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Bye KK Hello Jack

Created by: MakingHistory
Team: 2021-22 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Aug. 28, 2021
Published: Aug. 28, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
1.
MTL
  1. 2022 1st round pick (CAR)
  2. 2022 3rd round pick (CAR)
CAR
  1. Kotkaniemi, Jesperi [RFA Rights]
2.
MTL
  1. Eichel, Jack
  2. Miller, Colin ($1,875,000 retained)
BUF
  1. Armia, Joel
  2. Guhle, Kaiden
  3. Kulak, Brett
  4. Lehkonen, Artturi
  5. 2022 1st round pick (MTL)
  6. 2022 1st round pick (CAR)
  7. 2022 3rd round pick (ANA)
  8. 2022 3rd round pick (CAR)
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2022
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the STL
2023
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
2024
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$70,712,977$597,561$1,475,000$10,787,023
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$10,000,000$10,000,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,125,000$2,125,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$537,500$538K)
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$880,833$880,833 (Performance Bonus$300,000$300K)
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000
LW, RW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$875,000$875,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,343,750$2,343,750
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$10,500,000$10,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,750,000$1,750,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$2,000,000$2,000,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,875,000$2,875,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$637,500$638K)
LD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$7,857,143$7,857,143
RD
UFA - 5

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Aug. 28, 2021 at 7:04 p.m.
#1
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There is no way you think this is an actual plausible trade.

a MTL trade for Eichel HAS to have Suzuki or Caufield
Aug. 28, 2021 at 7:05 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: Barzal_Beast
There is no way you think this is an actual plausible trade.

a MTL trade for Eichel HAS to have Suzuki or Caufield


no it doesn't. it has to have four firsts of total value and for a rebuilding team - futures are worth more than burning entry level years on players anyway. we have more picks to offer now. HELLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOO JACK!!!!!!!!!!!
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Aug. 28, 2021 at 7:09 p.m.
#3
Formerly Jamiepo
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I don’t know what was going through Waddell’s head. Sure the Habs wanted to keep KK but a 1st and 3rd is close to fair value and at 6m he has negative value now. Just shot himself in the foot.
Aug. 28, 2021 at 7:10 p.m.
#4
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Sabres will want Suzuki and Caufield for Eichel. If they lose Kotkaniemi, all leverage is lost for the Habs
Aug. 28, 2021 at 7:26 p.m.
#5
Roster Architect
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Habs fan need to realize that they're still not getting Eichel. Any off for Eichel would have likely started with Kotkaneimi because Suzuki and Caufield are off limits. Not with Kotkaneimi gone, Montreal doesn't have anything interesting to offer Buffalo.

The rumour that the value that Buffalo is looking for of "the equivalent of 4 1st round picks" gets blown outta proportion in this site - the key word in that quote is "equivalent". Buffalo isn't just looking for 4 1st round picks and call it a day - they want young players that are NHL quality. Any offer from any team will start with a young player with NHL experience and still has upside, otherwise Buffalo has no interest at all. From Montreal, if Kotkaneimi isn't matched then the only other 2 pieces that would likely start the conversation are Suzuki and Caufield and both are completely off limits from Montreal's standpoint (I can 100% guarantee that). There is no offer from Montreal that will entice Buffalo to make a deal, it's just Habs fans trying to overhype the situation because they can.

Side note: I believe it's still in the CBA (it could have been updated but I'm not sure), that teams are not allowed to trade players that have been tendered an offer sheet by another team for a minimum of 1 year to the day the offersheet was signed - thus making Montreal ineligible to even trade Kotkaneimi in an Eichel deal for at least a year. This could be the way that Carolina throws back at Montreal for their offersheet to Aho before.
Aug. 28, 2021 at 7:31 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: GenXHockey
I don’t know what was going through Waddell’s head. Sure the Habs wanted to keep KK but a 1st and 3rd is close to fair value and at 6m he has negative value now. Just shot himself in the foot.


Wouldn't say Kotkaneimi has negative value at all. Still a young player that can develop and has shown to be a playoff performer - just because a player is overpaid doesn't mean they have negative value. The offersheet is also only 1 year in term so he won't be making that after next season if he doesn't perform, he'd likely sign a bridge deal with more term and less AAV at that point. It's actually not a bad move by Waddell at all.
Aug. 28, 2021 at 7:37 p.m.
#7
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: TrueCanuck
Wouldn't say Kotkaneimi has negative value at all. Still a young player that can develop and has shown to be a playoff performer - just because a player is overpaid doesn't mean they have negative value. The offersheet is also only 1 year in term so he won't be making that after next season if he doesn't perform, he'd likely sign a bridge deal with more term and less AAV at that point. It's actually not a bad move by Waddell at all.


At 6m… yes. Negative value. I am 100% sure of this. Unfortunately yes he will make 6m after next season. His QO is 6.1m.

Now he most likely doesn’t get qualified but as far as value goes he has none.
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Aug. 28, 2021 at 8:04 p.m.
#8
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: TrueCanuck
Habs fan need to realize that they're still not getting Eichel. Any off for Eichel would have likely started with Kotkaneimi because Suzuki and Caufield are off limits. Not with Kotkaneimi gone, Montreal doesn't have anything interesting to offer Buffalo.

The rumour that the value that Buffalo is looking for of "the equivalent of 4 1st round picks" gets blown outta proportion in this site - the key word in that quote is "equivalent". Buffalo isn't just looking for 4 1st round picks and call it a day - they want young players that are NHL quality. Any offer from any team will start with a young player with NHL experience and still has upside, otherwise Buffalo has no interest at all. From Montreal, if Kotkaneimi isn't matched then the only other 2 pieces that would likely start the conversation are Suzuki and Caufield and both are completely off limits from Montreal's standpoint (I can 100% guarantee that). There is no offer from Montreal that will entice Buffalo to make a deal, it's just Habs fans trying to overhype the situation because they can.

Side note: I believe it's still in the CBA (it could have been updated but I'm not sure), that teams are not allowed to trade players that have been tendered an offer sheet by another team for a minimum of 1 year to the day the offersheet was signed - thus making Montreal ineligible to even trade Kotkaneimi in an Eichel deal for at least a year. This could be the way that Carolina throws back at Montreal for their offersheet to Aho before.


Quoting: TrueCanuck
Habs fan need to realize that they're still not getting Eichel. Any off for Eichel would have likely started with Kotkaneimi because Suzuki and Caufield are off limits. Not with Kotkaneimi gone, Montreal doesn't have anything interesting to offer Buffalo.

The rumour that the value that Buffalo is looking for of "the equivalent of 4 1st round picks" gets blown outta proportion in this site - the key word in that quote is "equivalent". Buffalo isn't just looking for 4 1st round picks and call it a day - they want young players that are NHL quality. Any offer from any team will start with a young player with NHL experience and still has upside, otherwise Buffalo has no interest at all. From Montreal, if Kotkaneimi isn't matched then the only other 2 pieces that would likely start the conversation are Suzuki and Caufield and both are completely off limits from Montreal's standpoint (I can 100% guarantee that). There is no offer from Montreal that will entice Buffalo to make a deal, it's just Habs fans trying to overhype the situation because they can.

Side note: I believe it's still in the CBA (it could have been updated but I'm not sure), that teams are not allowed to trade players that have been tendered an offer sheet by another team for a minimum of 1 year to the day the offersheet was signed - thus making Montreal ineligible to even trade Kotkaneimi in an Eichel deal for at least a year. This could be the way that Carolina throws back at Montreal for their offersheet to Aho before.


Quoting: TrueCanuck
Habs fan need to realize that they're still not getting Eichel. Any off for Eichel would have likely started with Kotkaneimi because Suzuki and Caufield are off limits. Not with Kotkaneimi gone, Montreal doesn't have anything interesting to offer Buffalo.

The rumour that the value that Buffalo is looking for of "the equivalent of 4 1st round picks" gets blown outta proportion in this site - the key word in that quote is "equivalent". Buffalo isn't just looking for 4 1st round picks and call it a day - they want young players that are NHL quality. Any offer from any team will start with a young player with NHL experience and still has upside, otherwise Buffalo has no interest at all. From Montreal, if Kotkaneimi isn't matched then the only other 2 pieces that would likely start the conversation are Suzuki and Caufield and both are completely off limits from Montreal's standpoint (I can 100% guarantee that). There is no offer from Montreal that will entice Buffalo to make a deal, it's just Habs fans trying to overhype the situation because they can.

Side note: I believe it's still in the CBA (it could have been updated but I'm not sure), that teams are not allowed to trade players that have been tendered an offer sheet by another team for a minimum of 1 year to the day the offersheet was signed - thus making Montreal ineligible to even trade Kotkaneimi in an Eichel deal for at least a year. This could be the way that Carolina throws back at Montreal for their offersheet to Aho before.


Kk pushes the needle absolutely nowhere for Eichel. Habs have plenty of other prospects they could add. Eichel is injured and Habs need someone now. So I would say Hertl is a better target.
Aug. 28, 2021 at 8:06 p.m.
#9
MyHabsteam1975
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Jack Eichel trade with the canadiens is a joke. Laughable.
Aug. 28, 2021 at 8:59 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: GenXHockey
At 6m… yes. Negative value. I am 100% sure of this. Unfortunately yes he will make 6m after next season. His QO is 6.1m.

Now he most likely doesn’t get qualified but as far as value goes he has none.


Having "no value" is significantly different than having "negative value"... the negative value guys are generally guys that don't have the ability to play in the league in the league anymore and are overpaid... ie Lucic, Neal, etc. Just because a guy is significantly overpaid, doesn't mean they have negative value. Guys like Jones, Marner, Toews, Panarin, etc are all significantly overpaid (all of the ones I listed besides Panarin are overpaid by about $2M which is the same as Kotkaneimi) but they don't have negative value.

As far as next season, who knows if Kotkaneimi is offered a qualifying offer or not. I expect Montreal to actually match the offersheet because if they let Kotkaneimi walk, they have virtually no dynamic centres (I consider Suzuki a much better winger) on the roster, and it sets them back quite a bit in their build. Bergevin wouldn't move Kotkaneimi for Laine, I doubt he lets him walk for a couple of picks when it's only a 1 year contract.
Aug. 28, 2021 at 9:03 p.m.
#11
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: TrueCanuck
Having "no value" is significantly different than having "negative value"... the negative value guys are generally guys that don't have the ability to play in the league in the league anymore and are overpaid... ie Lucic, Neal, etc. Just because a guy is significantly overpaid, doesn't mean they have negative value. Guys like Jones, Marner, Toews, Panarin, etc are all significantly overpaid (all of the ones I listed besides Panarin are overpaid by about $2M which is the same as Kotkaneimi) but they don't have negative value.

As far as next season, who knows if Kotkaneimi is offered a qualifying offer or not. I expect Montreal to actually match the offersheet because if they let Kotkaneimi walk, they have virtually no dynamic centres (I consider Suzuki a much better winger) on the roster, and it sets them back quite a bit in their build. Bergevin wouldn't move Kotkaneimi for Laine, I doubt he lets him walk for a couple of picks when it's only a 1 year contract.


Would be the worst decision of MB’s career… and he has made some bad ones. Like I said. He has no value because his value is negative at 6m.
Aug. 28, 2021 at 9:08 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: GenXHockey
Kk pushes the needle absolutely nowhere for Eichel. Habs have plenty of other prospects they could add. Eichel is injured and Habs need someone now. So I would say Hertl is a better target.


Which better prospects have better value than Kotkaneimi? None that would interest Buffalo. Basing an offer of what Buffalo needs in their organization, Montreal has very little to offer that's better than Kotkanemi. Buffalo mainly needs high end forward prospects (likely more centre than wing), and right handed defence prospects - so that cuts out all of the following that people seem to think have value:
Kaiden Guhle
Alex Romanov
Jan Mysak
Mattias Norlinder
Ryan Poehling
Luke Tuch
Cayden Primeau

So outside of Suzuki, Kotkaneimi, and Caufield, who does that leave? Josh Brook is the only valuable name left and he wouldn't be the centre piece in a deal. It'd likely be one of the big 3 names + Brook + 1st round pick just to get things started.

Montreal just doesn't have the pieces to get an Eichel deal done.
Aug. 28, 2021 at 9:11 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: GenXHockey
Would be the worst decision of MB’s career… and he has made some bad ones. Like I said. He has no value because his value is negative at 6m.


Its a 1 year deal to a young developing centre. Is it overpaid? Absolutely. Are you overreacting? Absolutely. It wouldn't be a negative value because a team can renegotiate as of January 1, 2022 and then they could have him long term at a different dollar amount. A 1 year deal is very rarely a "bad deal" or "negative value" on a player. On a 21 year old centre that went 3rd overall and has shown playoff success, that is definitely not one of those rare situations.
Aug. 28, 2021 at 9:16 p.m.
#14
Formerly Jamiepo
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Edited Aug. 28, 2021 at 9:22 p.m.
Quoting: TrueCanuck
Its a 1 year deal to a young developing centre. Is it overpaid? Absolutely. Are you overreacting? Absolutely. It wouldn't be a negative value because a team can renegotiate as of January 1, 2022 and then they could have him long term at a different dollar amount. A 1 year deal is very rarely a "bad deal" or "negative value" on a player. On a 21 year old centre that went 3rd overall and has shown playoff success, that is definitely not one of those rare situations.


Kk going at 3oa was another mistake by MB. Why would kk negotiate a lower deal when he is owed 6m or go ufa?

If Montreal signed KK to this deal I’m sure you wouldn’t be defending it.
Aug. 28, 2021 at 9:25 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: GenXHockey
Kk going at 3oa was another mistake by MB. Why would kk negotiate a lower deal when he is owed 6m or go ufa?


Players prefer term over a 1 year higher salary. He could very easily be offered a $4M x 3 years offer next contract and take it. That's more guaranteed money than a 1 year $6M offer.

Taking Kotkaneimi at #3 was definitely not a mistake. Montreal was in desperate need of centres at the time (and still are), and they took the beat one available. Not other centre in the draft has made an impact at the NHL yet. So not taking him doesn't make sense. And losing him now for a couple of picks when you still need centre's isn't smart either.
Aug. 29, 2021 at 1:14 a.m.
#16
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: TrueCanuck
Players prefer term over a 1 year higher salary. He could very easily be offered a $4M x 3 years offer next contract and take it. That's more guaranteed money than a 1 year $6M offer.

Taking Kotkaneimi at #3 was definitely not a mistake. Montreal was in desperate need of centres at the time (and still are), and they took the beat one available. Not other centre in the draft has made an impact at the NHL yet. So not taking him doesn't make sense. And losing him now for a couple of picks when you still need centre's isn't smart either.


No, you take the 6m this year and either the 6m or ufa the season after.

Number one rule of drafting. Don’t draft positional. Take the best player available. Players take years to develop. If you need a centre go get an nhl centre. A centre prospect won’t fill the hole.

Giving up a 1st and 3rd for a 6m KK is just absurd.
 
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