Sens wouldn't give up anywhere close to that much. Logan Brown may be on the outs because the organization is stupid, but Zub was their most consistent D last year and isn't going to be used in addition to some picks to get a risk like Tarasenko. I'd say Zub is pretty much untouchable given he was the only regular D on the team who isn't a trainwreck in his own zone.

Seattle isn't doing that. Ottawa probably doesn't, either, but we all know how I feel about Brown and Zub, while pretty good defensively, turns the puck over in the zone way too much.

And if we did somehow have brain damage and trade for Brown, there's no chance in hell he'd be centering a line with Bozak on the wing. Bozy is one of the best faceoff men/shutdown C's in the league and Brown is god-awful in the circle/slow as molasses in pursuit.

I'm just not sure why that makes sense for Seattle.

Zub doesn’t turn the puck over

Giveaways are best viewed in relation to teammates, and not as a specific number when comparing players from different teams, because it’s a metric that can be heavily influenced by the record keeper, because it’s opinion based. So if an arena has a record keeper who sees more giveaways than another record keeper, it will skew the numbers for the home team who plays half their games with that record keeper, but visiting teams only have it slightly affect their numbers. Conversely, if a record keeper sees fewer giveaways, the entire home team benefits. This is why you see entire teams with either very good or very poor giveaways rates.

For the record, he had nearly five times as many giveaways (2.5/60) as takeaways (.56/60) last season. And for my taste, they tend to come in the wrong places, which is why I specified the D-zone turnovers.

Ratio isn’t a good measure either, as a player might be good or bad at giveaways, and either good or bad at takeaways, they are different situations. A giveaway is a bad pass, a stick skill, whereas a takeaway is often about anticipation, and that involves not only hockey sense, but more importantly positioning. So a defenceman could have solid stick skills, and decent hockey sense, but if they play a more defensive position game, they’ll get fewer takeaways. It isn’t all about board battles.

Ratio isn't a good measure of possession aptitude? Mmmnokaythen.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that he played against weak opposition most of the time. Coughing up 2.5/60 against weak competition as a low-event D-man is not good. But again, I specified D-zone turnovers, which is where many of his occur. Those hurt the most.

Compared to his teammates, only JBD and Mete were significantly better. Understanding how Zub plays helps to understand why he isn’t bad at giveaways.

1- Heh. And you think being relatively okay compared to teammates while playing for the Sens isn't bad?

2- Last try: I specified giveaways at his own end of the rink, man. In that regard, considering the type of "do no harm" player he is, against softer competition, in low TOI, he's bad when it comes to high pain giveaways. At least for my taste. Sorry.

Soucy plays 3rd pair minutes

I get it, you don’t like Zub, that’s fine, just say that, you don’t need to make up reasons.

And by "make up reasons" you mean give a fully detailed, perfectly reasonable explanation, complete with stats? He's not even as good as Bortuzzo, but costs nearly twice as much. So, yeah, sorry I don't want to waste cap we don't have to waste on a clear downgrade. Or something.

You wrote



Which isn’t true, it’s not only rhetoric, it’s blatantly false.



Brannstrom was sheltered, but Zub played against average QoC. Chabot and Zaitsev played against the other teams best. Playing against average QoC is not weak, it’s standard for 2nd pair defencemen.

(sigh)

You like to read selectively, huh? I said "most of the time". His AVERAGE opposition (shown in the chart) was still a touch below average, which means it's still quite possible (if not more likely than not) to play against weak competition a majority of the time. At absolute worst, you can charge me with a slight exaggeration. Calling it "blatantly false" is, well, blatantly false.

Look, man, I don;t have anything major against Zub. He's a decent 3rd pairing/maybe sometimes 2nd pairing guy on a baaaaaad team. I just don't want him on my currently considerably better team, and I have a very specific reason for that. That's it, and no amount of cherry picking minute details from my point while ignoring the meat of it is going to change that. So sue me.

sensibleguy - there is not point in arguing with mokumboi. Even when proven wrong - he can't admit it. I'd just move on...

That’s fine, just say you don’t want him.

All this erroneous postering is unnecessary. I’m not going back and explaining every error, although I’ve explained quite a bit already about giveaways, ratios, QoC, and rhetoric. This one was quick and easy because of the graph, but you still have this need to say below average, whereas I see average. Brannstrom was below average. Having Zub’s bubble just slightly below the line is still average, and could not be “weak…most of the time”.

Oh, and sigh right back at you, lol

Okay, thanks. We have Sens fans that are like that as well. Cheers

I literally just admitted to Chooch about being wrong about something today. And it was certainly not the first time I did so on CF.

No chance Ottawa does this as Artem Zub is way too important for now.

Sure, his name might sound a bit unknown to people who don't follow and watch every Sens games but that guy basically turned over the season by himself. SUre, there was other factors that happened too, like playing Erik Brannstrom or less Stepan/Paquette/Coburn/etc but Zub change the whole complexity of the defense and it eventually became a strength later in the season after it was historically bad in the first 15 games.

I hope Zub will be kept after his current contract, which is only a year before Zaitsev's contract is over.

I don't know how much value Tarasenko has with his age, injury history, AAV and the context with his trade demands but Logan Brown + 2nd + 3rd already has some good value