Forums/Armchair-GM

Based on much Debate

Created by: Drai_By_shooting
Initial Creation Date: Aug 4, 2021
Published: Aug 4 at 11:11
Team: 2021-22 Edmonton Oilers
Team Explanation
I dont entirely agree with all the heat Koskinen gets. His 2019-20 season numbers were virtually identical to that offseasons most sought after goaltender Jacob Markstrom who signed a 6x6 deal with Calgary. A .917 save percentage is nothing to snuff at. Sure his glove hand has moments and sometimes he let in the games first shot/goal, but the numbers speak for themselves. This past season if he hadn't played every minute of the teams first 13 games including a couple back to backs in there his numbers would of been better. Not many goalies if any could of carried that workload. Once Smith came back his numbers went back up. Eliminate the season opening stretch and they were almost exactly the same as the year before. Ullmark just signed a 4yr x 5mil contract with lesser numbers and a history of injuries, something that hasn't plagued Mikko. I think Oilers fans just love to hate. The decade plus of darkness soured alot of us. And we often place more focus on the negatives then the positives. Which is a shame. Its chased a fair amount of good players out of town. I think its time to change. But yet i still am fine moving Koskinen or anyone if it means growth up front or on the backend.

Also i tried my best to keep Klefbom off LTIR to accrue additional cap space for deadline deals.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Yamamoto, Kailer2$1,750,000
Skinner, Stuart2$850,000
Benson, Tyler2$850,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Benn, Jordie1$1,000,000
Trades
1.
EDM
  1. Brown, Connor
  2. Forsberg, Anton
Additional Details:
See my Previous post "Best 3rd line in NHL" for said past debates/discussions on this trade. This fits the timelines of both teams better.
OTT
  1. Koskinen, Mikko
  2. Lavoie, Raphael
  3. 2023 1st round pick (EDM)
  4. 2023 4th round pick (EDM)
2.
EDM
  1. Hinostroza, Vinnie
Additional Details:
Cooper Marody, the AHLs leading goal scorer last season deserves a chance. He will get that opportunity in Buffalo. Buffalos cap space is impressive. They are entering full rebuild. Gathering Picks and prospects the next few years while using said space to their advantage is going to be the route to follow
BUF
  1. Kassian, Zack
  2. Turris, Kyle
  3. Marody, Cooper [RFA Rights]
  4. Tullio, Tyler [Reserve List]
  5. 2024 2nd round pick (EDM)
  6. 2024 3rd round pick (EDM)
Buyouts
  • James Neal: $1,916,667
  • Andrej Sekera: $1,500,000
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Milan Lucic: $750,000 (13%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2022
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
2023
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
2024
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$79,238,968$669,339$907,500$2,261,032
Left WingCenterRight Wing
EDM
Hyman, Zach
$5,500,000
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 7
EDM
McDavid, Connor
$12,500,000
C
UFA - 5
OTT
Brown, Connor
$3,600,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
EDM
Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan
$5,125,000
LW, C
NMC
UFA - 8
EDM
Draisaitl, Leon
$8,500,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 4
EDM
Yamamoto, Kailer
$1,750,000
RW, C
RFA - 1
EDM
Foegele, Warren
$2,750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
EDM
Ryan, Derek
$1,250,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
EDM
Puljujärvi, Jesse
$1,175,000
RW
RFA - 1
EDM
Archibald, Josh
$1,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
EDM
McLeod, Ryan
$834,167
C
RFA - 1
BUF
Hinostroza, Vinnie
$1,050,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
EDM
Nurse, Darnell
$5,600,000
LD
UFA - 1
EDM
Barrie, Tyson
$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 3
EDM
Smith, Mike
$2,200,000
G
UFA - 2
EDM
Keith, Duncan
$5,538,462
LD
NMC
UFA - 2
EDM
Ceci, Cody
$3,250,000
RD
UFA - 4
OTT
Forsberg, Anton
$900,000
G
UFA - 1
Benn, Jordie
$1,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
EDM
Bouchard, Evan
$863,333
RD
RFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
EDM
Lagesson, William
$725,000
LD
RFA - 1
EDM
Klefbom, Oscar
$4,167,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 2
Taxi Squad
EDM
Stalock, Alex
$785,000 ($0)
G
UFA - 1
EDM
Russell, Kris
$1,250,000 ($125,000)
LD/RD
UFA - 1
EDM
Shore, Devin
$850,000 ($0)
LW, C, RW
UFA - 2

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Aug 4 at 1:15
#26
Dach is Elite
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,435
Likes: 1,362
Quoting: Drai_By_shooting
Thanks for tuning in and ruining my dreams Pierre Dorion


If it were to happen this how I’d view it

Edmonton Oilers Connor Brown

Ottawa Senators Kailer Yamamoto Warren Foegele 2022 first
sensonfire liked this.
Aug 4 at 1:15
#27
sensonfire
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 3,965
Likes: 1,245
Quoting: Drai_By_shooting
Lets be honest here, since his callup Jan1, 2020 Yamamoto has 47 points in 81 games. He wouldnt be in the trade. End of discussion. You know that, i know that. Hes a kid. Brown is not. Like i just posted. Brown will walk for nothing when ottawa cant afford his ask. With Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris and Stutzle and others needing contracts before and at the same time. Take the necessary growing puzzle pieces and move along. Plenty of others on this post and my other posts seem to think its just fine. Be realistic not a total fanboy. I honestly think if Dorion is presented with that offer (and you can keep forsberg), that he'd take it. I have no issues tossing in another smaller piece to push it through. But dont get crazy silly with the asks lol



We have more cap space than any other team

Of course, Ottawa can afford his ask.

What are you talking about??



What evidence do you have to suggest I'm a total fanboy?

I'll wait.



The fact that the 1st is for 2023 and not 2022 alone would result in Dorion refusing.



I said:

1. Turn the 2023 1st into a 2022 1st.

2. Swap out Lavoie for Yamamoto

3. No lottery protection (there isn't any in the original trade).


You said 1 hour ago:

1. I have zero problems doing that.

2. Done.

3. No take backs lol


You said in your last comment 1 hour later:

1. Be realistic not a total fanboy.

2. But dont get crazy silly with the asks lol


o_O
Aug 4 at 1:19
#28
Simpleton
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 895
Likes: 306
I think the concerns regarding Edmonton's goaltending are based on Mike Smith's age and Mikko Koskinen's struggles with consistency.

While Smith has proven streaky throughout his career, he was among the top-5 goaltenders in the league last season. He may experience a bit of a regression, but he is in great condition and there is no reason to believe he is not capable of offering above average goaltending next season, if his workload is reasonable. Koskinen suffered inconsistencies last season, and that belies the stretches during which he was a very effective goaltender. Oiler fans should hope that Smith stays healthy, therefore allowing Koskinen to carry a workload he is comfortable with. The big Finn is playing out the final year of his contract and has to understand that his GM has made several attempts to move him in favor of another goaltender. Perhaps those factors will give him a bit of extra motivation to overcome his past struggles.
Drai_By_shooting liked this.
Aug 4 at 1:20
#29
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 15,027
Likes: 4,514
Quoting: Drai_By_shooting
Well i was just going to put future considerations as the return lol and just clicked Vinny on my way out as a cheap return. Could of been a bucket of pucks for all i care


That's a pretty bed deal for the Oilers. Turris can be buried for the last year of his deal and Kassian has a tiny bit of value (ironically, for the reasons you mentioned regarding Yamamoto) and won't require 2 prospects + 2 picks to move.

But I love your username.
Aug 4 at 1:33
#30
Thread Starter
Cole Harbour Boy
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 224
Likes: 47
Edited Aug 4 at 1:50
Quoting: sensonfire
We have more cap space than any other team

Of course, Ottawa can afford his ask.

What are you talking about??



What evidence do you have to suggest I'm a total fanboy?

I'll wait.



The fact that the 1st is for 2023 and not 2022 alone would result in Dorion refusing.



I said:

1. Turn the 2023 1st into a 2022 1st.

2. Swap out Lavoie for Yamamoto

3. No lottery protection (there isn't any in the original trade).


You said 1 hour ago:

1. I have zero problems doing that.

2. Done.

3. No take backs lol


You said in your last comment 1 hour later:

1. Be realistic not a total fanboy.

2. But dont get crazy silly with the asks lol


o_O


You have that cap space only in this moment. Tkachuk and Batherson need deals NOW. SUBTRACT that from the 29ish mil. And then Norris, Formenton , Paul, Brown, Branstrom, next offseason and then Stutzle , Bernard-Docker, Pinto, Zub and others . All Before or at the same time as Brown. Are they going to let the youth walk to sign Brown who will be turning 30 a few months into that season. I mean how long have you watched the Sens and Melnyk at work recently. Take your blinders off. He will be gone. Via trade or by his own accord. The sens are my 2nd Favorite team from the moment they came into the league. I grew up in Ottawa. Ive watched the Sens dismantled time and time again. Its a sad movie burned into my memory bank. The deal helps both my teams. Could care less if YOU like it or not lol. I think Dorion would pull the trigger. Like i said, Keep Forsberg and EDM could add an additional smaller piece. But it makes perfect sense for both franchises in their current states. And there was never any mention at any point of lottery protection?? I dont care which 1st. I deemed the 23 more valuable so included. And Yams is small and i personally would not be upset with moving on from him. BUTTTTT it wouldn't happen. Theyd never include him. And yes, you are NOT being realistic. Your responses prove your fandom. Not a shot. Every person on here thinks theyre a GM and they know better. When in actual fact ive never seen a posting with Universal approval. Not once. And likely will never happen. Every team has fans that complain about pretty much every deal real or in this case, Fake !!
Aug 4 at 1:40
#31
Thread Starter
Cole Harbour Boy
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 224
Likes: 47
Quoting: CD282
That's a pretty bed deal for the Oilers. Turris can be buried for the last year of his deal and Kassian has a tiny bit of value (ironically, for the reasons you mentioned regarding Yamamoto) and won't require 2 prospects + 2 picks to move.

But I love your username.


A small portion of Turris can be buried. And for the ****e team Chicago was , i noticed Vins plus 2 and dozen points in 17 games. But yes id prefer a bigger player in return. Maybe the final year of Colin Miller. I mean id sooner keep kass . Like the guy. Hate the contract for 3 years. 1 i could stomach. And Thanks on the username props
Aug 4 at 1:54
#32
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 15,027
Likes: 4,514
Quoting: Drai_By_shooting
A small portion of Turris can be buried. And for the ****e team Chicago was , i noticed Vins plus 2 and dozen points in 17 games. But yes id prefer a bigger player in return. Maybe the final year of Colin Miller. I mean id sooner keep kass . Like the guy. Hate the contract for 3 years. 1 i could stomach. And Thanks on the username props


A small portion? His salary is $1.65M and $1.125M of that (68%) can be buried. That leaves just $525k cap hit for 1 year - not worth paying someone else to take IMO. I'd rather have him there as injury cover.
Aug 4 at 2:04
#33
Thread Starter
Cole Harbour Boy
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 224
Likes: 47
Quoting: IconicHawk
If it were to happen this how I’d view it

Edmonton Oilers Connor Brown

Ottawa Senators Kailer Yamamoto Warren Foegele 2022 first


Some of you guys are funny. I may need to slap on some depends from all the pee tinkling out from this laughter.
Last 2 seasons
C.Brown
127GP, 77pts (-5) .6 PPG AGE 27
K.Yamamoto
79 GP, 47pts (+26) .59 PPG AGE 22.

It would NEVER EVER happen
Aug 4 at 2:09
#34
Thread Starter
Cole Harbour Boy
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 224
Likes: 47
Quoting: CD282
A small portion? His salary is $1.65M and $1.125M of that (68%) can be buried. That leaves just $525k cap hit for 1 year - not worth paying someone else to take IMO. I'd rather have him there as injury cover.


Id sooner be free of him entirely, he was nothing but a liability every time he stepped foot on the ice last year. But to each his own. And it isnt really a paying for him to be moved deal. Its more Kassians contract. Just tossed him in. 2 birds, 1 stone. Id sooner spend a bit of the savings on a Bozak type for the year
Aug 4 at 2:12
#35
sensonfire
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 3,965
Likes: 1,245
Quoting: Drai_By_shooting
You have that cap space only in this moment. Tkachuk and Batherson need deals NOW. SUBTRACT that from the 29ish mil. And then Norris, Formenton , Paul, Brown, Branstrom, next offseason and then Stutzle , Bernard-Docker, Pinto, Zub and others . All Before or at the same time as Brown. Are they going to let the youth walk to sign Brown who will be turning 30 a few months into that season. I mean how long have you watched the Sens and Melnyk at work recently. Take your blinders off. He will be gone. Via trade or by his own accord. The sens are my 2nd Favorite team from the moment they came into the league. I grew up in Ottawa. Ive watched the Sens dismantled time and time again. Its a sad movie burned into my memory bank. The deal helps both my teams. Could care less if YOU like it or not lol. I think Dorion would pull the trigger. Like i said, Keep Forsberg and EDM could add an additional smaller piece. But it makes perfect sense for both franchises in their current states. And there was never any mention at any point of lottery protection?? I dont care which 1st. I deemed the 23 more valuable so included. And Yams is small and i personally would not be upset with moving on from him. BUTTTTT it wouldn't happen. Theyd never include him. And yes, you are NOT being realistic. Your responses prove your fandom. Not a shot. Every person on here thinks theyre a GM and they know better. When in actual fact ive never seen a posting with Universal approval. Not once. And likely will never happen. Every team has fans that complain about pretty much every deal real or in this case, Fake !!


You don't need to write a whole novel to whine and complain smile
Aug 4 at 2:16
#36
Thread Starter
Cole Harbour Boy
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 224
Likes: 47
Quoting: sensonfire
You don't need to write a whole novel to whine and complain smile


Its so much more fun for the readers 🤣
sensonfire liked this.
Aug 4 at 2:24
#37
Thread Starter
Cole Harbour Boy
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 224
Likes: 47
Quoting: uphere
I think the concerns regarding Edmonton's goaltending are based on Mike Smith's age and Mikko Koskinen's struggles with consistency.

While Smith has proven streaky throughout his career, he was among the top-5 goaltenders in the league last season. He may experience a bit of a regression, but he is in great condition and there is no reason to believe he is not capable of offering above average goaltending next season, if his workload is reasonable. Koskinen suffered inconsistencies last season, and that belies the stretches during which he was a very effective goaltender. Oiler fans should hope that Smith stays healthy, therefore allowing Koskinen to carry a workload he is comfortable with. The big Finn is playing out the final year of his contract and has to understand that his GM has made several attempts to move him in favor of another goaltender. Perhaps those factors will give him a bit of extra motivation to overcome his past struggles.


Here's to hoping it doesn't have the opposite effect the second a bad glove side goal sneaks in early in his first game. All your points could be weighing on him mentally. Some crumble, some thrive. Lets see which he is
Aug 4 at 2:29
#38
Simpleton
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 895
Likes: 306
Quoting: Drai_By_shooting
Here's to hoping it doesn't have the opposite effect the second a bad glove side goal sneaks in early in his first game. All your points could be weighing on him mentally. Some crumble, some thrive. Lets see which he is


Yep.
Aug 4 at 4:37
#39
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,317
Likes: 3,152
Quoting: Drai_By_shooting
Why you posted the 4 game cameo as a rookie is beyond me. Then his 1st year on north American ice in a decade should be taken with a grain of salt. If you exclude his overworked 13 game stretch to start last season, his numbers would look much similar to 2019-20. So what seasons were actually a fluke now? See what i did there. Easily reversed your entire debate. I think my version may be the one closer to the truth then yours. The 2018-19 Oilers were not very good. In fact our defense the past few seasons has been highly suspect defensively. I believe the better version of Koskinen is closer to what he actually is. What do you think he would of looked like behind Tampas Defence?


I bet he wouldn’t be much better if he was in a Tampa jersey. I posted all the seasons, because that’s what he played. He’s not as good as people think. His 2019-2020 season was a fluke. If you can’t repeat, then it’s a fluke. Maybe you should try and see if he has ever repeated it. Oh wait… he hasn’t ahah, that’s funny. I guess it’s because he’s not as good as people think. Yours is not closer to the truth because it’s opinion based hahah! Funny that you think there is only one opinion.
Aug 4 at 4:40
#40
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,317
Likes: 3,152
Quoting: CD282
Your assumptions are WAY off. Anaheim, Buffalo and Vancouver (and Calgary) have not been markedly worse defensively than Edmonton, and yet those goalies are showing similar stats to Koskinen. You need to fact check yourself.

5v5 shots against per 60, 2019-20 - 2020-21 (rank is based on the top 35 goalies by TOI)
22. Markstrom: 30.65
23. Ullmark: 30.7
25. Gibson: 31.07
35. Koskinen: 32.34

5v5 High Danger shots against per 60, 2019-20 - 2020-21
7. Ullmark: 7.03
19. Markstrom: 7.68
29. Koskinen: 8.50
32. Gibson: 8.78

Koskinen actually faced the most shots of the four and had a lot of high danger chances against, too. So your whole premise is shot to pieces here. Now lets look at how each goalie fared.

5v5 save percentage, 2019-20 - 2020-21 (rank is based on the top 35 goalies by TOI)
3. Ullmark: .932
19. Markstrom: .921
25. Gibson: .916
27. Koskinen: .915

5v5 High Danger save percentage, 2019-20 - 2020-21
12. Koskinen: .833
20. Markstrom: .821
22. Ullmark: .819
24. Gibson: .814

Koskinen is certainly in the mix with these starters as far as his stats go. All these guys get paid more, too.


I could actually care less about the advanced stats honestly. And that is just my opinion, he’s never been the best, and never will be anything other than a backup. He’s not better than those guys. If people actually used the eye test with the stats, they would see how good players really are.
Aug 4 at 4:46
#41
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 15,027
Likes: 4,514
Quoting: Nhl_oilers
I could actually care less about the advanced stats honestly. And that is just my opinion, he’s never been the best, and never will be anything other than a backup. He’s not better than those guys. If people actually used the eye test with the stats, they would see how good players really are.

These aren't advanced stats. Your opinion is useless to anyone if its not based on factual evidence.
Drai_By_shooting liked this.
Aug 4 at 5:09
#42
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,317
Likes: 3,152
Quoting: CD282
These aren't advanced stats. Your opinion is useless to anyone if its not based on factual evidence.


In your opinion maybe.
Aug 4 at 5:34
#43
Serf
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,986
Likes: 1,239
Quoting: alpine4life
and that's a pretty solid NO from OTT...
You want C.Brown, we want Yamamoto AND Puljujärvi


That sort of defeats the purpose of the trade. This is meant to help Edmonton now, and they are willing to give a RW prospect nearly as good as those two, and maybe better, and who will be on the same timeline as JBD, Sanderson, and Kleven, and the 1st gives Ottawa a lot of flexibility in moving up in the first round of the 2022 draft.

I contend that Lavoie and the 1st could be as valuable as Puljujarvi and Yamamoto in 2-3 seasons, which is irrelevant since I doubt they trade them for Brown, but they could trade Lavoie and the first.
Drai_By_shooting liked this.
Aug 4 at 5:40
#44
Serf
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,986
Likes: 1,239
Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
There is no reason or incentive for Ottawa to pick up a Koskinen dump in a Brown trade. Much like the Sabres being unwilling to include a Skinner or Okposo dump in an Eichel trade, I cant imagine much of an appetite for bringing that sort of asset in while moving a valuable player out. If you want to give a 1st and a prospect for Brown, be my guest but your Koskinen cap dump should be aimed at Buffalo or Arizona.


The thinking here is, if Tkachuk and Batherson get $10MM-$12MM, and losing the $3.5MM for Brown, having Koskinen's cap for a year actually helps Ottawa stay above the floor enough to make other moves. It's just one season, and next season Norris, Formenton, and Brannstrom get their raises when Koskinen comes off the books.
Drai_By_shooting liked this.
Aug 4 at 5:41
#45
Serf
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,986
Likes: 1,239
Quoting: Drai_By_shooting
I have zero problems doing that. The 2023 First rounder is MUCH more valuable with 2 potential Generational talents sitting at the top, in whats being deemed the deepest draft since McDavids in 2015. As for Yamamoto, id also gladly swap him. He got crushed in the playoffs by the big boys. I'd sooner keep the 6'4" fast, sharp shooter in Lavoie. Done. No take backs lol


Don't listen to that guy, lol
Drai_By_shooting liked this.
Aug 4 at 5:51
#46
Thread Starter
Cole Harbour Boy
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 224
Likes: 47
Quoting: sensibleguy
Don't listen to that guy, lol


I gave up on him. He doesn't like facts he thinks his opinion is the end all
Aug 4 at 5:58
#47
Serf
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,986
Likes: 1,239
Quoting: Drai_By_shooting
I gave up on him. He doesn't like facts he thinks his opinion is the end all


I have him on ignore, and that 282 guy as well.

You'll get good feedback from Alpine and PLDGY, as well as others that haven't commented yet.
Aug 5 at 2:24
#48
Serf
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,986
Likes: 1,239
The Sens side of this trade Link

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/500578?post_id=2605313
Aug 5 at 6:56
#49
Thread Starter
Cole Harbour Boy
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 224
Likes: 47
Quoting: sensibleguy
The Sens side of this trade Link

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/500578?post_id=2605313


Hey that was fun. Thanks for the link. And that Owen fellow is lost
sensibleguy liked this.
Aug 6 at 1:28
#50
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 878
Likes: 292
Quoting: sensibleguy
The thinking here is, if Tkachuk and Batherson get $10MM-$12MM, and losing the $3.5MM for Brown, having Koskinen's cap for a year actually helps Ottawa stay above the floor enough to make other moves. It's just one season, and next season Norris, Formenton, and Brannstrom get their raises when Koskinen comes off the books.


Idk just seems like the trade causes more problems than it fixes. Why trade Brown now and have to pick a Koskinen cap dump up when you could just not trade Brown at all? Or at the very least trade him next season when there’s one year left on his deal and Melnyk’s not stuck paying 4m for nothing 🤷🏽‍♂️

From Edmonton’s perspective I get it, upgrade on the wing where they need it and the cap hit is manageable. Dump Koskinens contract and bring back a goalie who might even be better with almost no cap hit. Pay futures that likely won’t touch the NHL for 2-5 years.

Realistically that 2023 first is the swing piece and I’d put money in it turning out more like the first the Sens got for Duchene than the first they got for Karlsson. Not a bad trade by any means but not my favorite, that’s all
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Remove Option
Submit Poll