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
Mailloux, Logan3$925,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Kotkaniemi, Jesperi2$3,000,000
Lehkonen, Artturi1$2,200,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Deangelo, Anthony1$1,000,000
Ho-Sang, Joshua1$750,000
Hoffman, Mike4$6,000,000
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Voynov, Slava1$750,000
Miller, Mitchell3$925,000
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MTL
  1. Virtanen, Jake
VAN
  1. 2022 2nd round pick (MTL)
MTL
  1. Kuznetsov, Evgeny
WSH
  1. 2022 1st round pick (MTL)
  2. 2023 1st round pick (MTL)
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  • Karl Alzner: $1,958,333
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2022
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
2023
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
2024
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$77,369,227$597,561$1,475,000$4,130,773
Left WingCenterRight Wing
MTL
Toffoli, Tyler
$4,250,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
MTL
Suzuki, Nick
$863,333
C, RW
RFA - 1
MTL
Caufield, Cole
$880,833
RW, C
RFA - 2
Hoffman, Mike
$6,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
WSH
Kuznetsov, Evgeny
$7,800,000
C
NTC
UFA - 4
MTL
Gallagher, Brendan
$6,500,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 6
MTL
Lehkonen, Artturi
$2,200,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
MTL
Kotkaniemi, Jesperi
$3,000,000
C, LW
RFA - 1
MTL
Anderson, Josh
$5,500,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 6
MTL
Byron, Paul
$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
MTL
Evans, Jake
$750,000
C, RW
RFA - 1
VAN
Virtanen, Jake
$2,550,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
MTL
Edmundson, Joel
$3,500,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3
MTL
Petry, Jeff
$6,250,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 4
MTL
Price, Carey
$10,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 5
MTL
Chiarot, Ben
$3,500,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 1
MTL
Romanov, Alexander
$894,167
LD/RD
RFA - 1
MTL
Allen, Jake
$2,875,000
G
UFA - 2
Voynov, Slava
$750,000
Deangelo, Anthony
$1,000,000
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
MTL
Kulak, Brett
$1,850,000
LD
UFA - 1
MTL
Weber, Shea
$7,857,143
RD
UFA - 5
MTL
Drouin, Jonathan
$5,500,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 2

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Jul 24 at 9:41
#1
Hurricane Waddell
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,935
Likes: 1,317
Does attacking MBs ‘moral compass’ make you feel better about yourself, the situation for the victim, or the situation for the player?

You are allowed to be conflicted by the draft pick, but I don’t think we should be attacking the Habs or MB for wanting a talented player who they seem to be committed to helping mature on and off the ice.
Habs4ever liked this.
Jul 24 at 9:43
#2
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 8,665
Likes: 3,000
Pretty bad to lump ho-sang in with these awful people
CMcAvoy73 liked this.
Jul 24 at 9:44
#3
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 5,917
Likes: 2,055
Quoting: Caniac555
Does attacking MBs ‘moral compass’ make you feel better about yourself, the situation for the victim, or the situation for the player?

You are allowed to be conflicted by the draft pick, but I don’t think we should be attacking the Habs or MB for wanting a talented player who they seem to be committed to helping mature on and off the ice.


I think you can attack this pick on three different levels.
1. Morality. I’m not saying the kid should be done with hockey or anything, but given that he asked out of the draft, seems like he’s cognizant that he has some growing away from hockey to do before being able to focus on his professional career.
2. Optics. It’s a business. I think this hurts Montreal’s brand. If i was an owner i would have said, “stay away. Plenty of other good players to draft, and the optics of this are bad. Don’t want to deal with it.”
3. Hockey. I think they could have gotten him in the 4th. Silly pick. He certainly would have been sitting there at their next selection.
sensonfire liked this.
Jul 24 at 9:46
#4
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 1,049
Quoting: Caniac555
Does attacking MBs ‘moral compass’ make you feel better about yourself, the situation for the victim, or the situation for the player?

You are allowed to be conflicted by the draft pick, but I don’t think we should be attacking the Habs or MB for wanting a talented player who they seem to be committed to helping mature on and off the ice.


Does it look like I'm conflicted by the draft pick?
Jul 24 at 9:47
#5
Habs4ever
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 847
Using your measuring stick, Hyman, Robinson, Ceci, Gaudette, Kane, Seguin, O’Reilly, The other Kane, Marchand all did stupid things between the ages 15 to 20. Heck I was extremely immature at age 17.

Thank goodness for forgiveness and adults willing to show the way. Then when I coached I had players with drugs, alcohol, girls in hotel rooms and I never kicked one player off the team but decided to love them and show them a better way to live.

According to your measuring stick, I would have to kick one of my sons out of my house when he did something stupid 4 years ago. It’s a good thing he didn’t have you as a father.
Caniac555, DougieGilmour, Canadianfan543 and 1 other person liked this.
Jul 24 at 9:48
#6
Hurricane Waddell
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,935
Likes: 1,317
No, you seem pretty steadfast in your idea of bringing in high character players.

Quoting: sensonfire
Does it look like I'm conflicted by the draft pick?
Jul 24 at 9:52
#7
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 281
Likes: 55
Quoting: Caniac555
Does attacking MBs ‘moral compass’ make you feel better about yourself, the situation for the victim, or the situation for the player?

You are allowed to be conflicted by the draft pick, but I don’t think we should be attacking the Habs or MB for wanting a talented player who they seem to be committed to helping mature on and off the ice.

Anything that involves the words criminal and victim should supersede future wins for a club. Lost what little respect for this organization last night. Should what the kid did kill the rest of his life... no. But the NHL as a whole could have and should have stepped off him for a year. He even asked for that.

After last night, I can see MTL going for the guy that likes to start s#*t with his own teammates. Class act, MTL.
Bmersereau73 and sensonfire liked this.
Jul 24 at 9:59
#8
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 1,049
Quoting: Caniac555
No, you seem pretty steadfast in your idea of bringing in high character players.


Character sometimes matters every once in a while.

You should know.

If you did, you wouldn't be defending the pick.
Jul 24 at 10:06
#9
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 1,049
Quoting: Habs4ever
Using your measuring stick, Hyman, Robinson, Ceci, Gaudette, Kane, Seguin, O’Reilly, The other Kane, Marchand all did stupid things between the ages 15 to 20. Heck I was extremely immature at age 17.

Thank goodness for forgiveness and adults willing to show the way. Then when I coached I had players with drugs, alcohol, girls in hotel rooms and I never kicked one player off the team but decided to love them and show them a better way to live.

According to your measuring stick, I would have to kick one of my sons out of my house when he did something stupid 4 years ago. It’s a good thing he didn’t have you as a father.


According to your measuring stick, you wouldn't mind forcing your players to relive those experiences all over again.

I'd love to know your name and the teams you've coached, so I can look you up on the internet.
Jul 24 at 10:13
#10
Habs4ever
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 847
Quoting: sensonfire
According to your measuring stick, you wouldn't mind forcing your players to relive those experiences all over again.

I'd love to know your name and the teams you've coached, so I can look you up on the internet.


I won’t make that mistake ever again. Last January I opened an account using my real name. About 80% were okay but 20% were pure hate and evil in their comments and mocking. Some even contacted an OHL team that I hadn’t been with since 2007. Another contacted a team in the Q, I hadn’t been with since 2000. So sadly I will remain anonymous from now on. I have an excellent life and want to keep the hateful people away.
sensonfire liked this.
Jul 24 at 10:18
#11
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 281
Likes: 55
Quoting: Habs4ever
Using your measuring stick, Hyman, Robinson, Ceci, Gaudette, Kane, Seguin, O’Reilly, The other Kane, Marchand all did stupid things between the ages 15 to 20. Heck I was extremely immature at age 17.

Thank goodness for forgiveness and adults willing to show the way. Then when I coached I had players with drugs, alcohol, girls in hotel rooms and I never kicked one player off the team but decided to love them and show them a better way to live.

According to your measuring stick, I would have to kick one of my sons out of my house when he did something stupid 4 years ago. It’s a good thing he didn’t have you as a father.

Also as a father, I agree that you can't condemn a kid for making a mistakes. He made a mistake. But if there is no consequence, there is no lesson. There is a giant list of things that were "ok" back in the day, but that is not the world we live in today. That girl gets to deal with her exposure, fear, ect. of others seeing her like that (I hear there are people out there that are kinda private about that) for the rest of her life. Waiting one year to chase his dream at the next level... wow what a price. Its not like anyone is making him homeless.
sensonfire liked this.
Jul 24 at 10:21
#12
Habs4ever
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 847
Quoting: LittleBuddha
Also as a father, I agree that you can't condemn a kid for making a mistakes. He made a mistake. But if there is no consequence, there is no lesson. There is a giant list of things that were "ok" back in the day, but that is not the world we live in today. That girl gets to deal with her exposure, fear, ect. of others seeing her like that (I hear there are people out there that are kinda private about that) for the rest of her life. Waiting one year to chase his dream at the next level... wow what a price. Its not like anyone is making him homeless.


She’s being very well compensated. Logan has agreed to 18 months of counselling, supervision while living with his billets, community hours and private counselling.
Jul 24 at 10:24
#13
Dubas is clueless
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 340
Likes: 109
Reading the comments of all the online woke warriors is hilarious. I wonder if they have to work up the outrage before they post?
Jul 24 at 10:27
#14
Dubas is clueless
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 340
Likes: 109
Quoting: Habs4ever
Using your measuring stick, Hyman, Robinson, Ceci, Gaudette, Kane, Seguin, O’Reilly, The other Kane, Marchand all did stupid things between the ages 15 to 20. Heck I was extremely immature at age 17.

Thank goodness for forgiveness and adults willing to show the way. Then when I coached I had players with drugs, alcohol, girls in hotel rooms and I never kicked one player off the team but decided to love them and show them a better way to live.

According to your measuring stick, I would have to kick one of my sons out of my house when he did something stupid 4 years ago. It’s a good thing he didn’t have you as a father.


Most of these people are kids themselves and don’t have the maturity or life experiences to understand the difference between youthful stupidity and actual harden criminals.
Habs4ever liked this.
Jul 24 at 10:29
#15
Hurricane Waddell
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,935
Likes: 1,317
I didn’t defend the pick. Rather, I commented that we should defer comments about the Habs and MB’s “moral compassion “ until we see if they give this kid support to be a better person.

You’re allowed to have your thoughts and opinions, just as I do as well. But let’s not judge moral compass based on a draft pick.

Quoting: sensonfire
Character sometimes matters every once in a while.

You should know.

If you did, you wouldn't be defending the pick.
Jul 24 at 10:30
#16
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 281
Likes: 55
Quoting: Habs4ever
She’s being very well compensated. Logan has agreed to 18 months of counselling, supervision while living with his billets, community hours and private counselling.


Thank you for posting that. Damn. Ok. I still think that MTL should have taken a flyer on this kid. He was good enough to go in the 1st this year, logic says, he should be good enough to go even higher next.
Jul 24 at 10:30
#17
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 1,049
Quoting: Habs4ever
She’s being very well compensated. Logan has agreed to 18 months of counselling, supervision while living with his billets, community hours and private counselling.


Some of these things would be a step in the right direction and it's just the beginning to making things right.

Assuming all of these things are taking place.


My point is that there should be zero tolerance amongst all NHL teams for this kind of stuff.

Zero.

No team should be an exception to this rule.

Not even my Ottawa Senators.
Jul 24 at 10:40
#18
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 281
Likes: 55
Quoting: DougieGilmour
Most of these people are kids themselves and don’t have the maturity or life experiences to understand the difference between youthful stupidity and actual harden criminals.


I'm 48 and and a father a 5 (4boys 1girl). There are two of us posting that are "not thrilled with the pick." Do you want to continue with that thought line? And, nope, not all worked up, just chillin with morning joe.
Jul 24 at 10:41
#19
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 1,049
Quoting: Caniac555
I didn’t defend the pick. Rather, I commented that we should defer comments about the Habs and MB’s “moral compassion “ until we see if they give this kid support to be a better person.

You’re allowed to have your thoughts and opinions, just as I do as well. But let’s not judge moral compass based on a draft pick.


What about giving his former 18 year old GF in Sweden the support to help get her life back?

I think we should defer comments about the Habs and MB's moral compassion until we see if they are willing to help make that happen.



You’re allowed to have your thoughts and opinions, just as I do as well.

But let's not judge your moral compass based on forgetting about the victim when typing your comments to my post.

At least not yet anyway.
Jul 24 at 11:09
#20
Habs4ever
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 847
Quoting: LittleBuddha
Thank you for posting that. Damn. Ok. I still think that MTL should have taken a flyer on this kid. He was good enough to go in the 1st this year, logic says, he should be good enough to go even higher next.


And probably to another team!
Jul 24 at 11:10
#21
Habs4ever
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 847
Quoting: sensonfire
Some of these things would be a step in the right direction and it's just the beginning to making things right.

Assuming all of these things are taking place.


My point is that there should be zero tolerance amongst all NHL teams for this kind of stuff.

Zero.

No team should be an exception to this rule.

Not even my Ottawa Senators.


Then 4 players off your senators should be in jail, using your parameters!
Jul 24 at 11:22
#22
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 281
Likes: 55
Quoting: Habs4ever
And probably to another team!


And we were doing so well... That is exactly the attitude of future wins over doing what is right, what is wrong with this whole situation and the NHL.
Jul 24 at 12:06
#23
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 1,049
Quoting: Habs4ever
Then 4 players off your senators should be in jail, using your parameters!


When you say 4 players off the senators should be in jail, I'm guessing you're referring to these players:

Austin Watson
Nikita Zaitsev

You'd have to fill me in on the other two because I'm not as familiar with the other two.



Austin Watson was involved in a 2018 incident where there was domestic violence and heavy drinking with his GF at the time.

It was an extremely bitter and toxic relationship that was obviously not made in heaven.

But yet for some reason, his GF took responsibility for what happened months later.

https://www.tsn.ca/watson-s-girlfriend-says-june-incident-not-an-act-of-domestic-violence-1.1191314



Zaitsev's situation was also about an extremely bitter and toxic relationship.

He divorced and fought with his wife for custody over their children that is probably still going on to this day.

Zaitsev is not without sin.

But the more I look at his situation, it's a "he said-she said" struggle with his wife that is complicated and requires context.

https://www.markerzone.com/news/?10939



In Logan Mailloux's case, it is cut and dry.

The situations involving Zaitsev and Watson are not even comparable.



Mailloux asked not to be drafted.

The Habs drafted him anyway ... with a first round pick.



My parameters show that Mailloux shouldn't have been drafted.

It's a far cry from being in jail.

If you were being honest, you would be admitting that and not putting words in my mouth.
Jul 24 at 1:15
#24
Habs4ever
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 847
Quoting: sensonfire
When you say 4 players off the senators should be in jail, I'm guessing you're referring to these players:

Austin Watson
Nikita Zaitsev

You'd have to fill me in on the other two because I'm not as familiar with the other two.



Austin Watson was involved in a 2018 incident where there was domestic violence and heavy drinking with his GF at the time.

It was an extremely bitter and toxic relationship that was obviously not made in heaven.

But yet for some reason, his GF took responsibility for what happened months later.

https://www.tsn.ca/watson-s-girlfriend-says-june-incident-not-an-act-of-domestic-violence-1.1191314



Zaitsev's situation was also about an extremely bitter and toxic relationship.

He divorced and fought with his wife for custody over their children that is probably still going on to this day.

Zaitsev is not without sin.

But the more I look at his situation, it's a "he said-she said" struggle with his wife that is complicated and requires context.

https://www.markerzone.com/news/?10939



In Logan Mailloux's case, it is cut and dry.

The situations involving Zaitsev and Watson are not even comparable.



Mailloux asked not to be drafted.

The Habs drafted him anyway ... with a first round pick.



My parameters show that Mailloux shouldn't have been drafted.

It's a far cry from being in jail.

If you were being honest, you would be admitting that and not putting words in my mouth.


Regarding your Watson story, it’s amazing what $250K in your bank account will do!
 
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